Bernie is going to die. It's just not going to be on the timetable some of you want. Once he falls over or steps aside, we'll see how whomever is next does. I'm betting they don't do as well, but we'll have to wait and see.
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Bernie is going to die. It's just not going to be on the timetable some of you want. Once he falls over or steps aside, we'll see how whomever is next does. I'm betting they don't do as well, but we'll have to wait and see.
exactlyQuote:
Originally Posted by BDunnell
facebook, twitter and other social media are conduits to the making money and not money making vehicles themselves
access to their huge numbers means you can direct folks to your website,. and in the case of F1 hopefully a superb website ( which is currently severely lacking)
Social media are like heavily traveled roads and advertising opportunities that should interest and then lead the masses to your site.
What Bernie and f1 are saying is; "I'll build this great resort and amusement park, but could care less if there are no roads, ships or trains going to it, and no airport either.
But there is a landing strip for private jets and a heliport for the rich and famous"
yeah, that business model is doomed to fail.
As Henners said, at the very least they can have their own youtube channel.
And i myself have said I don;t mind parting with a few dollars if I could get some great videos and a better product.
Relying on the individual broadcast partners is a fairly useless system.
I know sky has the red button and some enhanced features, but from what I understand that comes with a steep price and is available only to IK viewers.
Here in the states NBC sports are doing their sorry best, but it falls far short from a compelling product.
They need to offer a strong package for internet viewers. and I won;t mind paying for a good HD package for the weekend that includes all 3 FP sessions, Qualy and the race.
Now i wont do it for all the races, but enough to make it worth their while.
Or even if they have a decent archive section, where you can pay to see some older races would be helpful.
oh well
Amazed really.
I mean you are charged and rather than face a trial you can just pay a bribe to get off a bribe. I mean I assume Bernie couldn't do the same if he had been charged with murder?
Anyway, I wonder which direction F1 will take after Bernie passes on or retires (which doesn't look likely)
Could it return towards a more basic motorsport in terms of layout and format or will it continue down the show route.
I'm under no illusions that f1 will likely not change once Bernie is gone. It may be forced to change by a massive drop in interest, but as long as it's making money, it'll remain on the same road. Bernie took the mick out of the German justice system today and is laughing his head off this evening.
We'll probably be going from the consistency one man calling the shots every single time (however good or bad you might consider that to be) to having bankers and lawyers and investors all fighting amongst themselves to weasel themselves into more power and a bigger cut. You can bet everyone involved wants to be in Bernie's position and I would not be surprised if a few of these guys are found ODed in bed with a dead tranny or something.Quote:
Originally Posted by henners88
The infighting and backstabbing is going top be utterly epic. It might even become more interesting than the racing.
E's shysters abused §153a of the German code of criminal procedure. (With the help of E's legal team ?) Gribkowsky made a spectacular u-turn on his earlier testimony and suddenly more or less parroted Ecclestones version of the events and completely wrecked the chain of evidence presented by the prosecution. Two career criminals doing each other favours. As a German I'm quite appalled at what happened there, to the point that I'm seriously considering filing charges for perversion of justice against the Bavarian state court. Not that it would help much. Bavaria is ripe with filth and corruption.Quote:
Originally Posted by steveaki13
Quote:
Originally Posted by truefan72
This is without doubt an area where Formula 1 could improve. Not accepting the new media options is a bad move. Reliance on TV viewing only had promoters only pushing the channels, not the sport. Great points all around on the marketing approach that could be much better.
But in reality, how many people Bernie's age really accepted social media? I would have thought that with the tech on the cars he would have accepted and embraced it, but he hasn't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveaki13
It's rare that a person can settle out of court if there is any strong case against them. Knowing BE has money, it would cost huge amounts to take his case to trial, at the risk of no recovery of money if he isn't proven guilty. Likewise Bernie knows being tied up in courts all costs him a great amount of money, time, frustrations, etc.
If you got charged with a traffic ticket for a minor offense would you waste countless time proving your innocence, or pay the small fine the way many people do? Being someone with a lot of money, Bernie's life is a lot easier just settling things out of court. He doesn't have much time left to spend his billions as it is, why waste some of that time?
It is sad really.Quote:
Originally Posted by airshifter
There are always 3 different judicial systems!
One system for regular folks and the vast majority of the population where the courts like to use the heavy hand of the law to hammer down folks needlessly
Another system for the rich, where they can pay their way out of convictions, or find themselves being shown extreme leniency, even in some of the most heinous crimes.
And the last one reserved for corporations, where they need not even bother about a conviction or even going to court.
So why should it be any different for bernie?
The money is inconsequential towards what he was charged off. and worse yet, his co-conspirator is currently still serving jail time for his part.
last i checked germany was not struggling for money and so who actually benefits from that $100mil?
Are the german courts telling me that paying a fine can mitigate a conviction or charges of clear bribery, even when the defendant admits as much?
The state of Bavaria is never going to spurn 100mil. The whole state is ripe with filth and corruption. Almost 50% of the members of the Bavarian parliament have been flagged for cases of nepotism in recent years. This case was not Germany vs Ecclestone, but Bavaria vs Ecclestone. The free city of Hamburg for instance would have ridden the thing out till the bitter end. Corruption in Germany increases the further south you travel. The southern states of Bavaria and Baden-Würtemberg are cesspools of crime and corruption.Quote:
Originally Posted by truefan72
This 'settlement' came about, because somehow E could convince Gribkowsky to change his complete testimony. The whole trial based on Gribkovski's guilty plea in which he revealed E's involvment. Now he rescinded most of that and claimed the opposite. The prosecution, after Gribkovsky more or less adopted E's version of the events, had a case that was too strong for acquittal and too weak for a clear conviction, so the case would have become and endless affair, so the state offered the bribe and used §153a to make it 'legal'. The settlement means that E is neither acquitted, nor convicted. He's still the one considered to have comitted the crime, but the state of Bavaria offers to stop prosecuting for a donation.
Here's the full explanation how he weaseled his way out of it
F1 Fat Hippo: Sad Joke of German Courts.
Settling out of court is something you do if you're being sued. Bernie wasn't being sued, he was being tried for a criminal offence. A criminal offence for which the penalty would be years in prison, not a fine. I'm amazed to learn that a civilised country allows this kind of "settling out of court" for criminal trials.Quote:
Originally Posted by airshifter
Well 'realpolitik' is a German invented concept, after all ;)
It was settled in court by the court, not out of court, as the court found the case was way too sloppy to get anywhere soon. A case of 100 mill in hand versus millions in the bush...Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyL
A lady on the radio summed it up nicely for me yesterday; Bernie paying his way out of a bribery conviction is akin to an arsonist getting off by burning the court down.
could not have said it better myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyL
excellent post
wrongQuote:
Originally Posted by donKey jote
if he was convicted, all the money in the world would not have mattered
this was not a civil suit, and the penalty for conviction was not a monetary fine
it was jail.
occasionally rich people do go to jail (usually club fed) when they are found guilty of criminal conduct, such as bribery, stealing money, severe tax evasion, and other nefarious crimes.
and for as corrupt and rigged as the US justice system is, at least they don't have the option to walk into court, pay a sum of money and be home in time for a fancy dinner and the private jet to st. tropez.
Not entirely right ;)
the court maybe thought the chances of an 84 year old being convicted on such flimsy evidence in his lifetime were pretty low.
ze law is ze law
ask Uli Hoeness if rich people can just walk into Bavarian courts and buy themselves out...
other than that, I obviously also think it's a disgrace. But I have seen much worse :)
If the evidence was good enough to convict Gribkowsky for receiving the bribe, how is it now too flimsy to convict Ecclestone for paying it? Bernie himself has admitted he gave Gribkowsky the money, so that part of it is surely not in dispute.
As I understand it , Gribowski came to court originally trying to screw Bernie to save his own skin and got sentenced to eight and a half years .
When he came to Bernie's trial , he became forgetful , trying to save Bernie's skin , as that would have had his trial revisited .
But , alas , Bernie , with some of the main evidence forgotten , was still a man with the means to give the court a way to end the trial completely , and so he did .
Gribowski's ethics regarding this change of heart tells a lot about his character , and somewhat reinforces the claim that Bernie made him being an extortionist .
In dispute was whether Bernie knew he was a public servant or not. Try proving that with two potential amnesiacs as your only source of proof.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyL
And the possibility that gribkowsky would also have to be let off, if the case against Bernie went the wrong way, apparently also played a part in the willingness to settle...
I've said that the sum paid by Bernie is the same sum paid by McLaren after being guilty for the 2007 Spygate.
The sum was calculated on the basis of his income, or whatever he said his income was....