[ERC] Circuit of Ireland 2014

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Originally Posted by Jarek Z

Easily. Exactly in the same way as it was done for 50 years, before some idiot invented two rallies in one.

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There is no use in talking about what was nice fifty years a go. The grass was greener in those times. Everybody knows...

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Originally Posted by Jarek Z

Are you serious? I can't believe you support it.

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It doesn't help to dream about some wonderland where everything works nice. You need to cope with existing consequences. I do support the idea when there is no better choice which is this case.

What exactly You want to do in case of CoI? I don't ask about Your dreams but about real action You would take as an organizer. Be specific please.

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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC

National Entry has all the local guys in WRCs, Evo IXs and Historics for the Irish tarmac Championship:

http://www.circuitofireland.net/uplo...list_final.pdf

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Information about Laird's punto??is a real Abarth Punto S2000??thanks

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Originally Posted by Jarek Z

Easily. Exactly in the same way as it was done for 50 years, before some idiot invented two rallies in one.



Are you serious? I can't believe you support it.

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Well ever since you have had to run a recent homologated car (ie for a very long time now) there has been a large number of competitors who would love to drive the same roads as the big budget guys, but have an older car/lack homologated gear and therefore are excluded from entering the international event.

This caters to both groups. This is how I did the WRC round here in NZ each year for the last few years, in an old Legacy and then an old WRX. I was able to run to regional rules which meant no need to have homologated parts on the car or some of the higher tier safety gear (ie HANS), therefore I could spend more money on doing events, rather than spending all my money on building/buying a car that was suited to an international event that happens once a year.

From a competitor perspective it makes perfect sense! And from an organiser perspective, they still get good support. So win-win really.

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Originally Posted by Mirek

There is no use in talking about what was nice fifty years a go.

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I can't believe what I read. Are you really serious? I thought that wise people (and I consider you a wise person) draw conclusions from the past not to repeat the same mistakes in future?

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Originally Posted by Mirek

It doesn't help to dream about some wonderland where everything works nice.

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Really? Do you really think it is better to stagnate than to improve things?

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What exactly You want to do in case of CoI? I don't ask about Your dreams but about real action You would take as an organizer. Be specific please.

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I'll try to be as specific as I can. What sense does it make to organize a sporting event in a country where competitors do not want to compete? I think that ERC organizers should choose the localizations of ERC rounds more carefully. One of the main factors of attractiveness of a rally event is the entry list. In Ireland this entry list is very poor, because local drivers do not want to compete. In order to avoid such situations in future this round should be given to another country. As far as I remember more than 20 countries were interested to host an ERC event. Why not choose a country where everybody competes in the same type of cars? Is it not more exciting to see the fight of top ERC drivers against local heroes?

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Originally Posted by Jarek Z

I can't believe what I read. Are you really serious? I thought that wise people (and I consider you a wise person) draw conclusions from the past not to repeat the same mistakes in future?

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Neither you nor me have a power to change worldwide rules. For me it's pointless to complain about how beautiful it would be if everything was completely different. I wanted to point out that it's better to discuss real possibilities rather than dreams.

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Originally Posted by Jarek Z

I'll try to be as specific as I can. What sense does it make to organize a sporting event in a country where competitors do not want to compete? I think that ERC organizers should choose the localizations of ERC rounds more carefully. One of the main factors of attractiveness of a rally event is the entry list. In Ireland this entry list is very poor, because local drivers do not want to compete. In order to avoid such situations in future this round should be given to another country. As far as I remember more than 20 countries were interested to host an ERC event. Why not choose a country where everybody competes in the same type of cars? Is it not more exciting to see the fight of top ERC drivers against local heroes?

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That's all true but it's about different thing than the original topic You started. Your complains were about the existence of the 2-in-1 event.

Pitty the absence of Stéphane Lefèbvre in Junior ERC :(
Maybe he chose to oriente his career in JWRC where he won in Portugal :confused:

Interesting discussion guys..

Re the CoI getting ERC status, I guess the ERC are trying to spread the brand as widely as possible and go to countries with a large rally fanbase.

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Originally Posted by mousti

...Ingram VS Cerny for Junior ERC victory :)

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Not if Ingram is in the Twingo ;)

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Originally Posted by Tom206wrc

Pitty the absence of Stéphane Lefèbvre in Junior ERC :(
Maybe he chose to oriente his career in JWRC where he won in Portugal :confused:

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Azores is his next rally. Ireland was not included.

Sent from my HTC Desire X using Tapatalk 2

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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC

Interesting discussion guys..

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Thanks, but I'm afraid we should finish it now. I will never understand why Mirek doesn't understand me :) and we should stop at this point, because it's becoming too negative for the forum.

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Originally Posted by Mirek

How do You want to do that in practical way? Seriously. Many countries don't follow international rules and once they they have their own rules they have only to options - either to hold two events in one or only the international one. For organizers it is economical suicide not to try to implement national cars somehow. There is nothing idiotic about that.

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As you probably know, ERC Ypres counts each year again also for the Belgian Rally Championship, despite there can't start WRC cars, GT's, BMW's and other cars. Why is it so difficult in other countries to have only the ERC Rally and no other rally? Just as Jarek Z said, the ERC entry lists should be a lot better than... I really understand Jarek Z.

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Originally Posted by Wim_Impreza

As you probably know, ERC Ypres counts each year again also for the Belgian Rally Championship, despite there can't start WRC cars, GT's, BMW's and other cars. Why is it so difficult in other countries to have only the ERC Rally and no other rally? Just as Jarek Z said, the ERC entry lists should be a lot better than... I really understand Jarek Z.

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Thanks for your support Wim! It's good to see that I'm not alone :)
Yes, Ypres Rally is a good example, I completely forgot about it.

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Originally Posted by Wim_Impreza

As you probably know, ERC Ypres counts each year again also for the Belgian Rally Championship, despite there can't start WRC cars, GT's, BMW's and other cars. Why is it so difficult in other countries to have only the ERC Rally and no other rally? Just as Jarek Z said, the ERC entry lists should be a lot better than... I really understand Jarek Z.

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Yes, I know. In fact Barum was a very same example (in 2005 and 2006) but frankly that solution is far from being ideal too. Yes, it looks good for ERC but it's completely wrong for the national championship to have one rally with different rules than the others. It's same like if one ERC event was run with WRC cars. When You look at it from this point You can see that it's stupid. It's stupid also vice versa. In fact it's only a misuse of national championship drivers for having a nice entry list of the bigger ERC event. You can't deny that many crews do the ERC event only because it is part of national championship and not because they would be interested in driving the ERC rally. I know a lot of those who don't give a sh*t about ERC classification and drive Barum only because it is part of national championship. As a result they help to make the very nice ERC list de facto against their own will.

So to sum it...

If You separate national and ERC field You have two worse events in the same time but You clearly see real interest of crews in ERC. You keep unchanged rules for both championships all year long. For spectators on place it almost doesn't matter.

If You force national championship drivers to drive under different rules once per year You get one better event for the price of being largely fake in terms of real ERC competition and some damage to Your national championship (for example many crews can not afford to take part in twice longer event under different rules than the rest of the championship).

Ok for Ypres guys drives S2000 or R5. But look at belgian championship : how many top guys do it ? Not a lot ... And GT cars started in the back of the field last years :) And the guys who have BMW doesn't the rally at all ... the guys we find on entry list are more or less these who have ERC homologated cars.
And it's for sure easier to rent a S2000 in Ypres than in Ireland. You have more travel cost to go in Ireland, and the first is simply to take the boat, whereas in Belgium you can find closer S2000 to rent.

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Originally Posted by vino_93

Ok for Ypres guys drives S2000 or R5. But look at belgian championship : how many top guys do it ? Not a lot ... And GT cars started in the back of the field last years :) And the guys who have BMW doesn't the rally at all ... the guys we find on entry list are more or less these who have ERC homologated cars.
And it's for sure easier to rent a S2000 in Ypres than in Ireland. You have more travel cost to go in Ireland, and the first is simply to take the boat, whereas in Belgium you can find closer S2000 to rent.

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Very possible that Van Parijs start in the ERC field with his new 997, they build them up for getting that FIA passport. The 997 is a bit different then the BMA Porsche 997.

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Originally Posted by vino_93

Ok for Ypres... the guys we find on entry list are more or less these who have ERC homologated cars.
And it's for sure easier to rent a S2000 in Ypres than in Ireland. You have more travel cost to go in Ireland, and the first is simply to take the boat, whereas in Belgium you can find closer S2000 to rent.

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Don't be so sure about this. It is very difficult to find a good S2000 car here, as there is almost no tuner in Belgium where you can rent S2000 cars. The inscription for Ypres is very expensive.

yes of course, but you can find cars in Netherlands, France, Italy, ... (didn't Cracco rent S2000 in Belgium ?)
Irish can find the cars exactly as the same place, because there is none of them there or in UK ... but their is ship cost, which give it more expansive. Contacts are more difficult with the teams on the continent, and want these teams travel up to Ireland ? That's a long travel ...

You can only rent WRC's from First in Belgium. Floral (?), J-Motorsport, Symtech, GoDrive, Kronos (?) are all teams where u could rent a R5 or S2000. About the questionmarks is that I don't know if it's still like that in 2014.

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Originally Posted by vino_93

Irish can find the cars exactly as the same place, because there is none of them there or in UK ... but their is ship cost, which give it more expansive. Contacts are more difficult with the teams on the continent, and want these teams travel up to Ireland ? That's a long travel ...

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So... No cars, high ship costs, difficult contacts, high travel costs, long time travel, reluctance of the local drivers, bad entry list, 2 rallies in one - sorry to be brutal, but does it make sense to include such rally in ERC?

There is one different problem - drivers in Belgium are interested in international competition, to fight with good foreign drivers, to go abroad. Thats why they are able to rent the cars for ERC event. Most of the drivers in UK prefers to start only at home, dont want to comparison with foreign drivers. They have their own field, with local cars and they are not interested in start with S2000 or R5. Despite some of the local cars costs more than renting proper car for ERC...

Breen last week in Kerry

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdkKeKXQuMM

Another Breen clip...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZJujAtkirE

@ Jarek -Yes it does, if you believe in inclusiveness. Britons are criticised for not wanting to be 'good europeans'. Not including CoI in the ERC would prove what many suspect, British membership of european institutions is a one way street. The key problem you fail to mention is it was too easy for continent-based competitors to opt out of entering CoI. All events counting for the total points would make some (maybe not enough) difference.
As for Pluto's point about Belgian drivers going abroad - this usually means a max 500km drive and no ferry trip, or else they'd go to Ireland (which was abroad from Belgium last time I looked;))

I am not blaming the organisers, because it is certainly a matter of budget, but I expect Azores to have a better entry that this and Azores is at least as bad logistically...

But they have live tv and they fund the boat for the mainland competitors to make it over.

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Originally Posted by RS

I am not blaming the organisers, because it is certainly a matter of budget, but I expect Azores to have a better entry that this and Azores is at least as bad logistically...

But they have live tv and they fund the boat for the mainland competitors to make it over.

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Acores is better logistically because they are helping the crews a lot. Ok, it takes much more time (for team from Czech it means to be three weeks out of home), but organisers are helping with costs for ferry and plane a lot.

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Originally Posted by Mintexmemory

All events counting for the total points would make some (maybe not enough) difference.

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I dont think so. Most of the teams has no budget to do all events. As you can see, most of the drivers will do maximum eight events. And also manufacturer drivers was/are/will not do all events...

Peugeot testing some time ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QF848kzKudk

http://www.picturesofireland.ie/COI_...014%20(33).jpg
http://www.picturesofireland.ie/COI_...014%20(37).jpg
http://www.picturesofireland.ie/COI_...014%20(19).jpg
http://www.picturesofireland.ie/COI_...bum/index.html

Have I missed something? Why is Ketomaa testing here?

Guys, thank you very much for all your comments. I'd like to make it clear that I'm not against Circuit of Ireland in ERC, but I'm strongly against the stupid idea of "2 rallies in one". Anyway, I wish you all a great rally! :)

Looking forward to the weekend's action. It will be intriguing to see how the 208 performs on a different kind of rally.

Last time this event was run (in IRC) Skoda won every stage and finished 1-2-3. Doubt that's gonna happen this time!

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Originally Posted by RS

Have I missed something? Why is Ketomaa testing here?

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Tyre test for DMack...

Pity he's not doing the rally in the Fiesta R5.

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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC

Tyre test for DMack...

Pity he's not doing the rally in the Fiesta R5.

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Yes it is.. let's see if Wilson is true to his word and willing to come and challenge the 208 at some point :)

Ah, so here's why they have a Qualifying Stage for a tarmac rally...

Some serious cutting by the Skoda's on their test leads to this in the road... :eek:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BlNCY7yIgAIjf1r.jpg

Preview on local (Irish) TV news: RTE1 http://www.rte.ie/sport/player/734/608993/

Came across this when looking at the CoI on YouTube: 1985 Circuit of Ireland... :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBY7ABDCG2Y

Those were the days ! 3 RWD Opel Manta's see off the mightly Audi Quattros... no wonder I bought one !! :D

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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC

Ah, so here's why they have a Qualifying Stage for a tarmac rally...

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That was FIA (and possibly Eurosport) decision. Quite a lot of drivers and organizers were against it actually...

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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC

Some serious cutting by the Skoda's on their test leads to this in the road... :eek:

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That's why some organizers are forced to place anti-cutting obstacles in every second corner...

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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC

Ah, so here's why they have a Qualifying Stage for a tarmac rally...

Some serious cutting by the Skoda's on their test leads to this in the road... :eek:

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That´s really severe cutting. punctures to be expected.

Can anyone please copy later all links to entry list, results etc here. I am in South Africa for filedworks and I have not very fast internet here. So, it would be great if I can find all information from here.. thaks!
And sorry, I have no time to look weather:-(

Entry list ERC: http://www.circuitofireland.net/uplo...ved_by_fia.pdf
National: http://www.circuitofireland.net/uplo...h_sponsors.pdf

Timetable: http://www.autosport.cz/zavody/soubor.php?f=15732
Live results: http://www.rally-base.com or on http://www.fiaerc.com (so far no direct link created in either one, for slow connection probably best to use mobile version m.rally-base.com)