All in a days work. Did Jean Todt swallow his chewing gum when Massa mowed the grass?Quote:
Originally Posted by tinchote
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All in a days work. Did Jean Todt swallow his chewing gum when Massa mowed the grass?Quote:
Originally Posted by tinchote
I have always maintained that Massa is one of the most over-rated drivers on the grid. He proved that once again in this GP, starting on pole and finishing 5th :dozey:
Hamilton will be world champ before Massa.
You can never accuse the other driver of your own mistakes and Massa neither it. F1 is the highest form of racing and there is not any place for excuses for that kind of mistakes Massa did in Malaysia. How would it sound saying “you brake too late so it’s your fault that I did the same”. What would the next driver say? “You drove too fast and when I tried to follow you I went off... You *******” Grrr.. :)
Massa's a good egg, but I have never really understood the hype of him being a world champion. Hence, IMO, I think it will only be a few more races before Mr Todt breaks the news to Felipe.Quote:
Originally Posted by schmenke
Seems to me that theres a few people on here who dont like mclaren so are trying to FIND reasons to not like hamilton
You CAN trick someone into outbraking themselfs, you simply leave your braking as late as possible, knowing that your rival is on the dirty line and to make the pass he will have to brake ATLEAST as late as you, therefore creating the very high possibility that he will outbrake himself
Rather then focusing on what LH said maybe people should be focusing more on how badly massa drove! it was almost like he was back in his sauber
Regardless of whether Hamilton deserves credit for winning at mind games or Mass deserves credit for just making a mess of it, we all know who was the winner of that stoush.
Dirty tactics? Some people need to do their history. Suzuka '90 and Adelaide '94 are a start.
Hamilton is making the most of his chances by getting 2 consecutive podium finnishes... I belive Lewis will be a future champ... I mean he's just so composed in the situations that give off the most pressure , a perfect example is this least race where Hamilton managed to keep both Massa and Raikkonen behind him in only his 2nd race! Hamilton will pull off a Mika Hakkinen but much sooner..Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
A high speed crash or a wee sob in the bushes after a car failure? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by raikk
:D That was one of the funniest things I've ever seen in F1. That, and that Japanese driver getting run over by the safety car.Quote:
Originally Posted by janneppi
Hamilton did nothing dirty and his comments in the press conference were surprising but very amusing all the same. The boy's good but I won't call him a future world champion because that phrase gets used too often and rarely proves accurate.
What we saw was a some good, bad and ugly pieces of racing. The good was Hamilton's defense against the faster Ferraris. The bad was Massa messing up his passing attempt twice at the same corner. The ugly was the rest of Massa's race. Finishing 5th behind a BMW in a car that could have won the race from pole is bloody ugly indeed.
Felipe, my boy, you had better get your act together or Jean will be trying to coax Schumi away from the poolside in short order.
I completely agree. It was first rate racing. Massa was hounding him and over eager to make the pass, LH found a spot that would allow him to outbrake and outmaneuver him in a wide braking section of the track and purposely left the door wide both times. He knew that Massa would take the bait both times with the 2nd attempt being even more agreesive than the first.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zico
No arrogance and DEFINITELY no dirty tricks.
Listen. Give credit where credit is due and leave things at that.
Not only is he exceptionally talented and fast, but has just shown us an ability to be extremely savvy and smart in his racecraft under the most intense of pressures.
I suppose he also has some telepathic powers and knew that Massa will twice miss his braking point? :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by truefan72
BTW how can the one in front out brake the one coming from behind? It's like saying that Hamilton passed Massa!
Ioan give it up please!!!!
if he were driving a Ferrari, you would be singing his praises to no end. Just be rational for once when it comes to non ferrari drivers. Wow such petulance and stubborness is uncanny.
and yes, he did outbrake him...technically he did pass massa, twice as mass was leading into the turn twice
You may root for your favorite team and driver, but you cannot change facts
I wonder if you, like Massa were "surprised by the McClaren speed" LOL
http://www.eurosport.com/formula1/ma...o1143302.shtml
I guess i'm telepathic too, while driving race sims online, i often lured opponents into coming in too hot into corners while braking earlier and turning into corners with better exit speeds, it only worked with amateurish drivres though. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
Its a classic sucker move! You rush up to the corner and brake as late as you can but give the guy some room on the inside but dirty line, the other guy will try to out brake you and you pull up early and he overshoots the corner. I have done it trying to pass someone, come up the outside and look like you are going to go in real deep and go around the outside but brake at the last minute and switch back as the other guy comes in real deep to out brake you and bingo he goes wide and you slip through on the inside. But as I say the other guy has to be a sucker and I think that Massa must fit that bill as thats what he did. Fell foul of the sucker treatment! Now a smarter driver would not make that mistake as all you have to do is be cool and just pull up beside that driver and he will have nowere to go!
It was a brilliant move. He made Massa look like a fool. I used to think FM was a mediocre driver and then changed my mind. He still has time to prove he can be WDC but I for one begin to doubt it seriously. In Australia he had by far the Fastest car but he only managed to finish 6th. That's a very poor result. KR, in Bahrain last year, got 3rd after starting last and this in a car that was behind the renaults and the ferraris. He wasn't able to pass Heidfeld...!!!
I don't see why you are finding it so difficult to understand.Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
:rolleyes: Comparing Australia with Bahrain, nothing it's the same, not even the tracks.Quote:
Originally Posted by eu
Maybe because I have no Queen?Quote:
Originally Posted by BeansBeansBeans
Or maybe I just think before believing whatever is said?
Maybe both.
I have no problem with you questioning Lewis Hamilton's version of events in this instance. However, you seem to be suggesting that it isn't possible for a driver to trick an into outbraking himself, when it clearly is.Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
What has that got to do with anything? Both circuits have corners on them at which it is possible to overtake by various means. This is quite a major similarity when discussing overtaking.Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
Well if you are the one trying to overtake you might pressure the other one into something like that, but when you are in front it's always the one coming up from behind that has to brake later and later whatever you do, so he is the one pushing himself to the limit (and to the fault) not the one who is overtaken.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeansBeansBeans
Then again, Massa was clearly in a hurry to get past Hamilton, it couldn't have been missed by Lewis either, Massa also had the tendency to understeer which also was evident and i wouldn't be surprised if the team had discussed how Massa might drive, and how this could be dealt with.
Brilliant race craft by Hamilton in his first two races. I was a bit surprised by his comments in the press conference because to me it was out of character. Massive over reaction to call him arrogant by whoever said it earlier in the thread, but I liked seeing the confidence in Lewis and thankfully he has done most of his talking on the track.
Because "overtaking" is not the same from track to track. Australia for one is not known as an "overtaking" track. Bahrain on the other hand is wide, and purposefully designed for racing and enabling overtaking.Quote:
Originally Posted by BDunnell
Now that being said, I still think Kimi would have done better in Australia given the same circumstances of Massa. Kimi is a better driver, and after Malaysia there is no longer any doubt in my mind. Massa will not have the chance to be WDC as long as he has teamates like MS and Kimi.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
This is a circular discussion that will never end.
If I am racing YOU. I am in front and see you coming up behind me. My strategy in defending my position is to be the protagonist. How do I do that?
I brake as late as possible to try and force you into braking too late and overshooting the corner.
From your point of view, you just messed up. But from my point of view, you did EXACTLY what I wanted you to do.
Norbert was referring to LH holding up the Ferraris, not tricking Massa into outbreaking himself.Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcot
Totally different issue.
For me it’s difficult to understand why some people are blaming Hamilton about his brilliant driving? Every driver has to do everything he can to keep his competitors behind him, so what’s wrong? Was he braking too late? Of course he must brake as late as possible. To tell the truth, Massa made couple of mistakes – that’s it. Every one can make a mistakes and this time it was Massa. In my mind it was even bigger mistake to give both McLarens an open door in start, which also was the reason to that Massa got this “feeling” that he must try to prepare it as soon as possible and overtake at leaste LH.
Imo it's "almost laughable", when some people try to blame Hamilton? What are they waiting? That LH says to Massa in the start "Excuse me Massa, but you must go first - it’s unfair if I go first"? or later on “Massa I’ll brake early in the second curve so you can overtake me – but be carefully so you don’t brake too late and … ” ;)
In today's press conference both Massa & Hamilton have commented on/been asked about their battle:
Felipe Massa:Lewis Hamilton:Quote:
"I would have done the same if I was in front. These days we prove that F1 is very difficult to pass, it depends also on the track. Malaysia is not an easy track to pass and he was fighting for his position and would not give it to me. It was a difficult corner, very dirty off line but it is the only way to try. For sure when Lewis is behind I will not give him an easy time either, but he did a very good job. This is not dirty driving, it is just normal."
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/58007Quote:
"I didn't trick him. I think I said the wrong word. You cannot trick him. What you try to do when you are out there, you try and force them into an error. That is what I tried to do because that was the only way I could keep ahead of him, I pushed to stay ahead of him. I tried to force him into a mistake, not trick him."
Congrats to both drivers for this statements.
But part of me wonders if LH was told to change his story to a more corporate-management-pleasing one? Could be the start of RD micro-managing LH. If so, how long will LH take it?
You're speculating on what isn't there.Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcot
I'd say he just looked at it and thought of a more succint way he could've explained it.
For once i agreed with IOAN. LH doesn't derserve the half the credit he claimed. Massa was just being unlucky. I believed the real reason why Massa counldn't make that corner has more to do with the longer wheel base (4 inch to be exact) of the new car. A car designed by an ex-Mclaren Designer by the name of Nicholas Tombazis. The wheel base is too long it has to do a 3 point turn to over take a Mclaren and aero design that sucked up all the dirty air from the rear of a Mclaren not even Kimi can do anything about it. Wait a minute, Kimi's from Mclaren too. That means Massa & team red is realy facing and uphill battle. One against three on the grid. What an ingenious move by the ronsterQuote:
Originally Posted by ioan
No, he is a kid, no matter how fast. He said stupid thing than he apologized. That's all.Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcot
And RD loves to bash Ferrari. Can't see his influence over Lewis.
:up:Quote:
Originally Posted by Malllen
he made massa look ordinary thats for sure considering that a few of the forumers were harping on massa as a potential WDC,it doesn't look like that now does it....the sad part of FM's race was not the mistake with lewis,it's rather the lack of pace throughout the reminder of the race which he should have really been in the podium
RD and LH have known each other since LH was a young boy who wanted to race in F1 for him one day. They are more than just Boss and Driver and I see LH taking as much advise from RD as he can, both on and off the race track.Quote:
Originally Posted by F1boat
Ron deserves enormous credit for 1) supporting LH's career the way he did for many years and 2) giving him the opportunity he has this year, particularly as it's not like McLaren to take a rookie on as a race driver. The last time they did was with Jan Magnussen back in '95.Quote:
Originally Posted by 555-04Q2
There is an infinite number of mind games that leaders/followers partake in - giving someone a little room to pass in the hope that they overcook the corner is hardly a novel tactic. I've been on the track with touring cars that have altered brake light actuators - in both directions: the brake light comes on before the brakes actually engage, forcing the trailing car to brake early - or the opposite, the light comes on late which can sometimes cause the trailing car to come in to the corner too hot.Quote:
Originally Posted by RJL25
although you can't classify Raikkonen as a Rookie when he came to Mclaren,think Rakka learnt a lot from his time in Mclaren with RD though
also i was amused cause judging by lewis hamilton's reply,he was suprised to see Massa make that error