Maybe last season engine revs were over the 100%:Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ym0Nzp0d2VQ
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Maybe last season engine revs were over the 100%:Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ym0Nzp0d2VQ
>>The FIA took care of that
ZOMG! the FIA are always helping Ferrari... erm I mean Renault... erm I mean McLaren
(I'm confused, can some one help me out with this seasons conspiracy theories? maybe with a flowchart)
LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by TMorel
Back to the topic. Fernando is for real, he smoked Ferraris Nough said. All this he had help from his teammate thing is absolute rubbish. Hamilton was heavier on fuel, and anyone that believes that a rookie racing in only his 2nd race with heavier fuel can beat his 2xWDC teammate is high on some cheap stuff. Perhaps if Hamilton started the race on less fuel, we could start discussing possible team orders, but under the circumstances that he started in, he had no chance. Perhaps McLaren knowing that they have great starts, they decided to fill up Hamilton in hopes, that his skill and starting speed of McLaren would put him ahead of the Ferraris and then hold them there. That is not team orders, just genious race strategy. Perhaps if Massa was not such a fool, he would have passed Hamilton and made for a more interesting race. Speaking of Massa, he hsould be #2, he doesn't deserve to have #1 status.
There is no over 100% in mechanics.Quote:
Originally Posted by andreag
If an engine goes to 21000 revs/min than that's it's 100%, if it gets to 25000 than that's the 100%.
Back to Mercedes, they never looked like having the best engines since 1999/2000, their power plants were either fast and unreliable or slow and reliable.
That's the past. Now they have what seems to be a fast and reliable car, the 2xWDC, and the finest rookie to enter F1 for many, many years. That makes for a tough combination to beat :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
[quote="raphael123"]Where did Alonso benefit from team orders in this race? Hamilton managed to get past the Ferraris, but he wasn't holding them up by compromising his race. He was going as fast as he could.
QUOTE]
Sure :angel: He was going as fast as he should... and that,s racing ... ;)
I don't think you can give Alonso much credit for making the McLaren car what it is at this point. As people pointed out above, the car was basically done before Alonso ever stepped foot in there. McLaren has produced a top car again and it didn't have anything to do with who the drivers were going to be.
To me, the question isn't whether Alonso is "for real." The real question is how did he get so lucky. He was at Renault at their peak and then he switches to McLaren who had been down a little just as they produce a top car and Renault falls back.
And you don't see that among many different factors the common one is Alonso?
I'm not saying he designed the car, but come on!
Going back to "hear say" and things that were written a while ago,
didn't FA get to drive the McCar for the first time and say "No wonder Kimi couldn't beat me driving this . . ."
If he did actually say this, when in the time line of the new car development did he say it?
tough question for sure because what the heck do we know . . .
any takers?????
:s mokin:
race aficionado, I heard that comment in connection with Alonso after driving last years Macca.
Quote:
Originally Posted by janneppi
thanks janneppi.
If I recall correctly FA was not allowed to get into a MacCar after contract responsibilities with Renault - or something like that . . . . the fact is that he had to wait a while before he was allowed into one.
So did he drive a Mac that was under development or did he drive an old version that happened to be in the garage?
I just ask this because I would like to believe that FA had a lot to add in terms of making the car what it is today. Just by listening to him talk to the engineers and thank them at the end of the race, it is obvious that he is involved and aware of all the hard work in setups and all.
:s mokin:
So a team with no bridgestone experience over the last 6 years, benefitted more than all other teams, including the ones that had been on bridgestone for years?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark
If I recall correctly it was related to another comment, he supposedly made. When he first arrived to McLaren he was under contractual limitations from Renault so he could not drive the car. It seems he tried the simulator machine and he said to the engineers he needed a better machine because that one was completely rubbish. After driving the 2006 car in December he talked to the engineers again and said that the simulator was perfect it was the car which was entirely wrong, and he then said "no wonder Kimi couldn't beat me on this"Quote:
Originally Posted by race aficionado
yes
Alonso is a great driver, no doubt. But I think anyone who says he is the reason the car is so good is living in a fantasy world. My guess is that kimi had a lot more to do with the car than Alonso. I am sure Kimi told them what was wrong with the old car which would have influenced the design of the new car.
Maybe you're the one who live in a fantasy world.
After Malaysian GP finished, Alonso had a two and a half hours meeting with the engineers, to talk about the race, the recent improvements (how the new front wing did), the weakest points, and how all this would be facing Bahrain. By the time he left Sepang, Kimi (is an example) had left almost two hours before.
In words of Martin Whitmarsh, his dedication to the team has been an inspiration to everyone in McLaren. They were simply not used to this level of feedback from their recent drivers.
That's what right now they're missing in Renault.
What dirty tactics? Ok here we go, on Hamilton's first stint with Massa and Kimi on his tail, Hamilton was dropping almost a sec. a lap to Alonso. After the first round of pit stops, Kimi came out about 10 sec back of Hamilton, on that stint Hamilton was actually faster then Alonso clawing back to I believe less then 8 secs to Alonso. After the last set of stops, After Hamilton cleared the Honda's he was about 20 secs back of Alonso, but cut it to about 17 after he was pushed by Kimi. So there is no way your gonna convince me that Hamilton was almost a sec a lap slower then Alonso in the first stint without being told to hold up the ferraris (Hamilton did set fast lap of the race remember...)Quote:
Originally Posted by raphael123
And Ron Dennis almost confirmed as much after the race anyways with:
Yes I know Haug denies it in that story, but who would believe that when lap time say otherwise, and Ron has other things to say:Quote:
team boss Ron Dennis' hints to reporters after the race that both Alonso and Hamilton contributed "tactically" to the victory
http://www.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlin...09161844.shtml
And As I suggested, the only way I can imagine he could have forced anyone to make a mistake would be to drive a tad slower, and then speed up so that Massa couldn't get back to the racing line. And I would also like to note that Hamilton had a pretty good wheel lock up when Masse flew by and off track...Quote:
“He was very, very committed and clean, and of course withstanding the pressure of a charging Kimi. He could have gone quicker, but the key is to finish and get the best result you can, and it’s not about by how much.
http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/formulaone/36560/
I concur with all your points, however I don't see the "dirty tactics". Hamilton was driving a smart race for himself and Mclaren, wouldn't you say?Quote:
Originally Posted by PSfan
McLaren has finally made a reliable AND quick car, like in 1998. I have to say though that last year I was thinking that Alonso is absolutely stunning driver. Now he has problems against a ROOKIE. So he is not that special after all. However talented Hamilton is, with Alonsos supposed greatness, there should be more difference between them. But there is not.
I'm not so sure. Hamilton has had quite the upbringing in the ranks of open wheelers. He's a very experienced multi-champion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shalafi
Yes, he is extremely talented, for sure. But my point was that while people claim how dominant and great Alonso is, he doesnt seem much better than Hamilton who is a rookie and must go through some learning experiences. He will soon start to beat Alonso...How "special" Alonso is then...? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by jjanicke
I can guarantee you that all drivers on the grid would have "problems" with said rookie. So I think that credits Hamilton as opposed to detracting from Alonso.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shalafi
Besides, Alonso has qualified and raced better than his team-mate has, including one win. I don't see how he has had any "problems" thus far.
Now to you, that may not be special, but F1 isn't and was never about being "special".
As far as I'm concerned, F1 is about winning.
And Alonso has won the past two F1 championships, being the youngest driver to do so. Now I personally think that's pretty special.
How difficult it is to understand what I ment... When Hamilton is immediately this close to Alonso, give him more time to get used to F1 more, to know the tracks better and to get better as a driver, he will beat Alonso not before long. So, Alonso for sure is a good driver BUT I thought he was a better driver than it now seems and Renault really had a super car for last two seasons. Its just my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Malllen
What has the speed of the Renault for the past two years got to do with anything? Remember, like Benneton in 1994-95 with Schumacher, Renault wouldn't have won anything without Alonso there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shalafi
What I don't understand is your perceived problems Alonso has had. Alonso has beaten his team-mate twice in two attempts, has not been pressured by his team-mate has made no mistakes in doing so.
It may be well-hidden to some people, but Alonso is a brilliant driver.
Renault was made for Alonsos unique driving style and they had a great package. It obviously made him look better than he is. Yes, Alonso has beat Hamilton, but pacewise they are very close to each other, it seems. If Alonso is such a brilliant driver, should there be more gap between them? Considering Hamilton is just learning F1 and tracks and will surely improve a lot in next two years...Quote:
Originally Posted by Malllen
I dont want to take anything away from Alonso, his records speaks for itself, but he is not a second incarnation of God and he is not the only reason why Renault is now in such a mess and why McLaren is now quick again. Some people seem to think so...
I think it is now even a layman inclined to think that Alonso isn't an average driver, as opposed to the fact that many said he was having a great regret when he decided to leave Renault which was on top performance for McLaren which was having less reliability.
In this two opening races Renault, the former consecutive two winning car didn't look even better than midfield car, is a point that Alonso had remarkable contribution on the last Renault.
I’m not sure, would Hamilton perform such impressive if he is driving last year's McLaren.
I, for one, am not one of those people. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Shalafi
I agree with the rest of your post, except this:
True. Alonso basically developed that car, made the team work around him and showed the results by winning two titles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shalafi
But I really do not understand this. How can you look better than you are, when you've just won a race and finished second in the other race, and beating your team-mate, on your first two races for a completely new team?Quote:
Originally Posted by Shalafi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malllen
I ment in Renault-times compared to Fisi who had a great difficulty to drive a car that was designed perfect for Alonso. Now when he is in a new team that made the car without Alonsos influence, rookie driver is very close to him when before the season all people thought that Hamilton would be a way behind Alonso. Im sure that if Mac had been developed like Renault, to perfectly suit Alonsos driving style, Hamilton wouldnt be nearly as close to him as he is right now.
Ah, I see where you're at.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shalafi
Well in contrast, I just think that's because Hamilton is pretty bloody good, especially compared to someone like Fisi.
Mallen, I questioned Ioans understanding of English due to the fact, for whatever reason, he thought I'd stated that I didn't believe Hamilton held up the Ferraris - when I stated I don't think he did it by compromising his race. I hope that's cleared it up.
I don't see why people believe Hamilton did deliberately drive slower than he could to hold up the Ferrari's. Hamilton qualified 0.7 behind Alonso. He was around 0.9-1s slower in the first stint. Its to be expected you lose a bit of time (0.2-0.3 at least) when you have to drive as defensively as Lewis did to keep the Ferrari's back, when you have to take different lines and different braking points.
Yes, but if I were a McLaren critic, I would say that's pretty damn suss though.Quote:
Originally Posted by raphael123
I read somewhere that Hamilton blew his las quali-lap because he he thought it was gonna rain and that is why he lost so much compared to Alonso...Quote:
Originally Posted by raphael123
Of course he deliberately holded Ferraris, it was only common sense to do that.
And that takes away some of the Alonsos unique brilliance, would you say? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Malllen
Think what will happen next year, Hamilton knows the tracks, has driven F1 a year and is much more comfortable. If Alonso is brilliant and Hamilton starts to beat him consistently what is Hamilton then? Or is there a little possibility that Alonso is not as good as everyone thought... :)
I'm not saying you hate McLaren, but a 'McLaren-hater' I guess could say it's suss.Quote:
Originally Posted by Malllen
But when you look at the figures. It really isn't that unrealistic! If anything he should have been losing even more time some might say!
Yes, he was quite far off Alonso in Qualie, and then on top of having to drive as defensively as he did against the Ferrari's, losing 1sec a lap really wasn't that much of a surprise. On top of that he had more fuel.Quote:
Originally Posted by PSfan
Yes he caught up Alonso in the 2nd stint. One because he pitted in later, which helped him catch Alonso, then on top of that, he had a shorter pitstop (hence why he pitted in BEFORE Alonso for the 2nd pitstop, even though he came in later), and by then Alonso wasn't pushing like he was in the 1st stint.
And I think you'll find for the majority of the 3rd stint, Alonso was clearly the quicker driver right until the end when Alonso justed cruised to the finish in the final couple of laps. Hamilton struggled in that last stint.
Just because Ron stated it was a good tactical victory, I don't think he meant he asked Hamilton to slow down, more likely he told him to make sure they didn't get passed, and the pit stop strategies worked to perfection etc. I think we have got so use to Ferrari's way of using team-orders, some people assume every team will stoop to Ferrari's level, which even Ferrari don't do anymore since the departure of the man who wanted it implemented, Michael Schumacher.
No need to get ahead of yourself ;) lets wait and see!Quote:
Originally Posted by Shalafi
Yes. It doesnt take that long...Quote:
Originally Posted by theugsquirrel
About Alonso vs Hamilton.
Alonso is still new to the team and probably the car is still not perfectly suitable to his driving style. If he gets used better to the car, then maybe he will beat Hamilton more convincingly? (LH started testing McLaren earlier than FA)
My wild quess would be that Hamilton have more potential to get better than Alonso... If other is 2 time WDC and other is rookie it would be quite bizarre to think that Alonso would be the one with more room to improve.Quote:
Originally Posted by jens
I am goingo to apply the same logic you are using to compare Alonso and Hamilton, but with M Shucmacher and Massa in 2006. Michael is god and Massa was a noob, but Massa did beat michael on two occasions, so therefore we must asumed that after a year learning the car he would have been able to beat Michael consistently in 2007. If Massa is better than Schumi, and hamilton is better than Massa (for what we saw at malasya)... then is only about time Hamilton is the best driver of the world, without winning a race yet. If Massa is greater than Schumi and Alonso is better than Massa, then Alonso is better than Schumi. I am geting a little bit confused... So the list for best drivers goes like this:Quote:
Originally Posted by Shalafi
1. Hamilton
2 Alonso
3. Massa
4 Michale Schumacher
Do you really believe it? On the other hand if you do really think that this years Mclaren cars potential has a lot more to do with Raikkonen's input rather than Alonso's, the why McLKaren have been so crappy the last 5 years, while Kimi was their car developer¿?