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In Czech we say something like it's one exception confirming the rule :)
I didn't mean it that any combination of works car and driver will always be faster than any combination of private car and driver ;) I meant that in general Hänninen with works Fabia will always win the championship against any possible real privateer in Fabia. If You understand me.
I wrote all or almost all. For example last year - Luca Betti and Maciej Oleksowicz were missing only in one event (and it was because of results system, when the worst result is cancelled), Solowow was doing complete ERC in 2009, Corrado Fontana almost too (he was missing only on last event, when he was without chance for better result). In 2008, Solowow, Isik and Betti made all starts in ERC. In 2007, Jean-Joseph and Isik made all events, Travaglia, Solowow, and Iliev were missing in one event.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarek Z
There should be more exceptions. Look for example this year Madeira. Juho with complete factory support wasnt able to beat Bruno with private "****ty" Peugeot from Delta Racing...
You didn't get it either... I don't speak about one event in a season which is overall totally dominated by one. That changes nothing on general picture.
We have the same saying in Poland, so I get your point :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
I’m happy if ERC can increase the appreciation with Eurosport. The next tier below WRC should be ERC but imo it has been IRC in recent years.
The problem could still be with so many WRC events are in Europe and they get all the publicity. But it worked with Eurosport’s IRC so way not Eurosport with ERC.
There were many drivers showing their talent in IRC and hopefully that continues in ERC with hopefully more affordable R5 cars.
I would just make the regulations as waterproof as possible. The one thing that separate the privates from the works teams is the ECU mapping, and possibilities to reprogram it or get access to all madeQuote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
The mechanic parts is understanable for a trained machanic, and they can test and tweak. The ECU mapping is another story....
Petter Solberg in a private Citroen, and the private focus/fiestas through time tells us this has been an issue.
This will be THE key factor for the success of the R5 class imo, that is made to be a car for privateers in national and regional series. It will fail if you have access to mappings level 1,2 or 3 depending on how good a customer you are.
All I want is to secure a level playing field to start with. If some teams have more money for parts, testing and set up is fine. But letting the regulations make a A and a B team just after you bought the car will not be good for anyone. That is why making the ECU mappings open for all customers, or homologate a few, will imo level the field.
Tech stuff aside, we can agree on disagreeing :p
How many rouds should be on the ERC calendar?
What rallies would you have on your calendar ?
10 rounds would be nice, a serious championship, but a little shorter than the WRC.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
It should contain: Arctic Rally, 24 heures d'Ypres, Vinho Madeira, Rally Estonia, Cyprus, Tour de Corse, San Remo Rally, Raid Polski, Barum and the Hellendoorn Rally (but that's just because I'm Dutch ;-) )
And there should not be a rule that have the best 8 out of 10 results count. It should be 10 out of 10, and no multipliers like in last years IRC, that made it completely non-understandable for the fans. Simplicity is bliss, whoever scores the most points on all the rounds, wins. Easy, fair and square.
Oh no, don't exclude Mille Miglia, please! That is my favourite event. Can we replace Arctic with Janner Rally? I'm afraid that Finns are not interested in ERC.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally-eMag
Cyprus? Why do you want to organize rallying in countries where there is no interest in this sport? This mistake was made many times in the past. Let's not repeat it :)
I agree that simplicity is bliss, no multipliers, coefficients etc. But 10 out of 10? How many private drivers do you know who can afford 10 rounds in an international championship these days?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally-eMag
My vote is for 12 rounds:
1. Jänner
2. Acores
3. Canarias
4. Corsica
5. Ypres
6. San Marino
-----------------
7. Bosphorus
8. Madeira
9. Barum
10. Yalta
11. Poland
12. Sanremo
Season divided into two halfs with 6 events, 4 of them count.
Agree with Mille Miglia but there's need for balance of asphalt and gravel. Together with current four Italian rounds in IRC+ERC it's clear most is out for the future...Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarek Z
For Cyprus I don't agree that there is no interest. Cyprus had good entries in the last IRC seasons with a lot of drivers from MERC etc. Much better than many of this years events. However I agree that it shall be out just because it is round of MERC. I don't like an idea to have both FIA regional championships in one event.
Counting only limited number of events doesn't help them anyway. It only helps works teams whose drivers can take more risk having jokers in their pockets.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarek Z
I would love to see a gravel North England / Scots Borders event over 2 days, failing that an Irish tarmac event should be in the calender.
Was there any interest from the local organizers?
;) Of courseQuote:
Originally Posted by pucky54
Jänner has my vote for the opening round, who needs Monte if you have Jänner :D
I've never been to Mille Miglia so I can't really judge... Why wouldn't Fins be interested? There are always young talented Finnish drivers around who can't make it to the WRC just yet. And besides, Fins love ALL things rally :) But what is this Janner rally? Never heard of it...Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarek Z
Cyprus is a great rally, but I agree, not much interest from spectators. But like Mirek said, you need to balance the tarmac and gravel. I don't know too many other quality gravel events. I've been to the Cyprus rally a couple of times when it was in the WRC, and it was a great event to visit, not so many people so you could get to the stages quite easily. Nice scenery too and rough roads, providing a very different challenge than all the other European events.
Why should ERC be strictly for private drivers? I think Skoda and Peugeot might be interested to run semi-factory teams like in the IRC.
You don't know Jänner? It's annual season opening. First international event of the year held in Austrian highlands near Czech border with international competition of Austrian, Czech, German, Hungarian, Italian, Slovak and other crews. Also one of the very few events were Stig Blomqvist still drive! Roads of Jänner were also used for Pirelli Star Driver Shootout but that was in summer. This year it was ERC opener won by Jan Kopecký infront of Juhö Hänninen and Beppo Harrach. The leaderboard was changing all the time with difficult weather (heavy new snow) and many offs.
In fact the rally is very similar to Monte Carlo. Stages are very similar to for example Saint Bonnet and the weather is usually similar. The difference is that in Jänner narrow snow tyres are allowed even with asphalt basis of the roads.
Here an onboard of Juho ;)
Onboard Hanninen Jänner rally 2012 RZ 16.mp4 - YouTube
as a fan I would really like an ERC event in UK, expecially I find Rally Scotland beautiful :) but yeah, I guess it depends from many things...
Rally-eMag: Sacrifice few minutes to watch this video of Darkstar ;)
Jänner Rallye 2012 [HD] - YouTube
Who says Rally isn't pure fun :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
And also this one: 29 Jänner Rallye 2012 - The Best Of by OesRecords - YouTube
I feel bad for not knowing :P It looks great, Monte Carlo-ish with a nice amount of snow.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Wasn't really a sacrifice :D Looks great, especially the night stages are bad ass!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
In my opinion the calendar that you propose is the most expensive calendar that you can think of. Not only it consists of as many as 12 events, but also contains the most expensive rallies, like Acores, Canarias and Madeira. Let's not repeat mistakes from the past :)Quote:
Originally Posted by pucky54
Because there were only two Finns competing in ERC in the last 20 years ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally-eMag
If it as up to me...
1. Jänner
2. Mille Miglia
3. Tour de Corse
4. Bosphorus
5. Ypres
6. Rajd Polski
7. Barum
8. Sanremo
9. Scotland
10. Valais
Too much asphalt, I know. But I can't skip any of those asphalt events I wrote :)
...as I wrote, only 8 rounds count, so you can leave out the most expensive ones if you want... :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarek Z
I hope there wont be a rule like in IRC, that manufactures have to enter the championship. Otherwise, we risk seeing conflicts again like in Ypres (Snijers who had to start far in his Mini, despite being in the top 5 overall)...
Run Sanremo as a 'mixed' event? Not that it will happen. I'm glad you've included Valais - I really liked that event back in 2008.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
We need one in CZ. What is the difference in character btw Barum and Bohemia?
Maybe 3 rallies North Europe, 3 Mid Europe and 3 South Europe would be fare. 7 best counts.
Sorry but. Azores or Madeira must be in. Azores is probably the best rally gravel in IRC and there are so few gravel rallys... Madeira is one of the oldest rally in ERC, and also a very spectacular and well organized event... I don t say both, but ONE of them must be in
Acores are very far - that is big problem. Madeira as far as I know has had financial problems and could not afford to host IRC.
Both are very different. Bohemia is more technical, more twisty, generally better asphalt quality. For spectators Barum is better. More people, shorter road sections, more access points to the stages and not so extremely strict spectator regulation like in Bohemia. Advantage of Bohemia is Škoda as main sponsor and being spread along the motorway from Prague to Liberec while Zlín is just somewhere at the east without an airport etc. But in Zlín the atmosphere is better. You can see how the city lives the rally. I also find the stages more spectacular for watching.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
My wish list (and I don't care some rallies have budget problems, because it's also FIA orc IRC fault)
Janner
Mille Miglia
Barum
Polski
Ypres
San Marino
Madeira
Antibes
Rally Estonia or something in Scandinavia?
In reserve:
Croatia/Bulgaria
Ireland
Valais
My suggestion for a calendar.
North:
Arctic Rally, Finland - Snow
South Swedish rally, Sweden - Gravel
A Classic RAC rally, UK - Gravel
Central:
Janner Rally, Austria - Mixed Asphalt/Slush
Barum Rally, CZ - Asphalt
Polski rally, Poland, Gravel
South:
Asturias, Spain - Asphalt
San Remo, Italy - Asphalt
Cyprus - mixed Asphalt/Gravel
Criteria:
Good geo spread in Europe mainland.
All 3 surfaces in the calendar
Good rallies for both competitors and spectators.
No Belgium and no France?? Not a good spread in my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
Every calendar without Mille Miglia is a mistake ;-)
Here is the standing for the ERC calendar so far from forum votes. Some got their vote from “it should be in” but most them are from a full list.
Barum End of August / Beginning of September Jänner Beginning of January Rajd Polski End of September Mille Miglia End of April North England / Scotland Beginning of October San Remo Mid October Ypres End of June Madeira Beginning of August Acores End of February Arctic rally End of January Bosphorus Beginning of July Cyprus Beginning of November Estonia End of July San Marino Beginning of July Tour de Corse Beginning of May Valais End of October Canarias Mid March Hellendoorn End of September Ireland Beginning of April Yalta Mid September Antibes End of October South Sweden End of May Asturias Mid September Rally Bulgaria Beginning of June Silven, Bulgaria End of September Targa Florio Mid June Sibiu, Romania End of July Croatia End of May
As seen the top 3 rallies are legendary rallies in Europe and should be in the calendar. They’re also so different rallies (=3). Fast bumpy tarmac, snow tarmac and fast gravel. Ypres is on my list also (=4). A rally in north England and / or south Scotland would be nice witch stages from RAC (=5). I can’t decide which one should be on calendar, San Remo or Mille Miglia (=6). IMO Estonia deserves a rally in ERC (=7). I think Arctic is a little to far away from central Europe but imo there could be another winter rally in Norway (=8). Should there be few rotating events with a calendar of 10-12 rallies and witch gravel rallies should be added?
Rallies from this year ERC or IRC calendar with no votes are the Bulgarian rallies, Targa Florio, Sibiu and Croatia.
Lets say if only one rally per country would be allowed there would be a choice between Mille Miglia and San Remo or they could be run every second year.
Which forum is that?