All teams are corporte at last in a billion dollar sport I would hope so....but McLaren take it to another level... that's not a critism BTW.
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All teams are corporte at last in a billion dollar sport I would hope so....but McLaren take it to another level... that's not a critism BTW.
Try working at McLaren and arranging things the wrong way round as a joke and see how long you last ;) Or maybe walk in without your shirt tucked in.Quote:
Originally Posted by henners88
You need to differentiate between what life is like for the top staff and how it differs from the corporate culture. The practical joke reputation came from Senna/Berger and Dennis two decades ago, however the F1 team and the greater company are extremely tightly run and highly regulated. If you go to the McLaren centre you'll see an incredible attention to detail at all levels which is not achieved through a lax laissez faire attitude. Staff who don't adhere to the myriad regulations do not have a good time.
Also for the drivers I don't think its any secret that life is tougher than at other teams with greater limitations than most for personal sponsorship options and a greater demand put on them for team obligations.
While I don't think any team is particularly lax McLaren by all accounts does take it to an entirely new level.
The staff at McLaren are very professional and a credit to the company but as for being these robots that people imagine???
People must think that the staff at the MTC regenerate each night like the Borg :laugh:
Who said anything about the staff?Quote:
Originally Posted by Knock-on
Corporate culture and whether people have fun in a company are two entirely different things though.Quote:
Originally Posted by henners88
The latter is more down to whether you get on with the people immediately around you. Beyond zero tolerance on bullying there isn't much a company can do to influence that, but its a separate issue from broader corporate culture.
Compare HSBC and RBS (before the crunch) for example. Both similar companies to work for on a day to day level but extremely different corporate cultures especially regarding risk.
You.Quote:
Originally Posted by Malbec
I think you referred to staff that tried to have fun at work or walked with a shirt untucked getting a hard time? This would imply a corporate culture that didn't tolerate any deviation from a strict regime wouldn't it?
They are very professional but they are people as well and all I am saying is that I don't recognise the picture painted on this thread. When you are working with the best F1 team in the world, you get the best people but if you know anything about success, it' all about being in balance, and a team of workaholic robots with no work / life balance, ethical working practice and a healthy social culture is not going to be the enduring success that McLaren has been.
From what I've heard from people who have worked there there is indeed a strict dress code. This doesn't mean an overly strict regime, you'll find many different types of workplace that have equally strict regulations regarding dress.Quote:
Originally Posted by Knock-on
As for staff having fun at work you've clearly misunderstood my post. Read the one above yours.
I agree totally. Nowhere did I suggest otherwise.Quote:
Originally Posted by Knock-on
Martin say that they will support Lewis fully the remainer of the season. I don´t belive it for a minute.
The old say the opposite of what you mean which seems to be prevelant in F1... I can understand a team beginning to place restrictions on a departing driver as the teams will be testing some ideas for the following season and will want to protect that as much as possible, but I would expect the team to back both drivers fully on race weekends.
funny, and extra points for the Borg referenceQuote:
Originally Posted by Knock-on
In all seriousness, Mclaren are as Malbec described it and although I've supported them the past few years, I've been keenly aware that their corporate and overall culture was more Vulcan than human
Nerds! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by truefan72
They will of course support Lewis in the title run in, and should he put himself in the situation where he is genuinely in the title race (say by winning the next 2 races), but the level of support will of course differ from what it would have been if he had re-signed for next year. He may not get in on the development talk and next years car, but he will get equal access to any new parts this year. Should they need Jenson to move over to give him that couple of pointsa that wins the title I think they will, but only when it is the couple of points that makes the difference, I would expect to see it happen before then, whereas if Lewis had stayed on we would have seen a position swap last weekend in Japan.
So he won't be left out in the cold with a crappy version of the car and no development parts, but he may not get the preferential treatment he may have been awarded if he was the sole contender and had stayed. After all, McLaren will desperatley want to win 1 of the 2 champs this year, when they have had arguably the best or equal best car for a large proportion of the season
Maybe they won't support him after all. Very bizzare performances in Japan and Korea. Or maybe he really had bad setup.
They have to.
Ferrari have just taken P2 in the constructors -now that Massa is pulling his weight :)
Well, he had a suspension problem in Japan, and he suffered from graining and very dumb luck in Korea. It's not like he's got a great chance of winning the championship, though...Quote:
Originally Posted by F1boat
Suspension failure in Korea too. Rear anti-roll bar broke on lap 18, according to Martin Whitmarsh.
McLaren really do seem to build a fast car that on it's day can win, but over a season they throw it away.
More and more it seems obvious why Lewis is leaving.
For entertainments sake I'd have liked Lewis to stay, having the odd different winner here and there spices the show up, but if he craves a championship more than the occasional win then squandering it at Merc is as good as any of the other options.
henners
Squandering was a bad choice of word.
Do I think Merc will deliver? No, personally I think they are a peg or three below.
Do I think Lewis is right to try? Totally.
My feeling is it's more likely for Merc to prove me wrong than it is for McLaren to stop making a bridesmaid out of a bride.
Quote:
Originally Posted by henners88
https://twitter.com/thefifthdriver/s...40144435978241Quote:
Martin Whitmarsh: "Lewis' point was probably the hardest won and most heroically fought world championship point in McLaren’s long history."
Odd, when I click the link I says not found. HAS MCLAREN DEFOLLOWFRIENDED ME ???? :(Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1
What a sentimental load of softies you lot are :kiss:
You have a formula one team where a driver is leaving to go to a competitor and expect everyone to be luvvy dovey? I get on OK with my Ex missus but she doesn't feature one iota in my personal life.
McLaren, will support Lewis 100% to do the very best job he can for the team and hopefully secure 2nd in the championship but is it any wonder that personally the team is looking towards the current and future drivers?
I don't know how much of this is true but if Lewis feels a little removed from the inner McLaren family, he needs to man up a bit and be realistic. I will always support him but really???
Get to Mercedes, destroy Nico and fight like crazy to win another Championship. That's what I want to see from Lewis and none of this self indulgent moping that seems to be coming out.
McLaren are getting on with establishing a team that will challenge for the best they can do this year and the 2013 titles, Lewis needs to do the best he can this year and then look to the future.
The Boss is still getting his McLaren setup the way he and his engineer want it. Give me a break with the conspiracy theorys. McLaren are simply dead in the water. They will be lucky to beat Ferrari pilots in the WCC, and that's not saying much. :s tareup:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fi0xN499IXE
Lewis is a great alrounder an no matter what goes on next year he knows this years chance of wdc is out of the window,Martin Whitmarsh isn't behind Lewis and nor has he been since he took over in his new role an whitmarsh has only got himself to blame for the departure of Lewis,for the last 3 seasons now maclaren have given it its all at the beggining of the season then when it's not gone the way whitmarsh was expecting he always changed his statements to we're now concentrating on next years car an Lewis has seen it happen too many times now and a change in his mind has made him move and he'll be thinking that a new place is a new start and a new start means a new peace of mind and a kick start to his career.
Lewis knows that leaving all he's known since he was 13 is a big thing to do but also knows Ross Brawn is no fool,he took Micheal to 5 of the 7 world titles as well as jensans world title and there for Lewis knows although he's leaving an established team as maclaren Ross Brawn will be helping him the best he can an deep down i think Ross Brawns more releaved he's got a world class driver joining his team and yeah if Brawn faces the thruth that yeah micheals a great ambassador for F1 but he's too okd to get another title and Lewis will be the one to do it for his team and that Lewis's team mate will also back Lewis and the team.
Did you ever hear of punctuation? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by shane 2012
to be fair, they really tried today :)
Lewis needs a script .
I read an interview where he said he basically has no chance next year .
His reasoning being , that he isn't involved in developing the car .
He recants slightly , saying that Michael and Nico will be doing a fine job , but he manages to diss a load of people in one fell swoop .
“Obviously I would love to win World Championship next year, but it all depends on how they develop the car,”
“I can’t be part of that development until next year, so the development that’s going on right now I won’t have anything to do with it. But I know Michael will be doing a solid job, and so will Nico.
“But I think the targets are for the future – 2014, 2015 – that’s when the rules change and that’s when I really want to target the World Championship.
“When you move to a new team that’s not been successful, it doesn’t just change like that.
“It takes months and months, maybe 12-14 months, and I anticipate that will be the case.”
Lewis would do well to remember that they have been successful . Perhaps not as Merc yet , but no need to write them off .
Why shouldn't it change just like that ? It did for Jensen at the same team with a different name .
I thought you guys all told me that this guy is a racer .
What the hell is he doing giving up before he's even started this new challenge of his ?
Where does he say that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagwan
He's quoted as saying he'd like to win the championship in 2013. That depends on how Mercedes will develop the car. The development being done now by Michael and Nico is solid, but when a driver moves to a new team it takes time. His main target for the title is 2014/5.
That's not "giving up". That's perfectly realistic IMHO.
I guess my disappointment is with him not taking the opportunity to up his new team .Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1
His target is 14/15 , as you say , but , whether that's realistic or not , why not speculate that it might be a good car ?
It's easily read , if a "realistic" view of what he said is taken , that he sees next year as "realistically' written off , without his input .
I should note as well , that Lewis is touted as being amply able to drive around problems .
Toss in the fact that they've been working with him for years as an engine supplier , and you might imagine they'd have a few of his traces around to look at , which would be a big advantage over bringing in someone they have no idea about .
They can tell a lot about a guy from throttle settings alone .
In that sense , he actually does have some input .
Don't give up , Lewis . It doesn't look so bad at all .
Link? I think you're reading far more into his statements, dude.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagwan
Link , eh ?Quote:
Originally Posted by gloomyDAY
You don't believe it's a direct quote ?
If I was thinking of making it up , don't you think I could have come up with something a little more inflammatory ?
It sounds pretty obvious to me that he's written off next year when he says he's looking at success only after 12-14 months .
If you were working at Merc , designing next year's car , how would you feel having your new guy down-playing his chances because of your design ?
If Hamilton said he was going to win the title with Mercedes next year no doubt he'd be called "arrogant" :rolleyes:
I would not say he is giving up before he has started,I believe he is being realistic .He will not be driving next years Merc until January,and that car will be on the drawing boards now !So he goes to a car that he has had no imput into ,but believe me he will drive the arse off it,and then developments he wants will start,but he cannot have an initial say in the design of next years car from the start.Nico will have to up his game too.And Button ? Well Mc Laren will realise what a big mistake they have made pissing Lewis about !
after today's "electrical failure" why slow man button's car has none
I would say NO!
You weren't watching Button at Monza were you?Quote:
Originally Posted by truefan72
There is no conspiracy, only poor quality control.
McLaren surely has dropped the ball significantly this year (and I don't mean it in terms of "supporting" LH, but general team operations). Reliability-wise they already remind a bit of what they were sometimes 10 or 15 years ago. I think with an excellent reliability Häkkinen should have been up there in the championship in 1997, but he retired like three or four times from the lead. Hamilton's season is reminiscent of that. As a result he is nowhere near the WDC fight, only 5th in the standings, although speed-wise he should be up there.
I find it astonishing that McLaren is behind Ferrari in WCC, considering, how much Massa has been struggling this season and how McLaren has often been able to qualify at the front.
well saidQuote:
Originally Posted by jens
Season 2000 was also horrific, Mika suffered something like 10 retirements, if I am not mistaken...Quote:
Originally Posted by jens
a bit of the silver mist in my eyes, but this is beyond ridiculousQuote:
Originally Posted by Matthew
and that poor quality control in the last 5 races seems rather lopsided
electrical failure
phantom transmission problems
mechanical failures
etc, etc, etc.
I think Hamilton has made the right decision.
We'll see about that. Mercedes sucked mightily in this race again.
I think you have 2001 in mind. :) Yes, that was a pretty terrible season for Mika, including the legendary last-lap retirement in Spain...Quote:
Originally Posted by F1boat
Well... While McLaren is still clearly better than Mercedes, Hamilton must have a funny feeling. He either has a fast car, which is unreliable and inconsistent. Or a car, which is just plain slow. He might have thoughts like "Wasn't there really an opening in Red Bull, Ferrari or Lotus?"Quote:
Originally Posted by truefan72
But the good thing for him is that he can leave McLaren with a positive feeling despite those DNFs! By this I mean that while Mercedes is not great, he knows that McLaren isn't either, so he isn't going to miss out on multiple championship titles by making the switch.