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That is a question that I can't answer. However the thing that disappoints me the most about Bubba is that as the Governor of Arkansas, and The Prez, he was really into skanky biatches. He could have learned a thing or two from John, and Bobby Kennedy. At least they were hitting some fine trim.Quote:
Originally Posted by Starter
It's not difficult to understand, posts which are along the lines of "are you stupid or what" aren't acceptable. Unfortunately it seems all political threads go this way :(Quote:
Originally Posted by janvanvurpa
President Clinton did a great job at the Democratic convention last night.
I'm really looking forward to the debates.
California is a strange thing. It used to be traditionally Republican and then blinked red-blue-red through the terms of LBJ, JFK and Nixon. Coupled with the state's crippling financial woes is a general feeling that Obama didn't do what he said he would do. I don't think that there's been this much vitriol flying about since the days of Carter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Giacomo Rappaccini
The biggest issues of this campaign will be unemployment and the national debt, which less than 4 hours ago (at time of posting this), hit $16 trillion.
File:2008prescountymap.PNG - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
If you look at a county by county map, California aint as blue as first thought. I'm trying to find a booth-by-booth set of stats, but I bet that the GOP will be campaining harder for turnout than the Democrats will. Admittedly the only polls which matter are on Nov 6 and Dec 17, even so, the last serious statewide poll was done almost 2 months ago.
I hope that Obama will win, but to be honest, Romney is like an angel next to crazy monsters like Santorum or Rick Perry...
And that's the kind of voter was the Republican platform tailored to appeal to!
50 minute speech:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzDhk3BHi6Q
And
http://factcheck.org/2012/09/our-clinton-nightmare/Quote:
Former President Bill Clinton’s stem-winding nomination speech was a fact-checker’s nightmare: lots of effort required to run down his many statistics and factual claims, producing little for us to write about. Republicans will find plenty of Clinton’s scorching opinions objectionable. But with few exceptions, we found his stats checked out.
No whatever your name is, not only from certain posters, from many. Some just are moral cowards and attempt to hide behind a facade of politeness and artifice----and write angry obscenity filled PMs displaying their true narrow minded and rage filled reality..Quote:
Originally Posted by Starter
Moralistic Poseurs and we all know who they are, don't we?
Quote:
Originally Posted by race aficionado
Me too - I thought Clinton did excellent and also Warren was right there too. I really think it will come down to "Class Warfare" and in the
end I suspect Obama will win the election. I have always maintained that "a pig gets fatter and a hog gets slaughtered" Many of the rich and rich
corporations have become "Hogs" while leaving the middle class for dead. It could really bite them in the ass for many years to come.
If anybody is interested to see the seriously horrible degree of calculated hypocrisy that the Willard Robme campaign is built on, specifically him wailing about the costs of preventing, right or wrong, the complete meltdown of the US---and much of the rest of the industrialised world---financial system, the mock horror at massive Federal debt--reflect for a moment how "earned' his hundreds of millions---leveraged buy outs..
You folks understand how leveraged buy outs function?
Borrowed money. Bain puts up say 5 million, borrows 175 million from cronies, and "invests in" enough stock to control a carefully chosen , high cash flow company, then Bain doesn't pay back the borrowed capital, the victim company is saddled with the full debt.
And millions per year for the 'work' of putting the deal together--more debt.
And millions per year for Bain to "manage" the company..
Debt is just another word for capital.
Here's a couple of articles explaining how generally the leveraged buyout deals work and specifically how Romney's Bain Capital carried out their 'work":
The Federal Bailout That Saved Mitt Romney
Government documents prove the candidate's mythology is just that
The Federal Bailout That Saved Mitt Romney | Politics News | Rolling Stone
That one is great. With actual documents obtained under the Freedom of Information Act it shows how when Bain swooped up a failed New england bank included all assets and liabilities, Bain refused to pay out any money to depositors and fought with FDIC, the Federal Depositor Insurance Corporation who wanted Bain to use its cash on hand to pay depositors, and how Bain clained they couldn't... and then so they would not have any cash, paid Romney and a couple of the other partners "bonuses' amounting to all their cash--25 millions here and 27 millions there---and then said "we don't have any cash" and how FDIC was forced to pay the whole amount out of the insurance fund---which all banks buy into---and pass along the cost to depositors.
and
Greed and Debt: The True Story of Mitt Romney and Bain Capital
How the GOP presidential candidate and his private equity firm staged an epic wealth grab, destroyed jobs – and stuck others with the bill
Greed and Debt: The True Story of Mitt Romney and Bain Capital | Politics News | Rolling Stone
Take the time and read both, its just 10 minutes.
Rollo I implore you, put away your statistical analysis I have lived here since I was six years old, 1960. California is a very large place. I don't need to look at PDF's to know for instance that San Diego and Orange County were bastions of Conservatives, without even looking at your link. If you lived here you would know this just by reading Op-Ed’s in great Newspapers like the LA Times and The Sacramento Bee. Just listen for a change I don't want to make this into a protracted explanation, so I will tell you some things you may or may not know. People that vote Liberal are generally more educated, and less rural. There has been a huge migration to California of people with upward mobility, (which for the most part require higher education)the vast majority embrace the laid back attitudes here and are very different than the wealthy in other areas of my country, because it is not the same kind of rat race, and move here for no other reason than our temperate climate. Contrary to what outsiders may think, the richest Californians are quite Liberal and also benevolent enough to never back the former head of Bain Capital, to say nothing of the fact that his policies positions are still very nebulous at this late stage in the election process. San Diego not that long ago had a large plurality of military, and further back not too much further a majority, very Conservative.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollo
The Northern 1/2 of California is and has for as long as I remember been to state broadly militantly radical left. It’s no secret that San Francisco, particularly the Castro District is peopled with “Pole Smokers”, “Pillow Biters”, “Butt Pirates”, and "Barnacle Bumpers". I think you know where their sympathies lie. Costal Southern California (except communities around M.C.S. Camp Pendleton and several Air force Bases in the Southern California Desert) are high-end and for the most part left leaning. African Americans and recently naturalized Latin’s, almost all Mexican or from points south are strongly on board with the Democrats. I apologize for going over the top with you in my last post but here is reality. I haven’t read either one of the links you provided because I have and continue to live the experience. This may sound very obtuse to someone who is pedantic like you, but I offer no apologies for that. If you want to discuss whatever talking points that are included in the data you provided you should put out feelers for some else to discuss them with I don't have the time to educate the world on the history of the demographics of my home "The Great State of California"
Rollo, I have lived in California for some years, and nostra caro Dottore is right on in his descriptions of the demography of that skinny state.
There are some viscious "I hate everbody 'cept baby jeebus" types in California, but an extreme minority--interestingly primarily what's called 'the Republican core' which is: high school education only, older white males in service or farming trades.
Personally it seems to me to be you'll find these "I hate everybody 'cept baby Jeebus" types in areas directly dependant on an abundance of extremely low cost, usually undocumented workers , which is ironic as those types are constantly barking at people about how they "did everything themselves and nobody ain't never helped me with no handouts" (like the worlds largest water distribution system, or highways, or electricity to water, process and transport the crops the poor Mexicans did the labor to grow, oh no, Nobody ever helped them with anything)
One little note: way back when---in the 1960s in the now affluent suburban area called "Orange County" I heard my relatives there refer to Richard Nixon as "that liberal boy from Whittier". plus ca change, eh? )
On that note ... why is it that the "genius" Obama has never released any of his school records? What is he hiding?Quote:
Originally Posted by janvanvurpa
Could be nothing. Could be that he's really not the "genius" he want everyone to believe he is. Could be something completely different .....Quote:
Originally Posted by janvanvurpa
My first reaction to this post was: "What does this have to do with it being vital information on this election cycle?"Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck34
So I went to good ol' Saint Google and got this:
FactCheck.org : Obama’s ‘Sealed’ Records
Next . . . . .
When did I say his records were sealed? I didn't. That's not the issue. College records, and tax returns are not required to be released by Presidential candidates, yet most have voluntarily released both in past elections. Yet we're supposed to believe that Obama is a "genius" and Romney is a "tax cheating fellon" with no proof either way.Quote:
Originally Posted by race aficionado
And yes I do think that Romney should release more of his tax returns as well as his college records (which I don't believe he has yet).
Land of the free? Keep dreamin'.Quote:
Originally Posted by FIAT1
I don't give a damn what your political affiliation is but I want to know if there is a man woman or child that saw Gaby Gifford recite "The Pledge of Allegiance" at the DNC that was not moved to tears?
Bring on the debates!
Let's move to the one on ones and let's fact check every fact (or made up fact) that comes from their mouths.
Barak dropped the gloves tonight, and and told Mitt "I'm the Champ, I hold the title" and if you think you can kick my @ss, I'm giving you fair warning I will do a tap dance on your face! ;) Kidding
John Kerry knocked one out of the park tonight. I didn't see that one comming! :up:
I thought Obama did very well tonite - the critics say he had nothing in the speech. As I saw it he was rallying the havenots against the richQuote:
Originally Posted by race aficionado
while not giving anything to Romney to attack on. Pretty clever if you ask me. Class Warfare is the issue and I am not sure Mitt gets it.
I suspect it will take much more than "trickle down" to overtake Obama.
:up:Quote:
Originally Posted by Roamy
Damn, mang I knew you was trolling with all your "kill them all" stuff. You can think, too! Will wonders never cease.
Good for you. :up:
This is perfect example how I like nothing better than people waving flags of foreign countries in front of my face and lecturing me about my freedom.Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
.
You sir are far more malleable than I ever dreamed you were. Then again anyone that is practiced in the art of fly fishing is by nature a contemplative man. I thought the greatest line spoken by The President of the United States of America was spoken when he summoned the words of the greatest President in the history of the USA in my educated opinion….Abraham Lincoln:Quote:
Originally Posted by Roamy
“I’ve been driven to my knees many times by the overwhelming conviction that I had nowhere else to go"
Battle Hymn of the Republic - London 2001 - YouTube
Quote:
Originally Posted by FIAT1
That's good. Because from reading what little I have of what you write it seems that you may not have much to compare "your Freedom™'" with, so that's very helpful of them.
You see, some, mostly ignorantes or people who never refelct for more than maybe max 1 second on anything, never really think about the idea of "freedom" and just bark and wail about it----often in a mildly aggressive and hint of aggressive tone..
But just like the idjits who while smacking their chewing gum say in the most grating voice "I expect quality ___________(car, burger, loo paper,whatever) " with thinking the word quality is useless without a modifier like "high" or "good", so wail and growl some about "Freedom" without a seconds reflection, or anything to measure it against...
Indeed, despite the troublesome thoughts that there is "Freedom from......." and "freedom to.....", effectively the word in USA has become a trademark, a code word, and the use is usually without any thought at all.....its all "implied".....presumably..
So you should be happy all those nice foreigners are kind enough to take the time to help give you some depth and something to compare your idea with their idea.. :love:
Quote:
Originally Posted by janvanvurpa
Hmm, if it isn't self appointed profit of liberal agenda traying to say helo to me. Greatings!
Helo again, spelling correction!Quote:
Originally Posted by FIAT1
Clearly you need lots and lots of elucidation. It seems you have suffered from a lack of the values that mark a modern civilized society, education being a cornerstone, and I wouldn't agree I am a 'profit', although I do try and earn a profit with all the long hour I put in manufacturing all those suspension parts, but maybe I can be accused of being a prophet of progressive policies...Quote:
Originally Posted by FIAT1
You have something against 8 hour day? free public education? Unemployment insurance? Workmans compensation for injuries? Clean water? Clean air, equal protection under the law? The right to vote---without you having to take a literacy test which looking at the misspelling in your off hand sentances amount to around 25-30% misspelled word I fear you would fail...
You have something against any that stuff?
It is progressive politics that built this country and made the widespread mass middle class so big.
And as long as this country followed Progressive policies, the middle class was secure---and grew.
You have something against a secure life for the majority of the country?
That's why Obama is so disappointing, because he is far far to the right of what the policies of even moderate Republicans were a generation ago just to get his policy proposals stonewalled by so called Conservatives..people evidently like you..
Why do you hate America?
Quote:
Originally Posted by janvanvurpa
One have to be careful ,as it is very tempting to respond and engage in to political debate of one's party association and believes, therefore I will politely excuse myself from the present conversation with anyone with schoolyard bully mentality ,who is trying to play misplaced patriotism card , especially those who use rolling stone magazine as sorce of information on current affairs. I bid you a good day.
Rolling Stone is a credible source.
I prefer the Beatles :angel: . . . . . and yes, the magazine is a credible responsible source.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Giacomo Rappaccini
Perhaps, like every other media outlet ,blog or magazine promoting their own agenda. Don't take me wrong here, but I'm always suspicious of anything written by one for many, and I don't care who they are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Giacomo Rappaccini
Evidently you don't believe in whatever it is you believe in to even put forth a minimal effort at describing why or what you believe in in the context of this important election..Quote:
Originally Posted by FIAT1
Very strange idea you have about what a discussion forum is all about since your point is "I refuse to discuss anything with anybody who i believe disagrees with what I am thinking " (because you certainly have not written anything at all).
Yep you must be a conservative.
And rather than lamely dismissing the information---including real documents----in the articles ---clearly without having even clicked the links---counter them. Discuss the content..
Few things are more emblematic of the reasons for the paralyzing polarization in my country than the "I don't know about what that article says, I'm not going to even look at that article, but I know its not true, so i won't even look at it."
Again, why do you hate America?
It's not hate it is greed. I worked cutting, and finishing marble and granite for the largest granite, and marble company in San Diego. Our products were installed all over this country and many others by our installers. There was a large contingent of first generation American/Italians that were very talented in this field as you can imagine.Quote:
Originally Posted by janvanvurpa
Considering my personal ancestry it pains me to say that these were some of the greediest thieving people I've ever known. Many relatively inexpensive accessories had to be locked away because of the rate that they were stolen.
^^^^Italian/Americans some were legal alien status, who were probably innocent pawns!
http://www.alicia-logic.com/capsimag...JonesMikey.jpg
Did you ever come to think about Americans who worked two shifts for years, borrowed money from friends to start little buisness. Did you ever think of people who are traying to survive in this in environment by mortgaging their house and not sleeping at night of worries what's next. Did you ever think of people not letting couple employees go because they have kids in college. I thought so. This American is tired of cute speeches, false hopes and empty promises from every angle.This American doesn't have education of his children and knows how to miss spell word here and there, but this American doesn't need magazine ,or forum propaganda to awaken the senses when it come to love of this country. Before you start pointing fingers and label me by some missguided political view. Before you shoot from the hip ,please think.Quote:
Originally Posted by janvanvurpa
Interesting. The most greedy thief I've ever met was the cab driver that I traveled with from 'Glasgow' Prestwick to the actual city of Glasgow. He wanted to over-charge the fee once he found I was charging the ride to my employer, taking some of the extra for himself and giving me an even higher priced receipt so I could make a bit as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Giacomo Rappaccini
On the other hand he was dead honest about it.
Sounds like pretty much the same game doesn't it? Do great work for your employer. Steal customers that would have paid more if they were actually going through your employer, and give the customer the same product at a reduced cost while increasing your own take.
It was quite a network they had going as the exspensive product, the vast inventory of granite and mable slab that couldn't be locked awaywas secreted on to company trucks leaving for legitimate Company jobs.
Yeah what he said, except all the pronouns changed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Starter
dismiss everything without ever looking ..PM your friends so they can gang up and say harumph harumph..
And be a pawn your whole life long.
Yeah AntonioQuote:
Originally Posted by FIAT1
Of course I think of them, I'm one of them. last 7 years I'm up from whenever to sometimes past midnight. Until just about 2 1/2 years ago I was and should have been disabled for almost anything other than standing so i concentrated on machining---making things out of metal..
My personal joke is "Yeah on Christmas I only work 1/2 day: 12 hours"
0730 to midnight 30 is more than 2 shifts in my book.
And I've worked in producing things parts tools machinery for 43 years, except a little break racing motorcycles for a living----which led all those years later to fawked up vertebrae in 2 places, ripped up knees ( 7th knee operation one week ago)
and still working even if I could not see straight..
I have kids, and I have a wife, and a house (bought at 50, first house) .
That is why I work.
I agitate because I want an economy that allows people to buy my products which we had the previous time when we had a Democratic President and a less ideological Conress.
I am not doubting your or anybody's love of country---regardless if you, with an obvious big chip on your shoulder claims I am..
I am saying that you might want to click this links, read the articles---you can read this sheeet, then you can read that---and read how the man whose only card he can really try and throw down is "Obabma increased the deficient by xx %" and smugly claiming that he is a genius at business---when in fact he's a common ordinary financial manipulator who made money by transferring debt to companies and charging outrageous fees and made profit if the business ---and the advice---worked OR NOT.
You don't get paid if you don't do the work--produce something--of whatever you do.
I don't get paid if I don't make the rally car struts and engines that WORK.
He became fabulously wealthy singing convincing songs to businesses in trouble, and bleeding his company's fees whether the place went broke or not---and by passing the debt burden that Bain took out to finace their leveraged buyouts, crushed many companies.....and once they went broke, Bain walked away from the leveraged debt.
Can you do that with debts? just walk away?
I can't.
THEY can
HE did.
No man is an island unto himself, you cannot accomplish much alone none of us can, and you cannot spend the time researching by yourself who this smooth talking born-rich boy is. That is why we read.
Did you ever think of people not letting couple employees go because they have kids in college. I thought so. This American is tired of cute speeches, false hopes and empty promises from every angle.This American doesn't have education of his children and knows how to miss spell word here and there, but this American doesn't need magazine ,or forum propaganda to awaken the senses when it come to love of this country. Before you start pointing fingers and label me by some missguided political view. Before you shoot from the hip ,please think.[/QUOTE]
In case you are having trouble connecting the dots I offer my humble assistance. Like Lincoln with the same words Obama admits he has had failings. As for the video:Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Rappaccini
Isn't it sad that all the good will that was shown the USA after 9/11 was squandered by Bush/Cheney/Neo Cons. I hold this in stark contrast to 1991 when Bush Sr. who for reasons that those who understand American Civics I detested, at least had the type of advisors to stop the first gulf war after a real coalition liberated Kuwait (their oil at least, and thier sovereignty) and cut Saddam Hussein’s balls off, leaving Clinton (who like all men had failings) to only have to lob a cruise missile in when Iraq thought they could violate the "No Fly Zone"
I present the following video after that war in stark contrast.
Whitney Houston - Battle Hymn Of The Republic (WHH) - YouTube
Considering Obama has been much worse that Bush(Hell he is battling with Carter for worst pres ever), Your premise is flawed.Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan