Who thinks Schumacher finally should retire?

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Originally Posted by N4D13

Of course... one shouldn't rely much on statistics. Hamilton used to have a rather large win percentage in his first seasons, but since then, it has been reduced considerably. Meanwhile, Vettel's win percentage increased noticeably in 2012, but still... do you know who's the active driver with the largest podium percentage (after Schumacher)? It's neither Hamilton nor Vettel - Alonso, then Räikkönen. You can always try to read into some pieces of data, but they don't always tell the bigger picture.

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you know it, stats are only PART of the big picture,
and in the big picture, Fangio Rules!! still the best!
even schumi said that. as for schumi in the big picture, yes he had talent but it's hard to call him the best yet. he was lucky to have a great car when others had crap, a points system that blew him to the top by the third race, and he pulled manuevers that he wouldn't accept if someone did them to him. in the big picture he's an average driver; other contemporaries like coultard or hakkinen would have the same record if they had had the same car. get rid of him! i notice he's very silent on the issue illegal electronic aids in his car. Forever Fangio!

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Originally Posted by lotus rules

you know it, stats are only PART of the big picture,
and in the big picture, Fangio Rules!! still the best!
even schumi said that. as for schumi in the big picture, yes he had talent but it's hard to call him the best yet. he was lucky to have a great car when others had crap, a points system that blew him to the top by the third race, and he pulled manuevers that he wouldn't accept if someone did them to him. in the big picture he's an average driver; other contemporaries like coultard or hakkinen would have the same record if they had had the same car. get rid of him! i notice he's very silent on the issue illegal electronic aids in his car. Forever Fangio!

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How can you claim that a man who physically wouldn't even fit in a modern F1 car is a better driver than Schumacher or whoever? How do you know whether he would have been able to achieve the levels of physical fitness required to complete a race these days given his age when he won his championships in his own day? How can you be so confident that he would master the electronics and system management skills also essential these days? You can't. Just as you couldn't know how hard or aggressive Schumacher would have been back in Fangio's day knowing that an accident probably meant death.

Motorsport is technology dependent and the sport has changed beyond recognition. Beyond the ability to merely drive fast the skillsets required have changed completely. It is therefore nearly impossible to compare drivers from the very beginning of the F1 era with the modern day, let alone claim that one is superior to the other.

I'm not denigrating Fangio, he was fantastic but you cannot claim that he was the best ever. We simply don't know because we can't compare.

lotusrules, when you said that Michael and Mika are average, for me your post lost credibility. You like drivers of old, I can understand that. But to degrade two of the best drivers in modern era is ridiculous. Different times, different circumstances. For me, what Michael did with Ferrari is the greatest. You think different. That's why we have opinions. For facts we have statistics.

Sorry guys but what Fangio has to do with this topic ? :confused:

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Originally Posted by Rollo

Schumacher's record as far as I'm concerned is completely irrelevant to whether or not he should retire. From Mercedes-Benz' perspective, it should be about putting the best set of components to go racing with. To that end, the question needs to be asked is:

"Is Schumacher the best component currently available" - I think "No".

Realistically the best asnwer to that question is probably Gary Paffett who is under contract to HWA AG. Daimler AG could pull rank and put him into a Mercedes-Benz with very little effort.

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:rotflmao:

Garry Paffett couldn't hold a candle to a 43 years old MS.
What a stupid thread BTW.

I'll answer it now, no he shouldn't retire just yet.

Yes, he should be immediately replaced by drivers like Paffett or De La Rosa.

Grandpa got Pole :eek:

I'll eat my hat :bandit:

Unless of course it was due to the stoopid Pirelli tyre lottery eh ioan ? :p

Fantastic lap from Schumacher. There have been signs of the old spark returning this year and hopefully we're beginning to see the start of the fire burning for Schumacher again. If at 43 he can win a race that would be something unbelievable. He certainly deserves to be on pole tomorrow. Shame about the penalty.

who is michael schumacher?

one fastest lap on a track suitable for the car and well-known from the years doesnt mean anything. his return is still a disaster, he only spoiled his image.

Well he shouldn't retire before tomorrow that's for sure :D

Ms schooled the youngsters today, what a lap!

He still got atleast that onelap speed.

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Originally Posted by Mia 01

Ms schooled the youngsters today, what a lap!

He still got atleast that onelap speed.

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Imo his vast experience should in theory serve him better over a full race distance than his one lap pace (especially around a track like Monaco) when you take his age and slowing reflexes into account.

I never was a great fan of Michael mainly due to his agressive and often dangerous driving but a single lap like that around such a demanding circuit and at his age quicker (In pretty much equal machinery) than the very best young drivers gets my full respect.

One of his favorite circuits.
And his best ever quali, IMO, was the 1996 Monaco GP:

F1 Schumacher Monaco Monte Carlo 1996 The best Qualifying lap ever - YouTube

His best performance IMO was 2006 :p

Well done for pole, idiot for hitting Senna though and wasting this oppotunity to lead the race from the start and maybe win. Interesting behaviour of MS at Spain with Lewis as shown on the BBC coverage today. He deliberately cut the track to block Lewis, when i reality Lewis had blocked him. MS would have been in the right, but we all know two wrongs dont make a right.

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Originally Posted by ioan

One of his favorite circuits.
And his best ever quali, IMO, was the 1996 Monaco GP:

F1 Schumacher Monaco Monte Carlo 1996 The best Qualifying lap ever - YouTube

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It was certainly up there but I honestly felt that Malaysia 99 was as good as it gets. Taking pole by I think 9 tenths of a second. Masterful.

All is well in ioanworld :D Schumi's on pole and F1 is as it should be again ;)

Except he's not, and his car is silver and it's a lottery anyway because of those hopeless Pirellis :dozey:

You're way to predictable grumpy ol' man.
Just for your personal info I don't give a damn about F1, but I effin' enjoy to rub it in to MS hatters. :laugh:

and you don't mean the MS mad hatters, do you? :p

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Originally Posted by donKey jote

His best performance IMO was 2006 :p

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I guess it was the parking manoeuvre that made the difference :p :

I'm happy for Mike Shoe. He can still muster the good stuff.

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Originally Posted by ioan

I effin' enjoy to rub it in to MS hatters. :laugh:

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lolwut

http://www.alice-in-wonderland.net/a...d-hatter-4.jpg

Michael should have been starting on pole today but for a dubious penalty.

Never was much of a fan but it would be great to see him win again.

http://mwittmann.wippiespace.com/schumi.gif

Again poor luck...

Terribly unlucky all weekend, he deserved a lot more.

It's his fourth retirement in six races, and at least two of them haven't come through his own fault - China and Monaco. I remember him crashing into Senna at Montmeló as well, so which one am I missing?

Edit: gearbox failure in Australia, I think. This guy can't catch a break...

In four out of six races so far, the team has screwed Schumacher royally - the above car retirements, plus Bahrain qualifying. Add to that the Mercedes' poor race performance in Malaysia, and you've got that he's only had a chance to do something in a single race, Montmeló, in which he crashed into Senna. I don't think anyone can blame him at this point.

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Originally Posted by N4D13

It's his fourth retirement in six races, and at least two of them haven't come through his own fault - China and Monaco. I remember him crashing into Senna at Montmeló as well, so which one am I missing?

Edit: gearbox failure in Australia, I think. This guy can't catch a break...

In four out of six races so far, the team has screwed Schumacher royally - the above car retirements, plus Bahrain qualifying. Add to that the Mercedes' poor race performance in Malaysia, and you've got that he's only had a chance to do something in a single race, Montmeló, in which he crashed into Senna. I don't think anyone can blame him at this point.

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Agreed. He has made one mistake this year and that was in Spain. Other than that I think he and Rosberg have been pretty evenly matched honestly. Rosberg was ahead in China, Schumacher was ahead in Spain and Malaysia. It's 3-3 in qualifying statistics. Not too bad for an old timer.

Ridiculous that he had another failure this weekend. I think we're beginning to see a resurgence in form though. He is looking better and better.

Mercedes seem very good team with Nico and easily the worst team with Michael. That's a little bit suspicious. Maybe there are team members who hate MS from the past? In three seasons almost all the problems happened with the car of Michael.

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Originally Posted by F1boat

Mercedes seem very good team with Nico and easily the worst team with Michael. That's a little bit suspicious. Maybe there are team members who hate MS from the past? In three seasons almost all the problems happened with the car of Michael.

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He actually did blow it out after the 2010 season, that his car was different then rosbergs on some occasions, I hope his luck changes now, but atleast the fact remains, however much he has slowed down in competitive machinery he can still hold his own, just before today's retirement he was lapping a second a lap faster then Massa, and had cut his lead from 22seconds to 16seconds, feel bad for him, in free air he was probably faster then anyone today.

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Originally Posted by N4D13

It's his fourth retirement in six races......

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There's a name for a driver with a string of bad luck like this. What was it again that the Ferrari fans used to call Kimi back in his McLaren days?
Ah yes, I remember now - Car Breaker.

That was really unlucky for Schumi. Considering Rosberg was right at the tail of Webber in the end and Schumi should have started from pole, he may well have even won the race had the weekend gone uncompromised!

But when it comes to retiring, I have to maintain the previously made point that in future seasons the important thing is long-term perspective rather than current form...

Coming back to current season and string of unluck. It reminds me a bit of what happened ten years ago, but in reversed roles. In the first five races of the season Barrichello finished only once (!) in the all-conquering Ferrari, while Schumacher was running away with the championship. Now Rosberg has opened a big gap in the points with even a remote shot at the title.

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Originally Posted by F1boat

Mercedes seem very good team with Nico and easily the worst team with Michael. That's a little bit suspicious. Maybe there are team members who hate MS from the past? In three seasons almost all the problems happened with the car of Michael.

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Don't be like those one of those posters who idolize MS to the degree that they post and actually think such stuff.
MS has some bad luck, okay, he had wonderful luck at Ferrari. Sometimes just those things happen in racing.
The main thing for him is that he is on pace (well, with those absolute joke tyres things aren't that clear).

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Originally Posted by Garry Walker

Don't be like those one of those posters who idolize MS to the degree that they post and actually think such stuff.
MS has some bad luck, okay, he had wonderful luck at Ferrari. Sometimes just those things happen in racing.
The main thing for him is that he is on pace

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I don't think that he is currently the best driver in F1, but I do think that Mercedes are highly unprofessional when preparing his car, to the point that conspiracy theories almost look credible.

Schumacher's disastrous return to F1 makes me think how unbelievably important is to have "suitable" rules and regulations and how easily drivers and teams may change from hero to zero.

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Originally Posted by SlowSon

Schumacher's disastrous return to F1 makes me think how unbelievably important is to have "suitable" rules and regulations and how easily drivers and teams may change from hero to zero.

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Schumacher himself has been anything but a disaster this year. 3-3 on qualifying ratio with Nico. Got a pole in Monaco.

He has been let down by the team 4 out of 6 races this year. Malaysia he got spun on the first lap by Grosjean I think. None through his own doing except Spain. Were it not for Mercedes blunders he'd probably been in a hunt for the championship and you say he has been disastrous? Not on your life man. He has actually really impressed me again this year. We all know he won't be the Schumacher of old again but he is proving this year that he deserves his place on the grid.

Mercedes have been the disaster this year, not Schumacher.

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Originally Posted by The Black Knight

Schumacher himself has been anything but a disaster this year. 3-3 on qualifying ratio with Nico. Got a pole in Monaco.

He has been let down by the team 4 out of 6 races this year. Malaysia he got spun on the first lap by Grosjean I think. None through his own doing except Spain. Were it not for Mercedes blunders he'd probably been in a hunt for the championship and you say he has been disastrous? Not on your life man. He has actually really impressed me again this year. We all know he won't be the Schumacher of old again but he is proving this year that he deserves his place on the grid.

Mercedes have been the disaster this year, not Schumacher.

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THIS year? Mercedes is just this year providing him with a competetive car capable of wins. Save for the season as Brawn where they had a decided technical advantage for more than half the year and Button managed to hold on to his point lead, that team has been a disaster no matter what it has been named. Had Schummi returned to F1 in a RedBull or a McLaren three years ago, I suspect we'd be talking about an 8 time WDC.

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Originally Posted by nigelred5

THIS year? Mercedes is just this year providing him with a competetive car capable of wins. Save for the season as Brawn where they had a decided technical advantage for more than half the year and Button managed to hold on to his point lead, that team has been a disaster no matter what it has been named. Had Schummi returned to F1 in a RedBull or a McLaren three years ago, I suspect we'd be talking about an 8 time WDC.

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Considering his performances in 2010 and 2011, I believe that's way too much to say. He's raised his game in 2012, but he wasn't a match for Rosberg in 2010 and 2011.

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Originally Posted by nigelred5

THIS year? Mercedes is just this year providing him with a competetive car capable of wins. Save for the season as Brawn where they had a decided technical advantage for more than half the year and Button managed to hold on to his point lead, that team has been a disaster no matter what it has been named. Had Schummi returned to F1 in a RedBull or a McLaren three years ago, I suspect we'd be talking about an 8 time WDC.

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Not to imply he was a disaster last year either but he wasn't at the performance level he is now and was unable to live with Nico over the previous two years.

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Originally Posted by nigelred5

THIS year? Mercedes is just this year providing him with a competetive car capable of wins. Save for the season as Brawn where they had a decided technical advantage for more than half the year and Button managed to hold on to his point lead, that team has been a disaster no matter what it has been named. Had Schummi returned to F1 in a RedBull or a McLaren three years ago, I suspect we'd be talking about an 8 time WDC.

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If car#7 has problems in almost every race, it doesn't matter how competitive it is pacewise. Merc are doing fine with Nico, but what is happening to Michael is a disgrace, unbelievable.