2012 Australian Grand Prix Thread - Official

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Originally Posted by F1boat

Honestly I don't understand why people hate the DRS. In my opinion the racing had become much better than before.

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I know why I hate DRS. In a battle for position during a GP one driver being able to open a flap doesn't show skill, ability or racecraft. It just shows he can press a button.

That's not better racing IMHO, it's just more overtakes.

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

I know why I hate DRS. In a battle for position during a GP one driver being able to open a flap doesn't show skill, ability or racecraft. It just shows he can press a button.

That's not better racing IMHO, it's just more overtakes.

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My sentiments exactly. It's a load of c*ck.

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

I know why I hate DRS. In a battle for position during a GP one driver being able to open a flap doesn't show skill, ability or racecraft. It just shows he can press a button.

That's not better racing IMHO, it's just more overtakes.

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Absolutely. Even a reverse grid race — something I don't think is suitable for F1 either — offers more opportunity for driver skill to shine than does DRS.

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Originally Posted by F1boat

Honestly I don't understand why people hate the DRS. In my opinion the racing had become much better than before. For example I liked last season better than 2010. In 2010 the battle for the championship was huge, but in races the only tension came from the reliability issues with the Red Bull. In 2011 Seb obliterated the rest of the field, but the races were quite dramatic. Some say that this things are artificial. So be it. I prefer exciting racing, even if it is spiced - like the WTCC and the BTCC then boring, processional "pure" racing - like, say, the DTM.

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Stuff like reverse grids, success ballast, etc might be all very well for touring car championships, but not F1. As it happens, I believe touring car racing would be exciting enough without such gimmicks, as proved by the start-of-season races when all the cars are at base weight, but that's another discussion.

If I can offer a suggestion to anyone else who feels frustrated by DRS: try to forget about the effect it has on overtaking. Yes really :) Instead focus on the positive effect: the guy who is fastest will probably win the race.

Before, being fastest was no good if you got stuck in the Trulli Train, or your pit strategy gave you bad track position. DRS might not be the right solution, but is it worse than the problem it replaced?

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Originally Posted by AndyL

If I can offer a suggestion to anyone else who feels frustrated by DRS: try to forget about the effect it has on overtaking. Yes really :) Instead focus on the positive effect: the guy who is fastest will probably win the race.

Before, being fastest was no good if you got stuck in the Trulli Train, or your pit strategy gave you bad track position. DRS might not be the right solution, but is it worse than the problem it replaced?

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This point of view would be all very well were there no other solutions to those problems.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

This point of view would be all very well were there no other solutions to those problems.

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I don't think the possibility of much better alternatives invalidates the point I was making.

Suppose I hate pears, can tolerate apples, and love bananas. If I have an apple, I can still wish I had a banana, but it might do me good to remember that at least it's not a pear.

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Originally Posted by AndyL

Instead focus on the positive effect: the guy who is fastest will probably win the race.

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But perhaps it is good if the fastest doesn't necessarily win? If the pacesetter hits trouble and drops behind other cars, it would provide some excitement that he is finding it very difficult to work his way back to the front again instead of easing past everyone and regaining his "rightful" position.

Also the problem is that DRS reduces the possibilities of surprise results. Kubica's 2010 Australian and Schumacher's 2011 Canadian GP's were quite similar, but the result was different due to DRS. With DRS Kubica would have never finished on podium as he had several cars behind him and all would have passed. Kubica's defending even forced Hamilton to an alternative strategy, which cost him the race, but also gave more variety and excitement in the process.

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Originally Posted by AndyL

If I can offer a suggestion to anyone else who feels frustrated by DRS: try to forget about the effect it has on overtaking. Yes really :) Instead focus on the positive effect: the guy who is fastest will probably win the race.

Before, being fastest was no good if you got stuck in the Trulli Train, or your pit strategy gave you bad track position. DRS might not be the right solution, but is it worse than the problem it replaced?

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True, the Trulli-train was frustrating to watch, but when an overtake did occur at least there was the satisfaction of knowing that it was accomplished “un-aided”, with driver skill alone.

I can’t help but feel that the solution to overtaking has not been fully thought through by the sport, with gimmicks like DRS hastily introduced as a “band-aid” solution to keep the fans watching :mark: .

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Originally Posted by jens

But perhaps it is good if the fastest doesn't necessarily win? If the pacesetter hits trouble and drops behind other cars, it would provide some excitement that he is finding it very difficult to work his way back to the front again instead of easing past everyone and regaining his "rightful" position.

Also the problem is that DRS reduces the possibilities of surprise results. Kubica's 2010 Australian and Schumacher's 2011 Canadian GP's were quite similar, but the result was different due to DRS. With DRS Kubica would have never finished on podium as he had several cars behind him and all would have passed. Kubica's defending even forced Hamilton to an alternative strategy, which cost him the race, but also gave more variety and excitement in the process.

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Those are very valid arguments, for sure.

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Originally Posted by schmenke

I can’t help but feel that the solution to overtaking has not been fully thought through by the sport, with gimmicks like DRS hastily introduced as a “band-aid” solution to keep the fans watching :mark: .

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Yes I agree, it has.
I wouldn't under-estimate the difficulty of coming up with a workable "proper" solution though. The problem stemmed from reliance on aerodynamics, so any true solution has to result in a huge reduction in aerodynamic downforce. The FIA's past tactics of fiddling with details like wing dimensions have never worked, the engineers are just too good at making improvements in other areas to offset the losses. It would have to be something radical, like removing wings entirely or introducing spec aero parts. There would be plenty of opposition to those too.

Roll on FP1, only 7 hours until we have some on-track action to talk about :)

I know I'm stating the obvious here, but bear with me. ;) With DRS, if driver A overtakes driver B, driver B can counterattack on the next lap and take his position back, if he can keep up. So in that regard, I think it's fair. Both drivers have an equal opportunity to overtake, if they have equal speed. It's like in the good old days, before wings, when cars used to overtake one another a lot -- if one car was unable to pull away over the course of the rest of the lap.

So in that sense, where is the problem?

And it helps to sort out the faster from the slower, which in the end is the whole point of racing, isn't it?

Think of it this way: In the last decades, overtaking has been peculiarly difficult because of wings, right? If wings were banned, the result would probably be pretty much the same as what we have with DRS. Yet noone would probably call the absense of wings a gimmick that ruins real racing.

Or am I wrong?

Logic has no place in this forum Studiose :p :

What you say makes sense, but I can't help but think that DRS makes it too easy to pass. Even if cars are fairly equally matched in straight line speed, DRS provides a significant advantage to the trailing car. I dunno, maybe if the system can be tweaked so that it can provide a performance edge without allowing the trailing car to pass with such ease I could grow to accept it :mark: .

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Originally Posted by studiose

I know I'm stating the obvious here, but bear with me. ;) With DRS, if driver A overtakes driver B, driver B can counterattack on the next lap and take his position back, if he can keep up. So in that regard, I think it's fair. Both drivers have an equal opportunity to overtake, if they have equal speed. It's like in the good old days, before wings, when cars used to overtake one another a lot -- if one car was unable to pull away over the course of the rest of the lap.

So in that sense, where is the problem?

And it helps to sort out the faster from the slower, which in the end is the whole point of racing, isn't it?

Think of it this way: In the last decades, overtaking has been peculiarly difficult because of wings, right? If wings were banned, the result would probably be pretty much the same as what we have with DRS. Yet noone would probably call the absense of wings a gimmick that ruins real racing.

Or am I wrong?

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First of all I don't have a problem with DRS. I hated the idea but don't mind its use where we are in F1 right now.
Except As Per F1's Request that Pirelli produced tires across the range s-soft s-hard that deteriorate very rapidly.
Having those two in combination was way over the top but made for interesting strategy. You had to maximize your skins :mark: I watched the races last season, I'm not saying it didn't happen, but I do not recall a situation where a car passed another with DRS and then is retaken by the car it passed in the DRS, unless the car went off track. Depending on where you are in your tire life at that point in the race. If it's far enough along you may know you are racing for fourth.
If you are racing for fourth and behind you is a pilot racing for first or second! The best strategy would probably drive at your current pace and not even try to do anything but my normal line because you don't want to lose all your rubber fighting a guy that is good on rubber to the end. Unless your team mate was ahead of you! JMHO.

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Originally Posted by AndyL

The problem stemmed from reliance on aerodynamics, so any true solution has to result in a huge reduction in aerodynamic downforce.

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Exactly :up: The FIA have never addressed this. They've repeatedly tinkered around the edges and as a result, you're right, the teams have been able to recover what was taken away in a short space of time bringing us back to square one.

There's a reason wet races are most often the most unpredictable and the most exciting. It has nothing to do with aerodynamics, DRS, KERS or much else other than the cars have more power than grip.

Until the influence of aerodynamics is reduced the racing (not overtaking) will suffer in my view, but then my view is increasingly outdated as the years go by. The F1 I grew up with is not the F1 younger fans know and there is little sign of the popularity of the sport declining so I guess it is what it is.

I know its been said already, but according to Martin Brundle on twitter its pouring today at Albert Park.

Could mean a real lack of running and a real uncertain race weekend.

Will Hagon was chatting to Tony Delroy on ABC Radio last night and said that he'd been at a function hosted by Renault who this year are supplying engines for four teams.

Someone at Renault told him that although the engines for Vettle and Webber are mechanically identical, the engine maps for them are entirely different. The different engine maps are designed to take into account of things like how the drivers stab the throttle and ride it, how they come off it etc; all tailored for each individual driver out there.
They also mentioned that the engine maps are designed to learn each circuit and write changes to it accordingly.
I wasn't really surprised by this because both the Ka I had and the 206 which I have now, has a very simple program which adjusts the engine maps based on the last 300km of driving.

I imagine that the Renault engine mapping program is probably smart enough to change the map during the course of a single lap; even on a corner by corner basis and remember it.

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Originally Posted by AndyL

Yes I agree, it has.
I wouldn't under-estimate the difficulty of coming up with a workable "proper" solution though. The problem stemmed from reliance on aerodynamics, so any true solution has to result in a huge reduction in aerodynamic downforce. The FIA's past tactics of fiddling with details like wing dimensions have never worked, the engineers are just too good at making improvements in other areas to offset the losses. It would have to be something radical, like removing wings entirely or introducing spec aero parts. There would be plenty of opposition to those too.

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There would, but I, for one, have little objection to either — more so to spec aero parts, however. I feel that it's wrong to expect too much passing in F1, and it's this fact that makes certain races exceptional while others are less so.

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Originally Posted by AndyL

I wouldn't under-estimate the difficulty of coming up with a workable "proper" solution though. The problem stemmed from reliance on aerodynamics, so any true solution has to result in a huge reduction in aerodynamic downforce. The FIA's past tactics of fiddling with details like wing dimensions have never worked, the engineers are just too good at making improvements in other areas to offset the losses. It would have to be something radical, like removing wings entirely or introducing spec aero parts. There would be plenty of opposition to those too.

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(my emphasis)

The rules should make the DRS carte blanche, useable anywhere the driver chooses, but in particular it should open under braking. That'll make the downforce go away ;)

Looking forward to going to the race this weekend.

I will be in the National Champions parade lap at 11.45am on the Sunday and then doing a bit of spectating. Have to be in the circuit at 6am though on the Sunday as we have a breakfast with all the 2011 champions then have to go to a drivers briefing before we venture out onto the track. Look out for our yellow and black EVO 5 in the parade :)

If you want to check out the rain radar check out this site 128 km Melbourne Radar Loop

Cheers

Ray

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Originally Posted by aki13

I know its been said already, but according to Martin Brundle on twitter its pouring today at Albert Park.

Could mean a real lack of running and a real uncertain race weekend.

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You don't have to rely on Martin Brundle - you can rely on Valve. :) I just went up to Laurent ( less than half a mile from the track) with my better half and Benny, and we sat outside for Coffee and Hot Cross buns.
So, go to this website and you can check the weather instantaneously for yourself: 128 km Melbourne Radar Loop
As you can see, these rain bands come and then they are gone.

However, having said all that, it is possible for practice to be affected by rain, which will affect the cars' set-ups particularly as this is the first GP and it is held on public roads. But as I posted yesterday, it rained heavily yesterday and last night, so the track surface should have been washed clean of grime.

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Originally Posted by raybak

Looking forward to going to the race this weekend.

I will be in the National Champions parade lap at 11.45am on the Sunday and then doing a bit of spectating. Have to be in the circuit at 6am though on the Sunday as we have a breakfast with all the 2011 champions then have to go to a drivers briefing before we venture out onto the track. Look out for our yellow and black EVO 5 in the parade :)

If you want to check out the rain radar check out this site 128 km Melbourne Radar Loop

Cheers

Ray

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Sorry Ray, missed your post, because I posted the same link. I don't think people realise that Melbourne's weather is very changeable. I hope you have a great day at Albert Park.

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Originally Posted by AndyL

If I can offer a suggestion to anyone else who feels frustrated by DRS: try to forget about the effect it has on overtaking. Yes really :) Instead focus on the positive effect: the guy who is fastest will probably win the race.

Before, being fastest was no good if you got stuck in the Trulli Train, or your pit strategy gave you bad track position. DRS might not be the right solution, but is it worse than the problem it replaced?

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Its more down to the tyres.

DRS is inconsistent. It's fine for Barcelona and Singapore but other places like Spa and Turkey the slipstream effect is grossly exaggerated.

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Originally Posted by AndyL

I wouldn't under-estimate the difficulty of coming up with a workable "proper" solution though. The problem stemmed from reliance on aerodynamics, so any true solution has to result in a huge reduction in aerodynamic downforce. The FIA's past tactics of fiddling with details like wing dimensions have never worked, the engineers are just too good at making improvements in other areas to offset the losses. It would have to be something radical, like removing wings entirely or introducing spec aero parts. There would be plenty of opposition to those too.

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Which is why I'm in favour of grounds effect.

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Originally Posted by AndyL

The FIA's past tactics of fiddling with details like wing dimensions have never worked, the engineers are just too good at making improvements in other areas to offset the losses. It would have to be something radical, like removing wings entirely or introducing spec aero parts. There would be plenty of opposition to those too.

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I think Grand Prix cars looked better aesthetically before wings started appearing anyway. If you removed the wings entirely, the design solutions would probably look more like a Formula Ford; to be perfectly frank, Formula Ford produces a better quality of racecraft.

F1 2012 is go!

Yay!

I'm currently listening to BBC Radio 5 Live - it's 1:47am here.
It's got Ben Edwards, James Allen and Jaime Alguersuari!
Listening to James Allen, I have to wonder why he's so hated and what's quite SO terrible about him...

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Originally Posted by rjbetty

Yay!

I'm currently listening to BBC Radio 5 Live - it's 1:47am here.
It's got Ben Edwards, James Allen and Jaime Alguersuari!
Listening to James Allen, I have to wonder why he's so hated and what's quite SO terrible about him...

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Probably because he used to come up with some silly comments. I can't remember any offhand, but I can remember his silly comments did not endear him to guys here the way Murray's silly comments did.

And, by the way, I am looking out my window right now and it's not raining. :)

commercials on skysport coverage?

after making folks pay for the special channel they still run 4 minute intervals of commercials?

pathetic

Massa becomes the first person to bin a car in '12 in a rather amateurish grassy moment. Way to convince Ferrari you're worth keeping!

ok any suggestions for alternate live timing feeds, the official F1 desktop one is acting up...as usual

Does anyone have a decent picture of Heikki's helmet out on track?

This is made of win:
http://www.heikkikovalainen.com/_uploads/37.jpg

If this is true, I can't ever look at Heikki on track ever again without humming that theme song.

Alonso will be integral to (if they are ever ready) getting to the fine tuning.
Even if it takes a li'l set up in Fred's hands it will be a weapon, hopefully before next year.

Australian Grand Prix 2012 Live Stream Watch Online free here. The Australian Grand Prix 2012 be a Formula One race due to be held on 18 March 2012 as the opening round of the 2012 Formula One season.

Australian Grand Prix 2012 Live Stream Online

Free Formula 1 Streaming Online

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Free Formula 1 Streaming Online

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Dudes please stop making this message board appear to be pandering to pirates!!
These things are handled discreetly with at least one PM. The "fun police" (I'm not dogging them at all) could capture a domain with a little bait :dozey:

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Originally Posted by hemanthjava

Australian Grand Prix 2012 Live Stream Watch Online free here. The Australian Grand Prix 2012 be a Formula One race due to be held on 18 March 2012 as the opening round of the 2012 Formula One season.

Australian Grand Prix 2012 Live Stream Online

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I can't seem to get past the message in the middle of the screen telling me to click here and collect my prize....

Short showers coming and going - I can't even take Benny down to the park for his afternoon walk. :(

As I am not allowed to take part on the pickems here are mine predictions for the race :

Alonso
Kimi
Massa
Lewis
Button
Di Resta

:p :

ps: Welcome back Valve :wave:

why has mclaren not sent Hamilton out for a few laps like everyone else!
so annoying

The ferraris don't seem to be fearing that bad... good show!
Of course tomorrow it will be different. The RB drivers weren't even using DRS on the straights...

I like your prediction Pino.

If it raining during the quali and the race, anything can happen.