Are you a Ferrari, McLaren or Kimi fan ? :crazy: :p :Quote:
Originally Posted by Mia 01
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Are you a Ferrari, McLaren or Kimi fan ? :crazy: :p :Quote:
Originally Posted by Mia 01
Not sure about Mia, but I consider myself a fan of all three. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by pino
Some more testing times:
1. Michael Schumacher, Mercedes GP, 1 minute, 18.561 seconds, 132 laps
2. Mark Webber, Red Bull Racing-Renault, 1:19.184, +0.623, 97
3. Daniel Ricciardo, Scuderia Toro Rosso-Ferrari, 1:19.587, +1.026, 100
4. Jules Bianchi, Force India-Mercedes, 1:20.221, +1.660, 46
5. Kimi Räikkönen, Lotus-Renault, 1:20.239, +1.678, 117
6. Paul Di Resta, Force India-Mercedes, 1:20.272, +1.711, 69
7. Felipe Massa, Ferrari, 1:20.454, +1.893, 95
8. Jenson Button, McLaren-Mercedes, 1:20.688, +2.127, 85
9. Sergio Pérez, Sauber-Ferrari, 1:20.711, +2.150, 68
10. Pastor Maldonado, Williams-Renault, 1:21.197, +2.636, 97
11. Heikki Kovalainen, Caterham-Renault, 1:21.518, +2.957, 139
12. Pedro de la Rosa, HRT-Cosworth, 1:22.128, +3.567, 64
Schumacher was in last years car, so Webber was the fastest of the new cars. Kimi had a slight off and some damage but still did 117 laps. Check the source for other info and who was driving current cars.
Formula One: Michael Schumacher fastest on day two of Jerez test - Autoweek
... Shoe is fastest... But according to something I read it appears be is driving the 2011 car?
Can someone please confirm this?
(I'm on a phone, with no 3G)
Think that the Ferrari,s and the McLarens are sandbagging a little,but they need to keep an eye on the Bulls,and hope we dont have a runaway faster car,OR the racing could be boring again this year
Mercedes are running their 2011 car with updates I assume, as are HRT as they are struggling to get their new car ready.Quote:
Originally Posted by Koz
Day Three is now under way, giving Lewis, Fernando and Sebastian a first drive in their new challengers.
First install laps going on and its only 0.3 C air temp, and 1.1 C track temp. A bit chilly
Ferrari seem to be in trouble. Oh, crap.
Don't write them off yet. They have a lot of data to gather given the pull-rod front suspension and the fact they have been a lot less conservative with their design this year.
Also, the more data you can acquire on all the different variables for setup, the more accurate you can be throughout the season in bringing updates to the car. SO rather than banging out fast laps, they are no doubt concentrating on controlled speed/downforce tests etc.
You can imagine the McLaren will have more sensors on it than a mother giving birth using only a TENS machine for pain relief!!!
Schumacher's driving the 2011 car, so the lap times are a bit deceiving.
The Ferrari engine seems to be doing ok in the Torro Rosso. :s
Ferrari in trouble according AMuS. I wouldn't mind.
In other news, read what this usFAILURE1 team boss and utter retard Peter "dumb dumb" Windsor is saying about the tests so far.
Notes from Jerez testing « peterwindsor.com
LOL!!!!Quote:
Relative to the Michael of 2010/11, however, this was an altogether different driver. He braked to a point on the left of the road, still with the car at perhaps 15 deg from “straight and parallel”, then nudged the Mercedes into the right-hander, downshifting against increasing steering load.
Mark Webber also looked sharp and very quick, although out of the last corner, and towards Turn One, he began his diagonal perhaps 50 metres earlier than Michael (as is Mark’s regular style). Perhaps 200rpm go missing here. Slightly too-early throttle application against abrupt steering load also gave him quite a lot of mid-corner understeer in the middle of One, but, into Two, a downhill, right-hand hairpin, Mark was faultless.
Kimi looked great in all the slow corners, even if he twice missed his braking point into the chicane just before day’s end. All the old Kimi was on show – the great use of a decreasing brake pedal pressure against steering load, the exquisite feel for the right moment to load-up the car with steering. He was almost in Michael’s wheeltracks on the stretch from the last corner into Turn One – almost but not quite. Kimi’s E20 was straight as it crossed the timing line but he began his diagonal to the outside perhaps 20m earlier than Michael. Maybe 50rpm lost here. Out at Turn Five – the daunting, fourth-gear corner – Kimi was a tad disappointing, frequently leading the car in from a point about a metre later than Michael or Mark and thus effectively running out of road mid-corner. I’m sure he was saying afterwards that the car suffers here from understeer but to my eye his initial manipulations were not helping the problem.
I just love how he describes the driving style of drivers, yet he himself obviously has no understanding of racing whatsoever.
Whom? Sorry, I don't know! :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Garry Walker
Auto Motor und Sport. A german paper, very reliable usually. They usually have loads of stories not told by english speaking press.Quote:
Originally Posted by N4D13
If you speak german, read their webpage, it is worth it.
Thanks a lot! I don't speak any German at all, but I'll try Google Translator. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Garry Walker
Ferrari have confirmed they are not happy with the new car.
Well, this is certainly true that as Ferrari's car is completely new, it takes more time to understand it properly and unlock its potential. On the other hand cars, which are evolutionary, can be working well immediately, but without as much development potential. We have seen it with Ferrari itself in previous seasons - they have always been more impressive in winter testing than in actual season. Now it is the other way around.
But also it shall not be overlooked that they have some catch-up to do. Being fast straight out of the box has proven important throughout the years. It is not impossible to improve and make an impressive comeback. Also Alonso-Ferrari did it in 2010, after they seemed out of the title fight after mid-season. But it is a huge challenge. Basically Ferrari needs smooth and flawless development cycles from now on.
Both BMW in 2008 and McLaren in 2011 had problems in testing, but managed to overcome them. In 2007 Honda was in trouble straightaway and never recovered. Also some serious issues may not be discovered yet with the first week of testing. I remember in 2009 McLaren's problems started becoming evident only in mid-February. Then again it was also a unique year and nobody was sure, where they were standing.
Now Rosberg is testing the 2011 car? Wtf?
Is their new car not ready?
Every publication I have read says 2011-spec so is it an evolution of last year's car or are they having massive issues with the new car that they can't even test it?
With no in-season testing this seems either suicidal or a complete disaster...
Mercedes have, for some time, clearly stated it is their intention to have the new car ready for the 2nd test, giving them asa much development time as possible. Also, they struggled with the tyres, so they are at the first test with the old car purely to evaluate the new for 2012 tyres.Quote:
Originally Posted by Koz
Merc had always intended to do the first test in their 2011 car to better evaluate the new tyres with a car that they already know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Koz
It also gives them more time to develop the 2012 car in the wind tunnel etc.
We'll see if this plan will work, but it's always been their plan.
As for times, don't read anything into them people. This is the first test and teams will be making sure that all the systems are working at expected, and that the data they are getting from their car corroborates with what their simulators told them.
Having said that Ferrari doesn't look to be in too good a shape (based on what we are hearing from the team). Who knows, this is a new car and they might sort it out and find a way to unleash its potential... but there's also always a chance that they might not.
Solid performance by MS :cool:
So the first phase of tests at Jerez is over. Based on comments I have read so far the current Top3 arguably consists of Red Bull, McLaren and Lotus! Ferrari is a question-mark. It is very difficult to rate midfield, because many teams have managed to leave some impression there.
The Lotus situation is interesting. Basically they started out in a similar fashion a year ago. Renault-Kubica were immediately at the front in the first tests and were viewed as a genuine threat to top teams. Later in the beginning of the season they indeed got two podiums with different drivers. So let's see, how well can Lotus keep up development this year and how wide is the performance window of this car across different circuits. From that point of view Barcelona testing can tell us something more as it puts more emphasis on aerodynamic grip than Jerez.
The situation of Ferrari can be considered intriguing as well. But whatever it is, from the winning point of view it should be noted that if you want to beat a team like Red Bull, it is basically needed to perform flawlessly and you can't afford setbacks. So they have made their life difficult.
I agree with you in terms of not to give too much importance to the times. Every team is running their tests and their set ups. Therefore it would be pointless to give any credit to any of the news coming from Jerez. Even the various mechanical gliches are welcome....for now.
However, IMO it's a little premature to think that Ferrari are in trouble......or not I know that's what Fry said the other day about this car but there are stil lplenty of tests to go and plenty of set ups to come to say anything either in favor or against this car at this point.
I think the fact that Barrichello's Williams was fastest of all this time last year says all we need to know about testing times at Jerez this week :D
Exactly. The fact that Fry wasn't, in his own words, satisfied doesn't necessarily mean that the car is bad. It's just that they have a completely new car and they need to understand it. They need to take their time to analyze all the data they've gathered and find out how this car works and how they should adjust their setups. So it's not a surprise that the car isn't quite fast on day one - it's only testing and it's their first chance to actually try it.Quote:
Originally Posted by mstillhere
You can expect an improvement on Ferrari's form on the Barcelona test, as they are just beginning to understand how to exploit the car's potential. Now, whether the car is going to be a winner or not, we won't find until they get to Oz. But it would be a massive surprise for anyone if the car isn't at least a front runner like last year's.
That's right, the lap times are not important right now - what is important is what the drivers are saying about their feeling for the car and as a Kimi fan it is fun to note that Lotus drivers seems to be satisfied with the car .. so far ... :)
Early days, data gathering and wanting to understand their cars; and for the likes of Kimi getting up to speed and exploring the limits.
I'm sure most people are in the same boat as Lewis:
Despite a few niggles here and there RBR are definitely sandbagging.Quote:
"The downforce on the rear for instance, is not as good through the high-speed corners as it was last year, but I'm sure we'll get that back."
BBC - Andrew Benson: F1 pre-season testing provides poor guide to form
Quote:
Although RBR have not gone for an eye catching time this week Vettel did use a set of new soft tyres on the final day, but his best time in a seven lap run on them was a 1m 19.7s, which indicates that he had a fair bit of fuel on board. His next run was on a set of used medium tyres and he did a 1m 19.6s straight off and then a sequence as follows – 1:28.1; 1:21.1; 1:21.5; 1:21.5; 1:21.7; 1:21.5; 1:21.7.
Looking for clues from Jerez testJames Allen on F1
If I was a tifosi I would be seriously worried:Quote:
Originally Posted by mstillhere
Quote:
The car, they said, was behaving inconsistently in the corners, and so far fixing its behaviour at one stage - the entry, say - messes it up at either the mid-corner or exit, or both.
"That time (Alonso's fastest lap) was on soft tyres," a source close to the team said. "It was not so special. The feeling is they are waiting for a lot from this car - but they don't know how to get it. It is impossible to say what will be the future."
BBC - Andrew Benson: F1 pre-season testing provides poor guide to form
As a tifoso I have no interest in seeing Ferrari first during the testing season. I clearly remember what an incredibly positive session we had last year during the tests and then during the champioship we all know how it went.
At the same time last year RB was a little behind in terms of testing (like Mercedes this year) and then they started arriving first when it really mattered.
So, as far as I am concerned I'll wait for Melbourne if not even Barcelona before startiing making claims one way or the other.
I'm waiting until the Saturday morning before Oz to say with any authority the relative speed of the field. Than after the race I can see how terribly wrong I was :s mokin:
Really?Quote:
Originally Posted by mstillhere
RBR were methodical (as per usual).
2011 FebruaryJames Allen on F1
Coming off the first tests and struggling for baselines to work with is very worrying. The next tests are at Barcelona - the greatest test on an F1 car during pre-season.
For sure there have been quick cars that were difficult to understand and set up eg. McLaren 2005 & Sauber 2008 but if you're fighting for WDC then I'd want a quick and reliable car straight out of the box.
History shows you that it is a hindrance as well as difficult when you're on the backfoot and coming from behind.
Again, Ferrari's car represents a breakaway from previous Ferrari cars. The negative is that the team has to learn all its potential the good is that the car has potentially a greater amount of growth and developement compared to the other F1 cars.
Also let's not forget that the amount of testing available to the F1 teams is lower than it was last year (3 Vs. 4) and abviously way lower than it was 7 years ago. Should we also take in consideration that Ferrrari couldn't test their car in Italy because of the snow? Ferrari has little choice but to take advantage of the chance of testing as much as possible right now. And I bet any money that what you are seeing right now on the track is remotely close to what you'll see in Australia.
Anyhow, anyone is free to interpret the various testing results they way they want to. You stated yours and I stated mine. Only time will tell who was right.
Some interesting comments from Alonso in regard to testing the F2012:
Alonso sees early signs of Ferrari tyre warm-up breakthroughJames Allen on F1Quote:
Fernando Alonso says he has already seen positive signs from the new F2012 that it is able to generate heat into its tyres more quickly than was the case with its predecessor – a key aim for the team this year.
Alonso has a reputation of telling it like it honestly is when talking about his cars characteristics.
Further on in the article he does say reliability and aerodynamics are issues that need to be sorted out.
Write Ferrari off at your own peril!Quote:
"I think we’ve managed to get more out of the tyres right from the first lap, which is something we weren’t able to do last year. What definitely needs improving is the aerodynamics and the reliability"
Well, well, well. Look what the cat dragged in.
Welcome back Mr Alcatraz.
Thanks Koz
:s ailor: I guess they will let anyfreakin'body on this forum. ;)
I think it might take Ferrari a race or two to come to life but I do feel they will be championship contenders this year. The new Red Bull is looking sweet. I think they will also be championship contenders. The McLaren I'm not so convinced about yet. In all probability we haven't seen too much from the McLaren boys yet and they seem to be concentrating on high fuel runs. I'm not convinced, based on current testing and comments from Lewis that it is a massive improvement over last years car. Time will tell.
Excellent observations! :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by The Black Knight
http://thumbnails46.imagebam.com/174...d174325034.jpg
I think that among other things, Ferrari are trying to come up with a solution of blowing their Beam Wing with the proper exhaust configuration without burning the rear components off. That is probably one of the aero issues Alonso was referring to. In the following image you can see they are really protecting the lower part of the rear wing supports inside and out with some extra (temporary) heat resistant material.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7040/6...aa5e90d5_z.jpg
BTW does anyone want to take a stab at what that small tube in the first image leading to just under the beam wing that I put an arrow at is for?
I'd guess at the exhaust air exit from the intake just below the airbox inlet. From your final pic, it looks to exit just under the rainlightQuote:
Originally Posted by Mr Alcatraz
Oh I agree but winning is one thing and being a contender is another.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Black Knight
Vettel/Newey/RBR are the guys to beat so to win WDC you have to get the ball rolling with race wins.
Cars are so reliable these days that Id rather be hunted than the hunter - that's why Alonso is a double WDC. When a car loses outright pace Alonso has the calibre to keep the momentum and fight for podiums and even Button scraped by in 2009 with IMO questionable performances when the going got tough.
No, its data correlation ie. simulation data vs. real data.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Alcatraz
It's not a tube, its part of the monocoque. It looks like a tube because of light reflection.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Alcatraz
I think it is a bit optimistic to say that Ferrari will be a title contender at this stage. Better just wait and see. I think you shall not take for granted that this car has a huge development potential. It may have, but on the other hand it may hit a ceiling and not get anywhere either. Like Renault with its radical car in 2011, which they were unable to develop. And besides all, in order to beat Red Bull you need a brilliant racing car, not just a "fine" one. A fine one would be enough for 3rd in WCC like Ferrari has achieved in the past two seasons. And I think it is reasonably to expect such outcome now as well.
Yes that is their major aero issue. I was getting a little carried away with the blown beam wing issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by wedge
I pulled this off of twitter, its translated from Spanish so it's a little disjointed. I don't know if, or how much of an insider he is so I have definately taken it with a rather large pinch of salt:
Quote:
joseluisf1:
"Telemetry test indicated that the F2012 lost downforce in curves inexplicably, lost balance and traction"
"These sudden loss of downforce were random, as this not occurred in the same part of the same curve"
"During a pit stop to solve a problem of reliability, Alonso and Fry spoke in depth about this strange behaviour"
"Apparently, during the conversation to Fry 'is turned on the light', I call Tombazis and began to make some laps"
"They've "armed" the car with 'aerodynamic markers' and were looking back to back flow and suspicions from Fry seemed to be confirmed"
"In Maranello confirmed the cause: several pieces of 'material progress' yielded to the pressure and the flow was diverted improperly"
"That was the reason that the problems were not detected in the tunnel, parts of the model did not have that problem"
"In production are sleepless in order to investigate why those pieces behaved so, failure to manufacture and / or misscalculation?"
Looks like Ferrari got the flexing bits wrong again.