Unemployed young

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Originally Posted by Brown, Jon Brow

Most businesess have shortsighted strategy in general.

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That's why most of them won't survive on the long term.

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Originally Posted by Mark

Unless something has changed since I was last unemployed if you don't turn up for an interview the job centre has sent you on then you lose your benefits.

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Empty threats, the incompetent types who are employed by the Job Centre / Benefits Offices are clueless and toothless.

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Originally Posted by Garry Walker

When you have welfare as good as certain countries have, the young have no motivation for "dirty" jobs and are probably expecting a nice manager position at once. That is why generous welfare payments need to be dumped at once.

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Food/Clothing vouchers instead of money - that'll learn em

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

Perhaps if essential things like;

fuel, mortgages/rent, electricity, gas, public transport etc

weren't all so bloody expensive, wage demands needent be so high.

Unless there is a very real and specific reason why you are genuinely unable to work, then you should not be eligeable for any form of benefit.

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In order

tax, folk seeing houses as investments rather than a place to live, loony green targets, trade unions

causing the rip offs

That would be against their 'ooman rights' you'd have Cherie Blair on your case

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

A very real and specific reason might be 'being unable to find a job'.

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Rubbish, there's always work out there

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

Take Jamie Oliver's example - recruiting for trainees. Only folk that could be bothered to turn up were foreign. And yet we as a nation have the cheek to complain that there are so many foreign workers over here.

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There was a TV show where they showed long term British unemployed vs Eastern European workers, the Brits were bloody hopeless when they could be arsed to turn up. It is far too cushy to take the non working life choice.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

I think the incentive not to work at a menial job is probably quite a strong one for some people. It pains me that well-educated individuals are forced into this for want of anything else.

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Because they have Mickey Mouse degrees from former Polys, serves them right for wasting their time and my money.

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Originally Posted by driveace

So if the councils are cutting back on services because they are having their allowance from central government cut,why dont we cut the amount that the unemployed are paid AND then get a lot of these unemployed working for the council,the government gets the dole money they are now receiving,and pays it to these people as a wage.That way these people are working helping the community,and still getting the same money as they would on the dole,but they then feel they are employed and needed?
OR do the guys who have NO solution decry this ?

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They'd not turn up.

You have a choice do work and get X amount or stay at home playing Wii humping your slapper g/f and smoking dope for the same amount, what would you rather do?

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

Raising the tuition fees does not equate to making entry standards more rigorous in academic terms. This is what I'm talking about.

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But Nu Labour wanted half of the kids to go to Uni no matter how thick they were, just make sure they go.

You can't have elitist further education where only the truly bright kids can get in it has to be all inclusive. Former Polys for brain dead idiots.

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Originally Posted by Drew

Unemployed people straight out of university expect a good wage and companies are unwilling to train new people!

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Because they are largely complete numpties who think they are bright because they got 10 A star GCSEs like everybody else and attended a former Poly doing a worthless degree.

Case in point, they can't even understand the new tuition fees, they are that stupid.

Thanks to Nu Labour.

Education education education - my bottom.

The new tuition fee system is reasonably complex, particularly when you factor in bursaries, scholarships etc.. The new admissions system is also ridiculously complicated and the goalposts seem to change on a regular basis.

The Unis which charge less than £9k will be seen as inferior. It'll be interesting to see what happens to those institutions which cannot fill their quotas and therefore have a significant shortfall in their budget. The new tuition fee system may well be a means by which lesser Universities are shut down by forcing them to the wall.

No it is not.

These idiots can't grasp the basics, they think they have to pay up front and they don't. They only have to start paying it back if they get a better paid job than the previous situation.

I assume therefore that you have a child who is about to enter University in 2012, or you work in an academic institution and are sufficiently well versed in the new tuition fee and student loan structure so as to be able to guide the students who come to Open Days etc.?

Feel free to have a read here if you're not: Applying for student finance : Directgov - Education and learning

I'm sure the 17-18 year olds and parents of prospective undergraduate students on this forum will be delighted with your blanket assumption that they're all idiots.

If you are a parent or youth and you don't apply to go to Uni because you are worried about paying up front then job done as you aren't up to Uni standards.

Tuition Fees - The Facts

Why shouldn't students pay for their education and greater earning potential (as long as they do a decent degree - if they choose a Mickey Mouse course then I have no sympathy for them).

Why should the dinner ladies of today subsidise the dentists of tomorrow?

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Originally Posted by Bolton Midnight

If you are a parent or youth and you don't apply to go to Uni because you are worried about paying up front then job done as you aren't up to Uni standards.

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So you're saying that if you don't have £27k to pay upfront for three years' worth of tuition fees then you don't deserve to go to uni?

Or are you saying that they aren't up to standard because they haven't read the regulations properly?

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Originally Posted by Andrewmcm

Or are you saying that they aren't up to standard because they haven't read the regulations properly?

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Yep, if they are that thick that they think they have to pay up front then they clearly aren't the right stuff for further education. They should be working as a packer in a factory.

They only have to pay if they get a decent job after their course. And why not, education is not free.

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Originally Posted by Bolton Midnight

And why not, education is not free.

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Quite true. Many civilised countries regard a good education as an investment which can pay for itself many times over during a person's life if they are given the opportunity of going on to a productive career. Why we seem to be heading in the exact opposite direction is somewhat of a mystery.

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Originally Posted by Dave B

Quite true. Many civilised countries regard a good education as an investment which can pay for itself many times over during a person's life if they are given the opportunity of going on to a productive career. Why we seem to be heading in the exact opposite direction is somewhat of a mystery.

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Yes if only say the top 5% are going to Uni and doing worthwhile vocational degrees such as pharmacy or dentistry not so if they are doing Peace studies or Sociology.

Having too many students at Uni has meant it is no longer affordable.

When I left uni i took a sales job first and then started doing agency admin type work to get some experience in various places whilst I found a "career" type job. I was never out of work for more than a few days when I was looking for work. One of the admin jobs became a permananet commercial assistant role and I stayed with the company working up to a Snr QS over the next 8 years working in various offices around the country, and did a 2nd degree part time funded by the company.

The company went bust 2 years ago and I was made redundant, I had to fund the final year of my degree myself and was out of work for just a few weeks, I turned down one job and took a consultant position which I am still doing now. I could have walked into plenty of lower paid jobs had I wanted if I was desperate for the cash but was able to find something quickly enough that wasn't a problem. The Job Centre were pretty useless, but there was loads of work available to those with avergae qualifications for average money, yet from what I saw it was easier for most people to come up with excuses why they couldn't do various jobs and stay on the various benefits.

I am not surprised that it is tricky for young people to find work at the moment as there are less jobs about, but the fundamental problem seems to be that the out of work don't want the work that is available and don't have the absolute minimum basic qualifications but the highest expectations andfeel they have a right to something they have done nothing to earn. For sure there are some very concientious and hard working youngsters also struggling to find a proper job as they are lacking experience. For these guys I can only suggest they get out there and take agency work, part time work or whatever gets them in the door and gives them a chance to learn, to impress and to gain some experience. That unfortunately far too much for a decent proportion of unemployed youngsters.

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Originally Posted by Bolton Midnight

Education education education - my bottom.

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You're right a bunch of numpties with no knowledge will produce more added value than a bunch of newbies who know more than you can imagine, but have yet to get a bit of experience with crappy managers. LOL

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Originally Posted by Bolton Midnight

If you are a parent or youth and you don't apply to go to Uni because you are worried about paying up front then job done as you aren't up to Uni standards.

Tuition Fees - The Facts

Why shouldn't students pay for their education and greater earning potential (as long as they do a decent degree - if they choose a Mickey Mouse course then I have no sympathy for them).

Why should the dinner ladies of today subsidise the dentists of tomorrow?

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Whats a uni?

A University .Bolton I was not proposing that they get an option,that work or play they get the same benefit.If they work they get the benefit they get now plus the council pay them a amount as well,so they have more than staying and playing.Where as the ones who refuse this work would take a drop in their benefits.I also believe that if we said to school leavers that IF you are not in employment by say your 18 birthday,then you go into a youth training institute,that would be run on the lines of the army,but these youths would learn how to be builders,plumbers,sparky,s,storekeepers etc,at least they would be learning something whilst getting their benefits,AND maybe they would get off their buts,and try harder to get a job ,knowing that if they did,nt they were going to be away for 12 months at this youth training institute

I've long thought that unemployment benefit should be linked to some sort of work for the council. maybe a very basic amount that is topped up when you do shifts on the bins, roadsweeping, as part of a road works crew, gardening/doing the lawns etc etc. the same money would be paid out, but something productive would occur. Time off allowed for attending job interviews, training etc. If you don't want that sort of job then you're more likely to accept or search for something different. If you really are not wanting to work then you drop off the benefit radar.

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Originally Posted by ioan

You're right a bunch of numpties with no knowledge will produce more added value than a bunch of newbies who know more than you can imagine, but have yet to get a bit of experience with crappy managers. LOL

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Hard to tell the difference really, numpties with 10 A star GCSEs and a sociology degrees much the same as numpties with zero qualifications.

British Telecom - Ology 80s - YouTube

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Originally Posted by MrMetro

Whats a uni?

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You are kidding yes? Or maybe not...........

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Originally Posted by driveace

Bolton I was not proposing that they get an option,that work or play they get the same benefit.If they work they get the benefit they get now plus the council pay them a amount as well,so they have more than staying and playing.Where as the ones who refuse this work would take a drop in their benefits.I also believe that if we said to school leavers that IF you are not in employment by say your 18 birthday,then you go into a youth training institute,that would be run on the lines of the army,but these youths would learn how to be builders,plumbers,sparky,s,storekeepers etc,at least they would be learning something whilst getting their benefits,AND maybe they would get off their buts,and try harder to get a job ,knowing that if they did,nt they were going to be away for 12 months at this youth training institute

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Would never happen, just think of the HSE crap needed to have a load of unemployable layabouts with chainsaws! As they get so much to not work it means they won't get out of bed for less than 15k or more, as if they did they are worse off re rent etc.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

Thank you for insulting those of us with degrees. I obviously proved eminently employable fresh out of university, as do many other people.

Do you yourself have a degree?

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Yes I do, earned while I was working because my mom could not afford to send me to uni, she battled jut to put my brother and I through high school.

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Originally Posted by Drew

If you don't mind me asking, what line of work are you in? Just curious.

When I finished university I looked for a job at home. I can speak 4 languages and where I live most people aren't even able to speak English haha, so I assumed I had a good chance and that I had little competition. As it turns out I couldn't get a job anywhere, because I didn't have experience.

Unemployed people straight out of university expect a good wage and companies are unwilling to train new people!

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We manufacture large generator systems for hospitals, malls, airports etc. We also manufacture a wide range of custom construction equipment and distribute to the lawnmower industry etc in Southern Africa, Tanzania etc etc.

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Originally Posted by Brown, Jon Brow

Surely it depends how relevant the work experience is?

How did the person who went into work straight after high school gain relevant experience without needing to be trained?

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They get experience by working for free to get the experience and then apply for a job with the same company or another one. We call the appys (apprentices) over here. Experience beats a piece of paper any day and I stick to that policy. It has worked very well for me :)

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Originally Posted by ioan

You have a rather shortsighted employment policy. :down:

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Actually, it is a great policy. It has worked very well. My employees are also incentivised and are paid well which is why they generally don't complain or threaten to leave for another company. New employees are also able to be productive within a few days as they have some work experience. I got tired of hiring "qualified" people who took 6 months to get up to speed then wanted to take that experience gained to another company :down:

Sounds a bit like the American intern thing, handy for fit young gals who can suck start a Honda ha ha

But as so many school/college/Uni leavers are so dense I'm not sure I'd trust them working even for free. A good number of school leavers in the UK are illiterate and innumerate - Education education education - my bottom!

I seem to remember looking through the university prospectus when I was on a day release with my work, there was a degree course for 'Toenail Technology'.

I mean, really, you can see where the system has gone wrong....... :confused:

All Liebour's doing

University funding cuts: 5k 'soft degree courses' axed as tuition fees to treble in 2012 | Mail Online

Quango opposes crackdown on "Mickey Mouse" degrees - Telegraph

'Bonfire of Mickey Mouse courses' expected in school league table overhaul - Telegraph

even the commie Guardian

Stop funding Mickey Mouse degrees, says top scientist | Education | guardian.co.uk

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Originally Posted by Bolton Midnight

even the commie Guardian

Stop funding Mickey Mouse degrees, says top scientist | Education | guardian.co.uk

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So a scientist wanted more money spent on science degrees. Well, well, well, now there's a surprise :p

Amazed the Guardian even printed it, they love wasting taxpayer's dosh almost as much as they love paedos.

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Originally Posted by Bolton Midnight

Amazed the Guardian even printed it, they love wasting taxpayer's dosh almost as much as they love paedos.

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What way does The Guardian love paedos?

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Originally Posted by Brown, Jon Brow

What way does The Guardian love paedos?

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Has it ever ran a campaign to introduce something like Sarah's Law?

No

Is it the paper of choice for those who defend paedos?

Yes

Is it the paper of choice for those who are so inept at their jobs paedos go unchecked?

Yes

Are the jobs it advertises the type favoured by paedos

Yes

There you go, case closed it is 'the paedo's paper' and should be burned to the ground and Polly Toynbee taken outside and shot in the head till dead.

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Originally Posted by 555-04Q2

They get experience by working for free to get the experience and then apply for a job with the same company or another one. We call the appys (apprentices) over here. Experience beats a piece of paper any day and I stick to that policy. It has worked very well for me :)

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Do you guys hire people who are still in university as summer employees during holiday season or offer a place to do their bachelors/masters degree project for the company?

I know it works well here, I spent most of my summers working in the shop floor either assembly stuff or working the bender or other sheet metal thingies. And I did my master work for a company project, as probably 90% here do.

Wow there are some sweeping generalisations on this thread.

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Originally Posted by janneppi

Do you guys hire people who are still in university as summer employees during holiday season or offer a place to do their bachelors/masters degree project for the company?

I know it works well here, I spent most of my summers working in the shop floor either assembly stuff or working the bender or other sheet metal thingies. And I did my master work for a company project, as probably 90% here do.

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We don't take temps, nor do we offer temp employment to the likes of varsity students, but we do support varsity students by giving them free engines for project builds and free engine training guides and courses. We allow up to 25 free engines a year to the engineering students. It's amazing to see what they come up with. Most of it is just re-engineered technology, but every now and then we get some real original designs. It's fun to see the result of the original ideas :)

Everyone that works for me is a full time employee and is there to make me money 365 days a year minus weekends and holidays.

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Originally Posted by 555-04Q2

We don't take temps, nor do we offer temp employment to the likes of varsity students,

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IMO that's a bit short sighted. It's your company though, and it's better for me in the long run that you don't fully utilize your country's potential. :D

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Everyone that works for me is a full time employee and is there to make me money 365 days a year minus weekends and holidays.

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Oddly enough, the company I worked for many summers did some it's best month results during summer time when up 60% of staff were those lazy college kids. Apart from welding, in my experience everything else is quite simple in most manufacturing jobs. *i know it's not so easy everywhere.

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Originally Posted by Andrewmcm

Wow there are some sweeping generalisations on this thread.

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and ??

There has to be, impossible to deal with every unemployed young person isn't it. So you have to go with the majority and the majority are lazy, stupid and given too much free money - hence why situation won't be solved.

Vouchers instead of cash would shake the system up, but of course that would be seen as degrading to the poor little souls ahh diddums.

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Originally Posted by Bolton Midnight

...the majority are lazy, stupid and given too much free money...

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Where is the evidence to support this claim?

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Originally Posted by Bolton Midnight

Deal with the facts...

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

Where is the evidence to support this claim?

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troll troll troll

How many people have you interviewed for jobs recently?

How many long term young unemployed people do you deal with daily?

How many posts made by others on this very thread have you read?

You're not bringing anything of any worth to the discussion just trolling.

If the money wasn't enough they'd get a job wouldn't they, doh! QED they are getting too much if sitting around 24/7 is a viable life choice.

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Originally Posted by Bolton Midnight

...You're not bringing anything of any worth to the discussion...

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Bolton, you ask others to "Deal with the facts" and yet time & time again you have shown yourself unable or unwilling to do the same.

As part of a reasonable discussion I am simply asking you to support your claim that "the majority are lazy, stupid and given too much free money" with some facts.

Are you able to do so, or are you making another sweeping generalisation?

Why won't you answer my questions?

I am asking you what knowledge, experience etc you have of the average unemployed young person - so far you are proving beyond all doubt it is nothing / not a lot. Answer the questions.

and you never said what you did for a living either, come on answer the questions Mr Troll.

Can you tell me the difference re posting something to Dublin or Belfast would be from England?

Do you know how many grammes there are in a kilogram?

As the last 19 year old I employed didn't. And she had 6 GCSEs of C and above!!

A friend has a couple of bars so he employs a lot of young people, try a few of these for size

Australia is nearer Turkey and uses sterling

Don't know capital of France

Don't know who proceeded our current Queen

Don't know what shape a 50pence piece is

Can't change a wheel

Think that chips or Jaffa Cakes count as 1 of your 5 a day

And most of these are going to Uni FFS

But sorry I can not provide a link to the Guardian so must be making it all up.

Ahhhh, I get how this works:

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Originally Posted by Bolton Midnight

...As the last 19 year old I employed didn't. And she had 6 GCSEs of C and above!!
A friend has a couple of bars so he employs a lot of young people, try a few of these for size...

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Right, so it would be more accurate of you to have said "most of the unemployed young people I have dealt with have been poorly educated".

Out of interest what role were you employing them for? Was it as part of an apprenticeship? Work experience? Part-time work?

But surely not, as we are constantly being told by the Guardian that teachers are wonderful and exam results prove that!

But most of the things I mentioned I didn't learn at school, came from general discussions with those around me and at a very young age too.

Receptionist / secretary - so knowing how heavy something is and which Ireland is within the UK is kinda handy re posting something. Not exactly rocket science is it?

Still no answers to my questions, strange that in'it? :-)

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Originally Posted by Bolton Midnight

Still no answers to my questions, strange that in'it? :-)

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Strange? No. Pointless? Yes.

Cheerio :wave: