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This sums it up pretty well. I would love to see a faster Mercedes, and how he does, for me, I'd love to see him on a year or two and have him a good car. He can still do things what we were hoping to see. Canada & Monza were great examples/answers of what if we had the same talent we have now, against what he raced with while winning those championships.Quote:
Originally Posted by woody2goody
How about Japan? If button was as hard headed as Hamilton or webber, we would have seen what we saw in Hungry '10. Lets not talk of F1 drivers as saints, they all do what they are wired to do in the heat of the moment.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1
I think he made it clear that he was talking about MS around the turn of the century.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1
As for the rest, we are yet to have MS proved having done something wrong in Macau and Adelaide. He did though admit it for the 97 Jerez clash. Then again I don't see you blaming Senna and Prost for the same things, I wonder why.
ioan, did you read the words of mine you quoted, or do you just see what you want to see?
I am not sure. The driver who I don't support in modern F1 is Lewis, but when he does well, I congratulate him and I would never deny his huge natural talent and obvious love for the sport. I am guilty about Vettel, because I wrote tons of rubbish about him in 2009 and 2010 - that's because I was supporting Brawn and Ferrari and he was a menace. He won my admiration this year however, has been brilliant, awesome, great.Quote:
Originally Posted by henners88
Historically, I do not like Jacques Villeneuve, but in his prime he was fast, dangerous and smart. I simply preferred Damon, though.
Yes. Bias blinds. But it is only natural to have it, to support one guy and not the other and sometimes to sincerely believe that the driver who you do support is better.
My bad, sorry.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1
Can't help thinking there's something unpleasant waiting to be unleashed when Vettel is on the backfoot.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1
There were signs in 2010 when the competition was closer: China he tried to intimidate Hamilton on pit road after a pit stop, of all places; Turkey blamed was erred to Vettel with his crash with Webber.
Time will tell how Vettel reacts when the going gets tough.
Good points Wedge. He has shown a leaning to ruthlessness when pushed such as when he eased Button on to the grass. However, he hasn't shown the sort of actions Schumacher has in the past so perhaps we should treat him on what he has done rather than what he might do.
An idiot throws a stone in the lake and 10 intellectuals can't get it out... there's some saying that goes like that... and it would be a good motto for this thread. It looks like GW farted and left the room.
I like that your still there to smell it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Ben
Still? Are you implying that I've read the first 3 pages of the thread?Quote:
Originally Posted by i_max2k2
I think his "tool" research is keeping him busy. I fully expect him to be back soon enough though. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Ben
Garry?Quote:
Originally Posted by i_max2k2
Schumacher's obvious problem is his qualy pace, but his racepace is very fine and he is generally quicker than Rosberg. But he obviously needs to pick up his pace in qualifying.Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden
No lap dog? Remind me how many wins did DC have to give up for Mika?Quote:
Given that he had extra DNFs and incidents, and the difference in the points table wasn't huge at year end, I'd say it was just a one-off for Mika. DC was thoroughly outclassed the following three years, and that too without a lap-dog contract.
DC also later has commented on how Ron behaved towards him and how he was towards Mika. People bitch how Ferrari was Schumacher's team, well, McLaren was just as much Mika's team.
The Ferrari was the 2nd best car of the year, but it was not as quick as the McLaren. You have yet to answer me, do you think Ferrari was quick as McLaren in 1998?Quote:
Yeah, the 1998 Ferrari was an absolute piece of horse poo. But Magic Schumacher almost won the championship in it. Meanwhile, another all-time great, Eddie Irvine, troubled the explosive DC for 3rd place in the driver's table with the same horse poo 1998 Ferrari. How lucky Ferrari really were to have such amazing two drivers!
So Ferrari concentrated on the end of season, while McLaren had brought their developments already earlier?Quote:
No, but they brought the most significant upgrades right towards the end when it mattered the most, just when Mclaren were catching up. Besides, you forgot to comment on the fact that Bridgestone also started bringing tyre compounds to races in 2000, which suited Ferrari, which pissed off many teams, and hence the majority jumped when Michelin entered the sport.
I remember Newey claiming that the tyre compounds that were brought to Monza were suiting McLaren just fine and he had no problems with Bridgestone.
Of course the reality is that in the last 3 races of 2000, McLaren was the quicker car in all of them and that was the case for pretty much every race of that year.
He was supposed to think and not put his car in a place where there never was any room to begin with. He should have just slowed down a little and tried to get as good exit as possible for the following straight. He went for a move that had 0% chance of working.Quote:
Exhibit A: The most biased a fan can ever be. What was Damon supposed to do behind the limping Benetton? Stay in the tow and ruin his own race? Damon's front left was right alongside Schumacher's sidepod, and he still turned into him. What, his mirrors suddenly stopped working or his brain stopped processing because of the shunt before?
LOL.Who did Maldonado win his title against, how many years did he spend in GP2 before winning it?Quote:
Maldonado the GP2 champion, same as Nico Rosberg, the GP2 champion. The difference is one is making a once lap-dog look rather impressive, and the other is making the "greatest" look rather ordinary. :laugh: The difference in Rubens and Michael's age is only 3 years, but I guess Michael is already too old for Formula 1. LMAO.
Schumacher has 'motion sickness'Quote:
Link from a proper and credible source?
Anthony Davidson also said it on TV last year.
Oh yeah, ROC is the same as F1 LOL.Quote:
Can't be too bad. He did very well compared to Vettel at ROC last year, didn't he, going against regular drivers. Oh, but when it comes to F1, he is too old. :rolleyes: Do you think Mercedes would still be risking it with a senile has-been just for sponsorship money? I'm pretty sure he passed all the prerequisites and only then made the comeback and thought he could do well. Stop with the excuses. This is the first time he's been on equal footing with a teammate since his Ferrari days, and is being shown the way.
LOLQuote:
Kimi Raikkonen. Oh, I don't know, Pastor Maldonado. :p 2010 GP2 champion. Daniel Ricciardo, Paul Di Resta, Kamui Kobayashi. All would make much better use of that seat than MS, and make more sense for the future for Mercedes.
The only one from that bunch who is a serious prospect is Di Resta, the other three are nobodies.
I will not comment on Kimi, except I hope he will be back in F1 and it is a loss for F1 that he left for 2 years.
Please do not bring up those retards, they are a disgrace and they should be removed from gene pool. No sane fan of any driver will ever claim that.Quote:
Yet we have some Schumacher fans (not you) claiming not so long ago that he has a mechanical engineer degree and that he sets up and tweaks the car himself. OMG.
He is a fully qualified mechanic, though, but obviously F1 cars are a bit more complicated than your average Fiesta.
If you remember correctly? Well, bring examples then. Jens already has said that he doesn't remember those super starts you talk about. MS had plenty of bad starts that year and if they had had LC, that wouldn't have happened.Quote:
I'm not gonna go Google every start from those years. I have something called "work" to do, you know? IIRC he had some weirdly good starts and amazing traction out of corners, which Senna noticed when following him, and it made his doubts even clearer when he saw his starts. Of course, I do not recall every single race start from 15 years ago, but that doesn't change the fact that that jump from 3rd to 1st wasn't a bit too much.
Did they?Quote:
Did they have to change the bargeboards? Yes.
What is the point of those links? The 2nd link contains wrong information btw.Quote:
So now you are not claiming Benetton had TC anymore? Good, that is where we wanted to reach.Quote:
Of course none of these prove a 100% that Benetton were cheating, but the facts are there for everyone to see. They found the hidden option 13 to activate launch control. Why didn't Benetton hand over their access codes to the FIA when Ferrari did? Even Ross Brawn admitted in later interviews of the car having the mysterious option 13. Not only this, Benetton were again to the stewards for an illegal fuel hose and later, ride height.
Yes and no.Quote:
Illegally overtaking Damon on the parade lap and then ignoring the black flag, and weirdly worn out plank underneath his car suggesting illegal ground effect producing more downforce, was it?
Did they? In anycase, 5 independent judges ruled in favour of Ferrari. Case closed. A simple misunderstanding, something that has happened in F1 many a time.Quote:
Yes, because all disqualifications and cheating allegations are born out of thin air and have no technical data supporting them, and FIA are just a bunch of muppets. My barber can do a better job. Why did Ferrari change their bargeboards then?
Maybe they didnt know. But even if they did, you do realize it is up to them when to bring such cases up?Quote:
Yeah, Bridgestone and Ferrari knew every technical detail for two years, but didn't bother with it until the Michelin teams became competitive and started beating them. Why wasn't this brought to the FIA's attention sooner? Or were they sleeping?
Of course you will also agree that Michelin were cheating.
LOLQuote:
Only this year. Last year he was thoroughly bludgeoning the "greatest ever" (LMAO) in qualifying and races. Only recently his race pace is suffering, but he's still owning Schumacher in qualifying, 12-2, and is still ahead in the points table. Who would have thought, a GP2 champion, nobody in F1, easily beating Schumacher. This is the greatest hero stories of our time. They should write a book about it. Oh wait, or maybe Schumacher wasn't this great all along?
F1 and MMA are very different sports, even someone like you will know that. Due to that no comparison can be made. For example, how much did MMA technology and rules change in the last 5 years?Quote:
Nobody said anything about darts. Ever heard of UFC, or just MMA in general? Up until a few months ago, Randy Couture, at the age of 48, was mixing it up with guys 20 years his junior. Agreed that he sucked, but he wasn't that great ever anyway, has 10 losses in his career, but he did beat much younger guys. There are other fighters around the same age level that are still doing well in other organizations. At the highest level of MMA, fighters have to train their necks the same was as F1 pilots do, to withstand impact from punches, kicks and knees. The rest of their body is undoubtedly stronger than an F1 driver's. Schumacher's age is just becoming a lousy excuse by his fans who can't seem to digest the fact that 5 of his 7 championships were won in the best car in the field. He was in the right car at the right time, that's it.
Well, tough luck. F1 is not about drinking tea together, but fighting hard.Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden
LOL. Too dumb to comment on.Quote:
As for TC in 1994, having only launch control doesn't mean they didn't have TC. Teams found innovative ways to use LC as TC, even by engaging the pit limiter in corners, so it wouldn't surprise me if Senna was right about the Benetton having TC.
Yes, he has been punished for complete nonsense this year and he is not the only driver to have suffered. In addition to that, they have made overtaking a joke and too easy with DRS, which will hurt those drivers who actually know how to overtake (like LH)Quote:
While we don't agree on much, I will say that the current rules are making wheel-to-wheel racing almost impossible, and that is hurting pure racers like Lewis the most.
Wow, dunnell actually made me laugh. That's a first.Quote:
Originally Posted by BDunnell
Thank you.Quote:
Originally Posted by jens
Again, don't put all fans of certain drivers in one bracket. Those claiming he could win in a minardi were the same people who were later in the running for Darwin's award.Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden
Oh goody, another mental slave of mine has appeared.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Ben
:s nore: Hi Garry :s nore:
Oh boy, here we go again. I know this is such a huge waste of time, but yet I keep biting. Oh well, male ego I suppose. :p
Well, he didn't show much race pace at Abu Dhabi, did he? Finishing almost half a minute behind Rosberg.Quote:
Originally Posted by Garry Walker
How many wins did DC give up? And yeah, the poor tormented soul at Mclaren, I guess that's why DC stuck around in Mclaren until 2004, until they replaced him with Montoya. I suppose once Kimi came to Mclaren, it became Kimi's team. At least Rubens had the balls to leave Ferrari.Quote:
Originally Posted by Garry Walker
That Ferrari was not a bad car by any means. Hell, it even made Irvine look good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Garry Walker
Of course. Schumacher just bum rushed that Ferrari way above where it was supposed to be, and also setup the car in the night using his expert engineering degree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Garry Walker
And I suppose it was perfectly okay for Schumacher to still turn in when the Williams was almost alongside him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Garry Walker
Regardless of the competition, he's a former GP2 champion. And I guess Nico beat all time legends like Heikki and Scott Speed on the way to his title. LMAO! Applying the same logic to F1, who did Schumacher win 4 of his titles against? DC, Rubens, Montoya and his kid brother Ralf? LOL! Makes Vettel look like 10 times the champion Schumacher ever was.Quote:
Originally Posted by Garry Walker
Oh yeah, a forum link and somebody's opinion is such a credible source. LOL!Quote:
Originally Posted by Garry Walker
From what I recall, he had surprisingly good starts as well. The allegations weren't thrown out of thin air. If you wanna be sure, go and research every start from his qualifying grid slot during 1994 and 1995, if you have that much time! :crazy:Quote:
Originally Posted by Garry Walker
Yes they did. Days that Shook the F1 World - Ferrari Bargeboard Scandal // All for F1, and F1 for AllQuote:
Originally Posted by Garry Walker
Yeah, as long as it doesn't agree with what your belief is, it's obviously wrong. It's more credible than a forum link though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Garry Walker
Never said that. Engine electronics can be mapped in a way where LC can be used as TC as well. Many teams in the late 90s were suspected to manipulate pitlane speed limiters to use as TC as well. Read up on it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Garry Walker
Were the FIA sleeping all that time? They didn't check tyre width or how they change during races in three years, after how many, like almost 40+ races?!? But only when Ferrari protested, Michelin were banned? WTF?Quote:
Originally Posted by Garry Walker
If you learn more about MMA, you'll see that MMA athletes are better athletes than F1 drivers and have to work much harder and lead a more disciplined life. The necks withstand almost the same amount of punishment from punches, slams etc. They have to build up abs not for show, but to withstand liver punches, develop back muscles to withstand slams. MMA rules haven't changed much, but regarding MS and F1, a lot of people said these rules will suit him, since he drove cars with slick tyres and no TC for most of his career.Quote:
Originally Posted by Garry Walker
It's also about respecting your opponent and not blocking him/her like a bitch where you might cause an accident and endanger both of their lives. But hey, he has shown in the past he's as ruthless as they come, even almost pushing his kid brother into the wall. People may like that about him, I don't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Garry Walker
Read up on it before spewing the usual garbage. I saw a short documentary on it way back, in 2001 IIRC. That showed that during the late 90s the FIA suspected that a lot of teams were manipulating pitlane speed limiters and using them to give traction out of corners. All of them were doing it, and since the FIA couldn't police it, they allowed TC back on F1 cars in 2001?Quote:
Originally Posted by Garry Walker
FIA brings back traction control systems - Telegraph
His past few performances have led me to believe that he's finally getting to grips with these tyres, and next year he could take the fight to Vettel if Mclaren produce a decent enough car.Quote:
Originally Posted by Garry Walker
I'm not going to reply everything in this messy thread, but some aspects...
DC gave up the wins of Jerez'97, Melbourne'98. Perhaps also Hockenheim'98. I remember Häkkinen had an oil leak late in the race, but DC didn't try to overtake him. I think DC was also ordered to stay behind Räikkönen in Japan'03 all race and finished right behind him. This one didn't cost him a win though.Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden
Yes, DC stuck around in McLaren for long, but so did Barrichello in Ferrari, signing multiple contract extensions in the process. Nobody likes to get beaten by their team-mate, but the reason both drivers stayed on for so long, was mainly because they didn't have good alternative options (a highly competitive team to go to). When Barrichello left Ferrari, they were having a poor season and BAR-Honda was at least promising, so it didn't seem much of a downfall. I'm not going to talk about, which team is/was more of a one-man team than the other, just mentioning that rarely are things black-and-whitish (someone is "good", other is "bad" - in this case about team politics).
I think the point about 1998 isn't that Ferrari was a "bad car", just that it wasn't quite a match to McLaren. I mean a clear second best car can never be called exactly a "bad" one.Quote:
That Ferrari was not a bad car by any means. Hell, it even made Irvine look good.
How can you be so sure about that? I thought F1 drivers are very much hard-working and living a disciplined life.Quote:
If you learn more about MMA, you'll see that MMA athletes are better athletes than F1 drivers and have to work much harder and lead a more disciplined life.
Jerez 97, Hakkinen was the faster car, and DC didn't make it easy for him, but eventually let him go. It was the last race of the season, and they weren't disadvantaging DC, but simply wanting their two cars to finish. Teams have always asked their drivers to hold position to avoid collisions. This was also much less slimy than Hill asking Jordan to tell Ralf not to overtake. Melbourne 98 was an agreement between DC and Hakkinen, because their cars were so dominant, that whoever was first into the first corner, will be the victor. Hockenheim 98 IIRC, Mika was short fueled and so was cruising, and it was much later in the season when Mika was much ahead in points compared to DC, and fighting for the WDC against Michael.Quote:
Originally Posted by jens
None of these can be compared to Austria 2002 or Rubens' whole stint at Ferrari, where he had to pretty much act as a wingman/lapdog and was never allowed to challenge MS. Au contraire, DC and Mika were allowed to fight on-track and had many close moments and coming togethers. Remember Austria 1999 when DC took Mika out? Was Rubens ever allowed to race MS this close? The answer is no.
To answer that question, you'd have to learn and read up a lot about MMA, even watch a documentary about it. I never said F1 drivers weren't hard working. They're some of the best athletes on the planet, but they don't have to work at each aspect of their body as an MMA athlete has to, because of the aspects that affect them during a fight. Yes, F1 drivers have to be ultra fit, but they don't have to turn their body into a weapon.Quote:
Originally Posted by jens
Captain Raiden can you bring about comparisons between F1 drivers and Chess players tomo? or how about some comparisons with swimmers?Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden
As ridiculous as it gets, we cant compare drivers from different motorsports because of the difference in machinery and your comparing something completely different. I understand your pure bs bias, but atleast try to make sense.
What does chess have to do with F1 and MMA? Did you even read anything that I wrote? Do you understand the distinction that what we're comparing is not the sport but athletes, athletic endurance and reflexes? Go back and read what I wrote. Damon Hill won his 1996 championship at age 36, and was quite competitive until his retirement. Prost won his WDC at age 39. Barrichello gave Button a run for his money mid-season in 2009. Nigel Mansell won his F1 championship at age 39 and Indycar WDC at age 40. Schumacher is only two years older, and suddenly he's too old?Quote:
Originally Posted by i_max2k2
People who have been athletes all their life don't start to see a major drop in performance, endurance and stamina until in their late 40s, for ex. 48, 49. This I know for a fact. There have been many athletes who have done good even up to the ages of 46 in sports which require strong athletic performance. The only factor different in F1 is g-forces, but those didn't seem to affect an athlete as unfit as Mansell at 40, did it?
I know Schumi fanboys have a very convenient excuse whenever he's not doing good. Oh he's too old for F1. But when he does good, like how they like to bring up Canada this year, it's the Schumi of old, and now it's a superhuman effort that he's starting to match Barbie. But then he finished half a minute behind Barbie at Abu Dhabi. Truth is Nico Rosberg is just a better driver, period. The ship has sailed for MS and he's just wasting a good seat.
You're conveniently ignoring that Schumacher went for 3 years of retirement. During these years his training laxed, he put on weight, somewhere in the order of 9Kg if memory serves me, and he did not race much except for the odd bit of karting here and there. Whether you want to believe it or not, 42 years old is well past a persons prime. Reaction time slows down, eyesight may not be as good e.g. Schumi had perfect vision most of his career but had to get his eyesight tested as it's not as good as before. There are a lot of small differences which, while travelling at 200mph, will have a big impact. Just because a fat Mansell was able to drive at 40 years of age doesn't mean he was as good as he was at 30, nor does it mean the same should apply to Schumi. All these comparisons between MMA and different drivers of another era are total rubbish.Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden
Schumacher hasn't been the same driver since his retirement, that much is obvious. This year there have been one or two performances where he took it to the next level, he just hasn't been able to maintain it. Qualifying is his main deficit to Rosberg. I'll be the first to admit I am disappointed with his performances since his comeback on the whole, he hasn't done well. Yes, Nico is the better driver now overall. I don't know how much of the gap in Abu Dhabi can be attributed to by Schumacher's car issues but either way he got his ass handed to him just like Nico got his ass handed to him in Canada and in Spa.
The ship may have sailed and he may not be as good as he used to be, but he is still amongst the top ten drivers in the world. That isn't bad at all for a guy of 42 that took 3 years retirement.
Nope, that is a bit wrong. He drove the F2007, and then tested Ferrari's 2008 car extensively, putting in IIRC hundreds of laps. He also was riding a Ducati in the German superbike championship, where he injured his neck. And I might be completely wrong here, but he also drove a DTM car. 9 kilos is like chump change to lose for especially great athletes like Schumacher. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by The Black Knight
While I agree that an athlete's prime period is in his 30s, they're not completely useless in their early 40s either.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Black Knight
I'm repeating myself again, the comparison is about athletic performance. But you can go ahead and call it rubbish as long as it doesn't agree with your opinion. The fact of the matter is that Mercedes would have done a complete health and fitness check before allowing MS to race again. They don't want an old has-been finishing 24th now, do they? So, MS was obviously good enough when he came back.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Black Knight
How do we know that? How is that obvious? Are you assuming the Mercedes is the same car as the Ferrari in 2006? There is no way to compare this. Cold hard truth is that Nico is beating him, albeit not as convincingly as in 2010.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Black Knight
The "ass handing" has been mutual, :p and spread out over two years, Nico has handed the aforementioned posterior more times to MS. But again, there is this contradiction of when he's doing well, he's bringing it to the "next level" or doing a superhuman effort, and when he's doing bad, it's his age. Why can't we agree that Nico in equal machinery and no team orders is proving to be a handful for Michael, and he's struggling to match him, but he has started to match him lately with some sporadic good performances, which is him being comfortable with the car at certain tracks and not some "next level" or superhuman effort. Time away from F1 is a better excuse than age IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Black Knight
For the sake of ending this argument, I'll half-heartedly agree with that. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by The Black Knight
Wrong old Captain! The average males prime years are 18 - 35. After that you start losing physical strength, stamina, reactions, eyesight, hearing etc. Besides the likes of golfers and bowls players, why do you think most professional sportmen retire at around 35? This has been scientifically proven by numerous sports doctors and specialsts.Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden
The testing your mentioning here is sporadic at best. If I remember he did a weeks testing in the F2008 but that was it. He only did one days testing of the F2007 where he finished top of the session with a time 6 tenth of a second quicker than anyone else. That was his first time driving in a year. DC was at that test with RBR and he was more than slightly impressed.Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden
Of course yes, there would have been a complete health and fitness check and he passed it but he would have always passed these with ease.Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden
I agree with that. But drivers improve and disimprove over time. As I say, my opinion is that the real crux of the argument is that he took 3 years off. I don't believe his fitness to be as big of an issue as some make it out to be but it certainly would play a small part in terms of reaction time.Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden
Well, clearly when he is doing well and thrashing his teammate Rosberg then he has taken it to another level, if he hadn't then he wouldn't be beating him, but the issue appears that he can't do that consistently. I don't see what your issue is with people pointing this out? We could argue about this ad nauseum, but there is no way of knowing if Schumacher really would be beating Nico were they teammates in his prime. We can only guess that he would be considering he thrashed all his other teammates. I would also say that "him being comfortable with the car" is all part of him bringing it to the next level. There is nothing superhuman about this, it's just that sometimes it is working out and others it isn't. There is a clear trend of improvement throughout this year. Whether he can ever beat Nico remains to be seen however.Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden
Overall though, I am very impressed with the Schu Meister and his will to improve. It has been disappointing that he hasn't beaten Nico regularly, or hardly at all, but in general, I think this year is a big improvement on last and if he can keep that trend going, he may very well be level with him next year. To be honest, I think there are very few former F1 drivers that could be doing what he is doing at the age of 42.
Well, that's debatable. Usain Bolt is breaking world records at his age of 25, but I remember Michael Johnson saying in some interview that he's yet to reach his athletic prime, and that's the scary part. From as long as I've been following MMA, coaches, doctors, nutritionists and fighters themselves have said they reach their athletic peak somewhere after 26 and it starts to decline after 36. The best MMA fighter in the world right now is 36, and Mansell won his last world title at 40, so as long as the skill is there, it works, even though they might lack in the stamina department.Quote:
Originally Posted by 555-04Q2
If people say that MS is way past his prime at 42, and his time away from F1 is a huge factor, then every time he's outqualifying or outracing Nico, he's doing something superhuman, way beyond his capability or what his body can do, and something which goes beyond science and everything that makes sense. Do you guys actually believe that?
OR that Nico Rosberg is so useless that he can't even beat an out of prime, out of practice, fat, almost blind has-been, in which case Mercedes are getting seriously shortchanged in terms of the quality of drivers they can get, isn't it? That car could be a world beater! :pQuote:
Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden
As I said, the average male's prime is between 18 and 35. Each person is different so we all peak at different points during these years mentally, physically and sexually. Sexually, it's all down hill for us boys from about 21 onwards. Physically, we start the downward travel around 35 some earlier. Mentally, we are not able to absorb information and make decisions as quickly as we did when we are 35 compared to when we are 25 for example.Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden
There is the occassional freak that breaks this mould, but 99% of us fit this profile. As for The Shoe outqualifying or beating Nico sometimes, even old dogs have the odd good day, and young bucks also have some bad days :)
Yeah, I also thought Nico was overrated :laugh: ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden
Finally you got pretty close to the reality with this claim. :) Or I may add, depending on the sport, the prime can be either in 20s or (early) 30s. Indeed, depending on the sport, one may not be useless in early 40s either. Schumacher is indeed not useless, as we can see, being able to more or less match Rosberg now. But as you agreed, he is not in an athlete's prime. He is still good, but not that good.Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden
Think about this: Schumacher may not be the best in the world right now, but I'm pretty sure he is clearly the best 40+ F1 driver and would beat other 40+ ex-drivers with relative ease. Other drivers have lost their performance even more than MS by this age. You may talk about Mansell, but after his comeback at the age of 41-42 he wasn't doing anything special any more, getting beaten by Hill and Häkkinen. Or you'd think this was his real level too and he was at his best?
Your attention span seems to be slowly improving.Quote:
Originally Posted by Knock-on
But then Mansell won back-to-back WDCs at age 39 and 40, beating much younger guys, and then suddenly he was too old at 42? We all know the 1992 Williams was a class above, but were the other drivers chumps, same as in Indycar, were they all useless to be beaten by a 40 year old, clearly out of his prime, man? Until last year Barrichello was soundly beating a much younger Hulkenberg in the same car, and this year his performance has gone down a bit, but he's still outqualifying and outracing Maldonado sporadically. What, in one year his reflexes became worse and he got out of his prime? Or the reality is that Pastor is just a better driver than Nico?Quote:
Originally Posted by jens
I still didn't get an answer to my previous two questions.
Quote:
If people say that MS is way past his prime at 42, and his time away from F1 is a huge factor, then every time he's outqualifying or outracing Nico, he's doing something superhuman, way beyond his capability or what his body can do, and something which goes beyond science and everything that makes sense. Do you guys actually believe that?
Quote:
OR that Nico Rosberg is so useless that he can't even beat an out of prime, out of practice, fat, almost blind has-been, in which case Mercedes are getting seriously shortchanged in terms of the quality of drivers they can get, isn't it? That car could be a world beater!
I think the bigger issue is that older drivers simply find it more difficult to adapt efficiently. And that's why a drop in performance at a relatively high age can appear like that - within a season, especially if rules change. Barrichello was good in 2010, but suddenly found new Pirelli tyres and DRS in qualifying harder to master than many young drivers. Even Schumacher, who was known for being excellent in adaption, has found it difficult to master several issues quickly with ease.
Also Schumacher's Canadian GP drive doesn't mean he was superhumanous, simply sportsmen at his age are more inconsistent. And find it more difficult to be competitive on a consistent basis. Mansell also qualified on pole for Australia '94, but didn't manage that feat more often.
To bring an example from another sport like you did, Mr CaptainRaiden. For example I have been following cross-country skiing a lot. And older athletes (close to 40) find it impossible to be at or close to their peak form throughout the season, so they concentrate on just a couple of events, where they aim to really shine. They can win that one specific (like a World Championship) event, but are unable to be at the front more often.
May I suggest another reason , unrelated to age , regarding the red shoe , is that he is not able to gain the edge on the rest , including team-mate , by pounding around the test track endlessly at red tracks .
Personally , I don't think he's lost much speed , but is only just starting to feel one with the car , now that he's been back for the second season .
The Merc design team now have some consistant feedback with which to build , and I expect good things .
It's not the same as when he ran for the reds .
New car .
New tires .
Almost no testing .
None of that has anything to do with age .
Or, or, or, or.......
Or maybe he's just past it?
I think motivation, dedication and drive have a lot more to do with it than some people here give credit for.
In Nigel Mansell's case, ask yourself why he missed the first two races in 1995.Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainRaiden
Hint: It wasn't because he was too old...
This I agree with.Quote:
Originally Posted by jens
So much crap sometimes, I dont honestly know whats going on with Schumacher, that why he is good sometimes and less then average some times. None of us have ever seen a F1 driver retire at 38, do less then 5% of what he did for 3 yrs and come back to the sport with radical rule changes before this. People who used to drive in their 40's in F1 is a story gone by a long time ago. Fangio won championships in his 50's, doesnt mean if he was given a modern car he would come even close to anyone whos racing today, perhaps he would be at the same level as some of the drivers back then, different era's had different level of fitness in drivers. It has slowly changed with Schumacher becoming a benchmark in the 90's, drivers these days spend a lot of their time in fitness. And its no mystery as has been said we peak from 25 to 35. And also if you keep doing something you stay good at it for longer. Schumacher was probably past his best earlier this decade itself, but somehow or another he had an edge, probably a feeling of having the exact car he wanted.
Anyway comparing athlete from different sports is bs, comparing people who could do great at certain age and saying the same for or against schumi is useless. Barrichello 2 yrs younger, was handily given his arse on a place several times by schumi, he NEVER left the sport, that is the biggest difference between him and Schumi, so pls dont bring him in an argument again. I still feel 90% of schumacher is still one of the best in the field, if he gets a fast car under him we'll see. And I think Rosberg is a WDC material, but Schumi in his prime would have done the same to him what he did to others although he is probably his strongest team mate ever.
I really don't buy this crap about his age and time away from F1. It's been "TWO YEARS" since he returned to Formula 1. In those two years, he has had almost 40 races + 40 qualifying sessions + 120 practice sessions + 2 winter testing sessions with hundreds of laps. How much more time does he need?!? What the hell? In contrast a fat, unmotivated, 42 year old Mansell troubled Schumacher and Hill in 1994 (albeit really rarely, but still did).
And if his age and "time away from F1" :rolleyes: are really holding him back, then what I don't understand is why a professional team like Mercedes is still persevering with him?
A: Is it just because he's German?
B: Or is it that he's bringing billions of dollars of sponsorship money to the team that no other driver can?
C: Or is it that they're such bug-eyed fanboys of schumi, with their mouths full of his nuts, that they'll tirelessly prepare a car for him each weekend, dump silly money into the development of the car, only to get sub-par performance every weekend because of him being old and his "time away from F1"? :rolleyes:
D: Or the fact that Rosberg is just a better driver and Schumacher is way past it?
E: All of the above.
I find the excuses very convenient, because whenever he's doing bad, it's his time away from F1 and his age. And when he does good, it's the Schumi of old. :crazy: