80 MPH proposed maximum speed limit in 2 years time

How fast would I go if there were no limits? Depends on conditions. Empty m/way, clear day etc, I'd happily max out (so that's probably 115ish for me).

As for US rules, from my time over the pond there are regular signs saying 'keep right' if the passing on both sides rule is not enforced.

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Originally Posted by Mark

That was repealed something like 15 years ago!

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It was fun growing up, though. Since we didn't have a radar detector it really helped hone my observational skills in the car. Scanning the sky, searching the shadows, bridge overpasses and reverse slopes as well as reading the surrounding traffic (particularly trucks which would dominate early radar signatures) all came in handy when I started driving myself (though I did buy a detector as well). Illinois has a maximum speed of 65 for cars and 55 for trucks, but that's mostly to allow random taxation by the police since surrounding states are all 70 or higher for all vehicles and most everyone goes faster than that.

having used the A8 in Germany lots,I think you are about right,most of the traffic does travel at about 130K,until on the 2 lane sections they catch an Artic or a wagon and drag ,SLOWLY passing another truck .This can take ages,BUT now the Germans have tried to sort this problem by banning trucks overtaking other trucks between the hours of say 6am and 6pm,and then removing the ban when it goes to 3 lanes each way.
This works as all the trucks stay in the right lane,and some sections are 22 miles long,but then once the restriction is lifted its manic !!!!

Raising the speed limit to 80 is not going to make much difference to how the majority drive in the UK, all it will do is increase the level at which the police will be able to prosecute and we will then see a reduction in the revenue generated from the fines imposed. Not a particularly good move from a government that is fast approaching bankruptcy.

It will also see the numpties who already drive in excess of the speed limit to think they can take it up another notch and still undertake other vehicles and sit 6ft away from someone else's bumper whilst doing 90.

Personally I'm against the raising of speed limits until every driver in the country receives some form of compulsory retraining. If you had to take a driving ability test every four years or so then the general traffic flow on motorways and dual carriageways would be dramatically improved. I'm not talking about making people learn manoeuvres, more an assessment of a persons general driving. I recently helped a friend of mine do a fleet assessment for a local company. Between us we assessed 9 drivers and the varying standards of ability and attitude was quite surprising.

The argument by the 'don't increase the limit' brigade that people will then travel at 90 or 100 is a little short sighted.

I travel on holidays by car from Kent to the Scottish Borders on average twice a year. I take the A1/A1(M) up to the A68. On the A1 i generally stick to 60/65 mph.

I encounter;

middle lane wallahs
oiks that speed up when you attempt to overtake, and slow back down once you pull back in
lorries that take several counties to complete overtakes - usually on the 2 lane section
drivers who fail to indicate
drivers merging from slip roads straight out into the second overtaking lane

The reason for accidents on motorways is not generally due to speed, but the poor driving. The severity of the accident will be determined by the speed.

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

The argument by the 'don't increase the limit' brigade that people will then travel at 90 or 100 is a little short sighted.

I travel on holidays by car from Kent to the Scottish Borders on average twice a year. I take the A1/A1(M) up to the A68. On the A1 i generally stick to 60/65 mph.

I encounter;

middle lane wallahs
oiks that speed up when you attempt to overtake, and slow back down once you pull back in
lorries that take several counties to complete overtakes - usually on the 2 lane section
drivers who fail to indicate
drivers merging from slip roads straight out into the second overtaking lane

The reason for accidents on motorways is not generally due to speed, but the poor driving. The severity of the accident will be determined by the speed.

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When I drive I stick to very similar speeds to you and I've noticed the same things.

The problem I reckon is that there are two types of driver. People who have some kind of interest in driving and cars and are capable of improving with training, and those that aren't interested at all beyond merely making it from A to B and who wander around the roads in some kind of haze.

Its the second group that causes a lot of the problems and I don't think attempts to raise driving standards will reach this group. Thats why speed limits need to be capped at a sensible level, not because of the majority of decent drivers but the minority of utter idiots who cause the problems.

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Originally Posted by driveace

having used the A8 in Germany lots,I think you are about right,most of the traffic does travel at about 130K,until on the 2 lane sections they catch an Artic or a wagon and drag ,SLOWLY passing another truck .This can take ages,BUT now the Germans have tried to sort this problem by banning trucks overtaking other trucks between the hours of say 6am and 6pm,and then removing the ban when it goes to 3 lanes each way.
This works as all the trucks stay in the right lane,and some sections are 22 miles long,but then once the restriction is lifted its manic !!!!

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Seems we could learn a lot from Germany, decent traffic laws AND decent smoking laws, good on them - just as long as they pay the PIGS though.

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Originally Posted by CarlMetro

Raising the speed limit to 80 is not going to make much difference to how the majority drive in the UK, all it will do is increase the level at which the police will be able to prosecute and we will then see a reduction in the revenue generated from the fines imposed. Not a particularly good move from a government that is fast approaching bankruptcy.

It will also see the numpties who already drive in excess of the speed limit to think they can take it up another notch and still undertake other vehicles and sit 6ft away from someone else's bumper whilst doing 90.

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The whole concept of fines and points is road safety not revenue creation.

Nothing wrong with undertaking, its the clueless types in the wrong lane that need educating/banning.

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Originally Posted by Malbec

The problem I reckon is that there are two types of driver. People who have some kind of interest in driving and cars and are capable of improving with training, and those that aren't interested at all beyond merely making it from A to B and who wander around the roads in some kind of haze.

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Are there not also those, however, who have no interest in driving and cars and who merely want to make it from A to B without being in some kind of haze?

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

Are there not also those, however, who have no interest in driving and cars and who merely want to make it from A to B without being in some kind of haze?

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Do you include yourself in that group as you clearly know nowt about cars or motor sport, odd then you choose to troll this particular forum.

The Daily Mash - Britain has a motorway speed limit, claims minister

Looks like they did another article at the time:
The Daily Mash - Clarkson Explodes

Neat site; much like The Onion here in the US.
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/index....tent&task=view

hehe yes, funny site :D
The Daily Mash - Woman to explain why she had sex with Clarkson

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Originally Posted by Bolton Midnight

Won't really make much difference to me as I tend to do 90+ usually on motorways (when I can which isn't often), but if folk still insist on doing 50 when they join or leave it may cause more accidents, be nice if there was a minimum speed and that was enforced more.

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Trucks with heavy loads can't accelerate to over 50 mph before joining, even if they tried. Or you'd have to rebuild the joining lanes to be longer.

well trucks here are restricted to 100KPH,which is about 56/58MPH,some trucks drivers "Seem to pull the fuse" as i have followed Spanish fruit trucks comimg up through France at 75 MPH,and they can do that speed uphill as well fully freighted.(you can tell they are loaded by the tyres bowed.)
Here MOST drivers do forward plan,and if they see a truck coming down the Slip road ,will move over a lane .so the truck can enter the motor way.
As Metro says I do a lot of "Driver Assessments" with company drivers,and some of the attitudes,and tailgating is frightening,BUT hey at least these companies are paying for a driver report,and are trying to sort out the "Bad eggs"
Sometimes i think the guy with the clean car ,is a faster driver,but many a time a safer driver,if the cars filthy,i beware !!

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Originally Posted by driveace

Here MOST drivers do forward plan,and if they see a truck coming down the Slip road ,will move over a lane .so the truck can enter the motor way.

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Yep, but how drivers there often stay in the middle lane to forward plan for the next slip road even when the slip road is empty when they come to it? :p

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Originally Posted by driveace

well trucks here are restricted to 100KPH,which is about 56/58MPH,some trucks drivers "Seem to pull the fuse" as i have followed Spanish fruit trucks comimg up through France at 75 MPH,and they can do that speed uphill as well fully freighted.(you can tell they are loaded by the tyres bowed.)
Here MOST drivers do forward plan,and if they see a truck coming down the Slip road ,will move over a lane .so the truck can enter the motor way.

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You can do that for other slow drivers too.

You also have to consider weather. Today, the roads were icy and had lose snow on them. I couldn't accelerate to 100kph speed before joining the motorway even if I wanted to. If I pushed the pedal too hard, the tyres lost grip so I had to lift the pedal and I only had about 80 kph when joining the motorway.

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Originally Posted by driveace

well trucks here are restricted to 100KPH,which is about 56/58MPH,some trucks drivers "Seem to pull the fuse" as i have followed Spanish fruit trucks comimg up through France at 75 MPH,and they can do that speed uphill as well fully freighted.(you can tell they are loaded by the tyres bowed.)

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They're on tight schedules and made doubly worse when working with big name retaillers.

Our company gets a bonus for hitting accuracy targets but get fined for late droppages.

One of the biggest problems,on motorways,and not just for trucks,car drivers are equally at fault,and that's Cruise Control,some driver click cruise on and turn off the brain !Another problem with SOME truck drivers,is that you are in the middle lane,ready to overtake them,and you can see them closing very quickly on another truck or slower vehicle,do they signal early and drift out gradually? Do they bollocks,they bang a signal on and try to force their way out,even if you are the jam in the sandwich,as you have another vehicle on your right overtaking you !

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Originally Posted by driveace

SOME truck drivers,is that you are in the middle lane,ready to overtake them,and you can see them closing very quickly on another truck or slower vehicle,do they signal early and drift out gradually? Do they bollocks,they bang a signal on and try to force their way out,even if you are the jam in the sandwich,as you have another vehicle on your right overtaking you !

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Car drivers are also guilty of this but for sure its damn risky and dangerous there's a good reason for this:

A truck has 18 gears!

Truck Driving challenge part 1: Rig Stig & the power slide - Top Gear - BBC - YouTube

[youtube]imhBoE56OEs[/youtube]

Also the other problem in austere times there is an upturn in drivers slipstreaming trucks trying to improve fuel economy. Cars are getting too close and the truckies can't see a damn thing!

Most people don't appreciate trucks. Prostitutes apart, the UK economy would collapse!

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Originally Posted by driveace

well trucks here are restricted to 100KPH,which is about 56/58MPH,some trucks drivers "Seem to pull the fuse" as i have followed Spanish fruit trucks comimg up through France at 75 MPH,and they can do that speed uphill as well fully freighted.(you can tell they are loaded by the tyres bowed.)
Here MOST drivers do forward plan,and if they see a truck coming down the Slip road ,will move over a lane .so the truck can enter the motor way.
As Metro says I do a lot of "Driver Assessments" with company drivers,and some of the attitudes,and tailgating is frightening,BUT hey at least these companies are paying for a driver report,and are trying to sort out the "Bad eggs"
Sometimes i think the guy with the clean car ,is a faster driver,but many a time a safer driver,if the cars filthy,i beware !!

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100 km/h is actually 62 mph. The National speed limit in the UK for HGV's on motorways is 60 mph.

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Originally Posted by donKey jote

Yep, but how drivers there often stay in the middle lane to forward plan for the next slip road even when the slip road is empty when they come to it? :p

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If motorway driving was a compulsory 'next step' to complete passing the driving test, then we would not have these clueless morons who use the middle lane like a comfort blanket.

Trucks should not be allowed out of the inside lane - full stop. Infact, freight should be put back onto the rail network at every opportunity. Having a brain should be a minimum requirement to become a lorry driver......

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

Infact, freight should be put back onto the rail network at every opportunity. Having a brain should be a minimum requirement to become a lorry driver......

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It's not necessarily the easiest option as most companies are operating on a just-in-time model.

The problems with rail are many fold. Firstly a lack of rolling stock, secondly the railways are already exceptionally busy you can't just whack on additional trains like you can put lorrys on the road.

And most importantly, rail doesn't go to many places. It's much cheaper for Tesco to have one lorry which goes from depot to store, rather than lorry to rail to lorry.

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Originally Posted by Mark

The problems with rail are many fold. Firstly a lack of rolling stock, secondly the railways are already exceptionally busy you can't just whack on additional trains like you can put lorrys on the road.

And most importantly, rail doesn't go to many places. It's much cheaper for Tesco to have one lorry which goes from depot to store, rather than lorry to rail to lorry.

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Thanks to that Beeching chap, yes.

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Originally Posted by wedge

It's not necessarily the easiest option as most companies are operating on a just-in-time model.

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We should buy our meat from the local butcher/farmers market. Fruit and veg from the locally supplied greengrocer. We should only freeze fresh produce, not buy ready frozen food.

If we all did this, the supermarkets would be unable to dictate their pitiful prices to producers. It would cut loads of wasteful freight journeys, demand for fuel would drop and so would the price. Then, public transport (which with any luck will be fully automated so the unions don't grab us all by the short and curlys) will once again become affordable.

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

Thanks to that Beeching chap, yes.

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Nah, Beeching can have some of the blame but most of it can be placed at the door of Sir John Major.

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

If motorway driving was a compulsory 'next step' to complete passing the driving test, then we would not have these clueless morons who use the middle lane like a comfort blanket.

Trucks should not be allowed out of the inside lane - full stop. Infact, freight should be put back onto the rail network at every opportunity. Having a brain should be a minimum requirement to become a lorry driver......

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:up:

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

We should buy our meat from the local butcher/farmers market. Fruit and veg from the locally supplied greengrocer. We should only freeze fresh produce, not buy ready frozen food.

If we all did this, the supermarkets would be unable to dictate their pitiful prices to producers. It would cut loads of wasteful freight journeys, demand for fuel would drop and so would the price. Then, public transport (which with any luck will be fully automated so the unions don't grab us all by the short and curlys) will once again become affordable.

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:up:

PS: Is this becoming a trend or what?!

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Originally Posted by driveace

One of the biggest problems,on motorways,and not just for trucks,car drivers are equally at fault,and that's Cruise Control,some driver click cruise on and turn off the brain !Another problem with SOME truck drivers,is that you are in the middle lane,ready to overtake them,and you can see them closing very quickly on another truck or slower vehicle,do they signal early and drift out gradually? Do they bollocks,they bang a signal on and try to force their way out,even if you are the jam in the sandwich,as you have another vehicle on your right overtaking you !

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I had one of these idiots 2 weeks ago when I left for holidays.
Male driver around 55 y/o driving some SUV at around 120 kph in 130kph zone while I was doing the usual 135 to 140 kph that the radars and police accept, so I pulled on the fast lane and went ahead.
When we were about level he decided that he would want to overtake a car that was still 200 meters ahead of him and doing a similar speed and almost ran me off the road, luckily I went for the Espace 2 months ago otherwise I might have been history by now. He went as far as using his horn to show his displeasure for me not suddenly vanishing from his path.

To be honest, the best way to improve traffic is to have an IQ test before giving someone a driving license, no license for those with a coefficient under 100. Problem solved.

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

We should buy our meat from the local butcher/farmers market. Fruit and veg from the locally supplied greengrocer. We should only freeze fresh produce, not buy ready frozen food.

If we all did this, the supermarkets would be unable to dictate their pitiful prices to producers. It would cut loads of wasteful freight journeys, demand for fuel would drop and so would the price. Then, public transport (which with any luck will be fully automated so the unions don't grab us all by the short and curlys) will once again become affordable.

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What are butchers & greengrocers? Never heard of 'em!

Most towns are blighted by superstores that now offer convenience, choice, well priced goods.

It's far more complex than just educating consumers, celebrity chefs and what Mary Portas screams. The likes of Tesco can buy land, property and offer number of jobs.

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Originally Posted by wedge

What are butchers & greengrocers? Never heard of 'em!

Most towns are blighted by superstores that now offer convenience, choice, well priced goods.

It's far more complex than just educating consumers, celebrity chefs and what Mary Portas screams. The likes of Tesco can buy land, property and offer number of jobs.

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And all that while they employ not even half the people that are needed for SG's plan! Which means I'm all for what SG proposes cause it's healthier and sustainable. Screw Tesco and the likes.

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Originally Posted by ioan

:up:

PS: Is this becoming a trend or what?!

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Worrying, init? :laugh:

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Originally Posted by Mark

The problems with rail are many fold. Firstly a lack of rolling stock, secondly the railways are already exceptionally busy you can't just whack on additional trains like you can put lorrys on the road.

And most importantly, rail doesn't go to many places. It's much cheaper for Tesco to have one lorry which goes from depot to store, rather than lorry to rail to lorry.

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Mark, Tesco do have trains that carry good across the country on a daily basis though. There is at least one route that runs between the Midlands and Scotland via the Lake Disctrict. I've seen it numerous times. :) I do conceed the points you are making. The trains are schedule to a degree with what they can carry and they are subject to long stops waiting to let comuter trains past.

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Originally Posted by wedge

It's far more complex than just educating consumers, celebrity chefs and what Mary Portas screams. The likes of Tesco can buy land, property and offer number of jobs.

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Indeed. Those with a romanticised view of capitalism believe that every business has the chance to compete on a level playing field with the High Street giants. It blatantly isn't true.

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Originally Posted by Mark

The problems with rail are many fold. Firstly a lack of rolling stock, secondly the railways are already exceptionally busy you can't just whack on additional trains like you can put lorrys on the road.

And most importantly, rail doesn't go to many places. It's much cheaper for Tesco to have one lorry which goes from depot to store, rather than lorry to rail to lorry.

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What are the figures for amounts (i.e. percentages) of freight transported by rail in the UK compared to other European countries? I was under the impression that the UK lagged some way behind. Whatever, there is undoubtedly an obsession in some quarters with transporting freight by road when rail would be a perfectly acceptable alternative, backed up by a road haulage lobby that is far more powerful than its rail equivalent. And innovative ideas such as running freight trams, now seen on the streets of Amsterdam, have never gained much ground in Britain even when the infrastructure exists.

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Originally Posted by ioan

To be honest, the best way to improve traffic is to have an IQ test before giving someone a driving license, no license for those with a coefficient under 100. Problem solved.

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The real answer is for the traffic cops to be given the power to issue more cautions for minor driving offences/bad driving. These cautions work in two ways - deleted from the records if a re-test is taken, or converted into points and a stiff fine if a re-offence committed within 5 years. Education is the key.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

What are the figures for amounts (i.e. percentages) of freight transported by rail in the UK compared to other European countries? I was under the impression that the UK lagged some way behind. Whatever, there is undoubtedly an obsession in some quarters with transporting freight by road when rail would be a perfectly acceptable alternative, backed up by a road haulage lobby that is far more powerful than its rail equivalent. And innovative ideas such as running freight trams, now seen on the streets of Amsterdam, have never gained much ground in Britain even when the infrastructure exists.

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The British mentality is fundamentally flawed. Most major cities HAD trams operating in them. Quite why they were all abolished beggers belief - only to be re-introduced (Sheffield, Croydon etc) at great cost and disruption during the construction phase.

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

The British mentality is fundamentally flawed. Most major cities HAD trams operating in them. Quite why they were all abolished beggers belief - only to be re-introduced (Sheffield, Croydon etc) at great cost and disruption during the construction phase.

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The trams were very expensive to run, had crumbing infrastructure which badly needed completely replacing at great expense. vs diesel buses which didn't need tracks to run on, didn't need infrastructure apart from roads and bus stops and could go anywhere and be completely flexible, it's not hard to see why the trams were removed.

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Originally Posted by Mark

The trams were very expensive to run, had crumbing infrastructure which badly needed completely replacing at great expense. vs diesel buses which didn't need tracks to run on, didn't need infrastructure apart from roads and bus stops and could go anywhere and be completely flexible, it's not hard to see why the trams were removed.

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So why bring them back? Take a look at Regent Street or any major London route these days - wall to wall buses stuck in a traffic jam, burning up diesel while stationary. If that isn't very costly as opposed to an electric powered tram, which only consumes power when moving then what is????

A traditional diesel bus really only ought to be used for rural services.

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

So why bring them back? Take a look at Regent Street or any major London route these days - wall to wall buses stuck in a traffic jam, burning up diesel while stationary. If that isn't very costly as opposed to an electric powered tram, which only consumes power when moving then what is????

A traditional diesel bus really only ought to be used for rural services.

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Because the world isn't static. The situation we find ourselves in now is very different to when the trams were taken out.