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Actually, at Catalunya 09 the team orders (IIRC) were issued at the end of day 1 when Sordo was leading. So DS went slower on the first Saturday stage and both Loeb and Sordo were jumped by....Ogier :) . But normal service was soon resumed.Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
that is absolutely correct - i do not remember each time that one of Loeb's teammates slowed for him. i agree that Loeb has the most wins in WRC history and has broken more records than any other driver. that alone is impressive beyond belief. that does not discount the possibilities of team orders coming into play.Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
do i believe that team orders were enacted 65 times? no. but, it certainly is more than 1 or 2 times. :)
Ogier is a driver and a racer, much in the same way that Juha Kankkunen is when the Subaru team orders were for him to slow to allow Richard Burns to win in Argentina 1999 - which Juha did not.
hey! you didn't give video proof... you must be lying! :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Mintexmemory
NO team orders applied after day 2...during day 2 Sordo took again the lead but lost it to Loeb at the end of the day by 1.5 (while hirvonen wa 3rd a million seconds behind already from day 1 so they could apply team orders by the end of day 1 but they did not)Quote:
Originally Posted by Mintexmemory
check results
Výsledky Rallye: Výsledky on-line
I am waitting for the facts....you are not producing any.....Quote:
Originally Posted by not12listen
and the catalunya incident was pointed out by me....
wake up.
racing-underground, rally anarchy, 10-tenths motorsports. those are the ones that i recall off the top of my head. but, you're a smart guy... you can search around and find more than just this one. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
I already did, the fact that Sordo took the lead again on the Saturday only shows how much he had to rein in to let Seb past. It was clear at the time that team orders were in play all day Saturday (Day 2). What Sordo was doing in fact was registering his protest on Day 2 as he desperately wanted to win that event. If he'd known how he was going to be treated by Citroen he might have taken a different view.Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
That is an assumption not the facts...because Loeb wasn't slowing down thus taking risks, because his difference with hirvonen increased....
i am talking about serious ones...anyway, bring the facts whenever you can....66 wins...take your time.Quote:
Originally Posted by not12listen
:laugh: Good one N.O.TQuote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
Was this thread about Seb Ogier?
Many facts are also produced from lies! Just look at politics and big companies who always lie to the common people.Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
yes but it derailed a little bit...well since there are no news about him i think we are allowed to discuss about other things which are relevant in some way.
not in rallying...facts are facts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother John
the only example rallying has is that of papaer champ Biasion. and still his days were short thank god.
Not in rallying? Ford, Citroën and more car factories are big companies!Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
I had a lot to do with several car companies and especially in France and Germany.
Will certainly not say what I have experienced and seen there
concerning Ogier...
RallySport Magazine - EXCLUSIVE: Ogier set to join Ford for 2012 WRC
Ogier said he is not looking at other teams/changes for the rest of this season, he wants to focus on the remaining rallies.
well isn't that obvious ??? who changes teams with 3 rallies remaining ??? who has ever done that ??Quote:
Originally Posted by GigiGalliNo1
As for Ogier to Ford...forget it.
Well, I agree on the first part .. lolQuote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
But the second part remains to be unknown as Ogier definitely isn't happy at the moment. And yes, Ford is weaker team than Citroen, but when you're unhappy then strange things could happen. We'll see
Ogiers only real option is Loeb stopping at Citoen after 2012, or Ogier leave for VW in 2013. Going to Ford for 2012 is a lost year, he better stay at Citroen, take some **** for playing second fidle but he also will have more opertunities for wins then with Ford. Stay with Citroen in 2012, make the best of it, and leave fot VW in 2013
guys Ogier has 4 wins this year...does this sounds like second fiddle to you ???
it is absolutely normal when things clear for the championship a team to favour the guy with the best chances over the other....
if you cannot understand some basic things stick to watching ladys cups and your local village events...
Ogier was indeed no second fiddle this season, and he won 4 rallies. untill Loeb got higer up to the board of Citroen, and demanded and got an aplication to his new contract, saying he wil be no 1 driver and when teamorders are necessarily with Citroen Sport the driver having to follow that teamorders will not be him. The board of PSA were eager to keep Loeb in the team, so they accepted this application to his new contract. In 2012 Ogier will see more temaorders coming his way.
You got it wrong!Quote:
Originally Posted by alleskids
Loeb got a very good offer from VW and he was really considering leaving Citroen. Jean-Marc Gales (from the Citroen board) asked Loeb to stay, not the other way around! Loeb didnt "got higher up the board of Citroen and demanded".
How else would people speculate if he's changing teams or not. I've just written what I heard, who knows if I didn't hear what I heard and wrote it here NOT then someone would have just written that he IS looking at other teams this year! So sorry for writing something I didn't find obvious!
can you please post Loebs contract ? since you posts such things i am sure you had a look at it...post it please.Quote:
Originally Posted by alleskids
I know you do not believe anything which is not utmost positive on Loeb without legal proof, but why you do not ask ask Ogier, he has seen Loebs contract?
no need for legal proof...what i do not like is unbased speculations
Loeb got a contract in 2011 and everybody said that in this contract he will be considered No1 in 2012 and 2013. What you do not understand is that ogier signed a 3 YEAR contract (up to 2013) in which there are some rules in it...and i doubt that there is a clause for No2 driver in it (because he won this year, if he was No2 he would not be allowed to do so)...So unless Citroen are a bunch of amateur morons (which i doubt) i do not think they put a rule in Loebs contract which makes ogier No2 since that would lead to legal actions from ogiers part.
Please base your assumptions on known facts and not Ifs, maybes ects.
By the way how is archive searching goes Mr not12listen with a wife, an MR2 and a life??? no more lies to throw at Loeb ???
keep searching i can wait.
I dont think Ogier was signed until 2013, I remember both Loeb and Ogier were signed for 1 year with an extension clause, I might be wrong though.
When you go to work, there's boss. When he says something, you have to listen. So if citroen boss said to Ogier to pull over for 10 minutes, that's it. Otherwise you can be fired and find your place somewhere else. Quesnell thought Loeb would retire and that's why he wanted Ogier to be in the team. Next year it will be different with startegies. Every rally Ogier starts behind Loeb and day by day it's same. Few years ago Hirvonen won 3 or 4 rallies in one season and where's he now?! Second. My hat off to Loeb - king of WRC.
you are wrong Francis
“I’d like to thank Citroën for renewing its confidence in me, and what’s more, for three seasons! I made my world championship debut with this team, and I’ve always said that my priority was to stay with them. I’m thrilled at the idea of driving the new generation World Rally Cars, and of defending the colours of the make at the topmost level. Like Sébastien, I’m fully concentrated on the end of this season starting with the Finnish Rally, where I’ll be part of the Citroën Total World Rally Team for the first time!”
in 2010
Well this is no ordinary "employe". At the moment very few drivers can replace Ogier if any regarding speed, so Citroen might be putting themselves in a very dangerous situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barreis
Sordo was an ideal second driver. No big deal, Loeb wins drivers crown and citroen manufacturers. With Ogier they have another driver who can win when somebody else cleans the road infront of him for two or three days.
Ogier has won rallies from the front as well...
NOT, I tend to agree with you. Ogier has a talent close to, if not equal to, Loeb's and a move away from Citroen wouldn't benefit either party and is unlikely.
Nevertheless, many will believe that there is no smoke without fire. The goal posts have surely shifted significantly over the past few weeks and not in Ogier's favour. Of course there will not be comment from Ogier whilst he remains in contention for the 2011 title.
If both finish in rallies then Loeb takes the championship, thats what the team orders suggest in Australia in my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by sollitt
There is no way for Ogier to win against Loeb this year with Hirvonen 3rd...if Hirvonen retires then they might allow him to win.
Just remember what Guy Frequelin said about "if" ..... something unflattering about his grandmother.
David Evans take on the subject, Why Ogier's Citroen future is in doubt - AUTOSPORT PLUS
subscription part of autosport.com but here is the cruicial part
The talk down under was of a straight swap between Hirvonen and Ogier.
Could Hirvonen swap seats with Ogier next year?
Given Ogier's reluctance to shed any light on such a deal, I sought the opinion of the Finn. He promised this was the first he'd heard of it. And he looked entirely genuine. Entirely genuine right up until the point where he did one of those grins
Lol..
desperate little brittish reporters....how sad...
sorry guys the pain will continue until 2013...get ready.
First of all let us see if Ford will be in the WRC next year...Quote:
Originally Posted by MJW
another extract
There are a couple of stumbling blocks to a possible deal. The first is that Ford has yet to commit beyond this season (although this is increasingly seen as a matter of when rather than if);