New car news!!

When the people were dying at speeds pushing 240, no one was wearing a HANS and it was with chassis designed in the 90's originally.

I think this car with modern improvements will be safer at higher speeds.

I do think this car looks better, and since this is but ONE design, that is the key. Other body kits for this chassis will give the car a different look...and different engines will also spread the field a little. Hey...it is something new....and with more power, the drivers will have to work harder. None of this is a bad thing... and THAT my friends is the real point.

Safer? Safer for whom, the drivers or the rest of the folks at the track... pit crews, corner workers, spectators? Yes, the chassis improvements have mitigated a lot of the driver safety issues, but have done little or nothing to answer the other group of folks at risk with higher speeds. As I have said many times before, I think the constant chasing the dragon represented by "a new track record" is a fool's errand. I think it touches a chord in only a very small, yet vocal, constituency of Indy car fans. We do not need constantly higher speeds to create good racing or fan excitement.

Gary

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Originally Posted by SarahFan

Were their more fatalities with speeds under 200 or over 200?

Honest question

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Of course there were more under 200, but that is because there were many more miles driven under 200 and more miles driven in clearly unsafe equipment. I think the proper question would be:

Were their more fatalities per mile drive under 200 or over 200?

Gary

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Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa

When the people were dying at speeds pushing 240, no one was wearing a HANS and it was with chassis designed in the 90's originally.

I think this car with modern improvements will be safer at higher speeds.

I do think this car looks better, and since this is but ONE design, that is the key. Other body kits for this chassis will give the car a different look...and different engines will also spread the field a little. Hey...it is something new....and with more power, the drivers will have to work harder. None of this is a bad thing... and THAT my friends is the real point.

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There is no doubt the new car provides a good safety cell for the driver, the safer barriers provide another way to reduce damage when contact is with the walls, the Hans device has greatly reduced the number of deaths due to the head continuing while the torso stopped, but what have they done to keep the cars out of the grandstands? Those tunnels still turn into wing bottoms when the attitude changes.

I would love to see a new track record at Indy or any other oval, but when we kill spectators the game is over. Enjoy the speed increases at the road and street circuits. The records for the ovals may be beat by fractions but I don't anticipate a 10 mph increase at any oval.

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Originally Posted by garyshell

Safer? Safer for whom, the drivers or the rest of the folks at the track... pit crews, corner workers, spectators? Yes, the chassis improvements have mitigated a lot of the driver safety issues, but have done little or nothing to answer the other group of folks at risk with higher speeds. As I have said many times before, I think the constant chasing the dragon represented by "a new track record" is a fool's errand. I think it touches a chord in only a very small, yet vocal, constituency of Indy car fans. We do not need constantly higher speeds to create good racing or fan excitement.

Gary

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The current car certainly has items in place to help the driver and others you mention. New to this car is the wider body work, and rear crash structurewhich are in place to prevent wheel-to-wheel contact and the flying caraccidents that can result. This is better for drivers and those at the track.

Carry over safety features that protect others at the track include teathered wheel hubs, and rear wings. The wheel teathers came about after CARTand the IRL had fan fatalities at Michigan and Charlotte within a year of each other. The wheel stays were also in place to keep awheel in place even if the nut was left off, again to prevent a wheel fromcoming off and potentially getting jettisoned into the stands like what happenedin 1987.

We can hope and pray that the changes will help prevent ANY fatalities, butthere at times things can happen which no one can predict.

EagleEye, yes I should have been more clear I was referring to the previous iterations chassis throughout the years. I am a BIG fan of the structures on the new car to prevent wheel to wheel contact. And while the tethers are designed to do this, too many times they have failed. (Not to suggest they be eliminated, mind you.) But again I was really thinking more about the specific effects ot 240+ mph speeds and what those effects have on the saftey of all of those around the track.

Gary

Ratings and attendance are at all time lows.... Clearly those who opion is wrong .......i

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Originally Posted by garyshell

Safer? Safer for whom, the drivers or the rest of the folks at the track... pit crews, corner workers, spectators? Yes, the chassis improvements have mitigated a lot of the driver safety issues, but have done little or nothing to answer the other group of folks at risk with higher speeds. As I have said many times before, I think the constant chasing the dragon represented by "a new track record" is a fool's errand. I think it touches a chord in only a very small, yet vocal, constituency of Indy car fans. We do not need constantly higher speeds to create good racing or fan excitement.

Gary

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So fan support is based soley on chasing the dragon? Is that what you are saying?

Gary

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Originally Posted by SarahFan

Ratings and attendance are at all time lows.... Clearly those who opion is wrong .......i

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Attendance at Indy has been increasing the last 5 for so years and last year was the best since the split.

There is no doubt a new track record would be exciting, but a car, not a wheel, wing or chassis part, in the grandstand would end it all. Briscoe was 25 feet in the air and the new rear bumper would not have come into play.

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Originally Posted by garyshell

So fan support is based soley on chasing the dragon? Is that what you are saying?

Gary

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No .... I'm suggesting your claim that only a handful of diehard forum posters care claim is clearly false...

The current post split retuned Honda outdated da Lara era has, besides an occasional blip, produced the lowest rated and attended era the sport has ever seen....and not just talking the 500....

That is indisputable .....clearly the silent majority have spoken....

A car going into the stands is certainly a possibility - but it is still pretty unlikely. Cars have come close - but it has not happened. The accidents where the car really tears up the fence look dramatic and tragedy is certainly close - but in effect the car and fence did their jobs.....

What I am trying to say is that we cannot make rules based ONLY on the worst case scenario. Yes, it COULD happen - but reasonable measures are in place to drastically limit the possibility and I think the same will be true even with newer, faster cars....

I would point out also, that the new car is lighter - IF it gets airborne it is all the more likely to catch air and dissipate its energy fairly quickly as opposed to a much heavier stock car traveling at the same speed......

Again not saying it won't happen - but I am saying it is an inherent risk to the sport and they have done a pretty good job to ensure it is really unlikely.....

Naturally, the results of a car going into the stands would be terrible - but people still go the sprint car races where cars end up outside of the racing area quite often (relatively speaking) and people have been and are killed by flying race cars....

I am absolutely not saying I want or wish for any drivers to get injured or certainly killed, however, a big part of the appeal of car racing to the casual fan (ie the majority of fans) is the danger aspect of it. If and when there are no crashes, no drivers putting their butts on the line, car racing as a sport will be effectively finished. Everyone here is aware that car racing in general has lost a bit of popularity in the last decade or two. There are a number of factors for this, but let's not be naive and think that the lack of speed records and risk-taking on track has nothing to do with it.

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Originally Posted by garyshell

EagleEye, yes I should have been more clear I was referring to the previous iterations chassis throughout the years. I am a BIG fan of the structures on the new car to prevent wheel to wheel contact. And while the tethers are designed to do this, too many times they have failed. (Not to suggest they be eliminated, mind you.) But again I was really thinking more about the specific effects ot 240+ mph speeds and what those effects have on the saftey of all of those around the track.

Gary

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I gotcha, point taken.

I will say the biggest fear of every series leader, teamowner, supplier, track promoter and sponsor is a car going into the stands. The liability insurance each entity must carry is staggering.

When one thinks of the countries that banned racing afterthe 1955 Le Mans disaster, and some of the countries that still outlaw motor racing racing, a similar result could be devastating to all motorsports.

And that is precisely what I meant about chasing the dragon. Unlike some folks, I just don't see the constant quest for more speed as a factor in a good racing series.

Gary

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Originally Posted by SarahFan

No .... I'm suggesting your claim that only a handful of diehard forum posters care claim is clearly false...

The current post split retuned Honda outdated da Lara era has, besides an occasional blip, produced the lowest rated and attended era the sport has ever seen....and not just talking the 500....

That is indisputable .....clearly the silent majority have spoken....

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Yes they and the not so silent minority have all spoken, I just don't see anything to backup the claim that they have spoken about the lack of speed records.

I am not, as some have suggested, saying we need to remove all the risk from the sport. What I am saying is it has been very exciting in the past when speeds were at 150 (no I am NOT suggesting we go back to that slow pace, just using an example). Back when we had lots less down force, harder tire compounds, the need to brake on all ovals, and cars sliding all four wheels in corners. It gave an illusion of speed, if you will, that transcends the numbers on a stop watch.

Look neither one of us has any real polling data to back up our claims. I wish there was some real data. I do know there is a point when the speeds will out pace the safety of the crowds. I don't know where that number is, nor do I want to find out. That's why I feel so strongly that we should pursue a way to make things exciting for the paying customer without the continued expectation that this year the car will be faster than the last.


Gary

Speed or a random draw form starting position.... Hmmmm...I'll take the speed..

So my question still stands Gary ... If the car isn't going to be faster then why bother ?.... Why not just grandfather in the current car?

Being faster doesn't have to mean top line speed. A quicker more agile car with the right engine formula could get around the track faster. That is what I'm excited to see!

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Originally Posted by garyshell

Yes they and the not so silent minority have all spoken, I just don't see anything to backup the claim that they have spoken about the lack of speed records.

I am not, as some have suggested, saying we need to remove all the risk from the sport. What I am saying is it has been very exciting in the past when speeds were at 150 (no I am NOT suggesting we go back to that slow pace, just using an example). Back when we had lots less down force, harder tire compounds, the need to brake on all ovals, and cars sliding all four wheels in corners. It gave an illusion of speed, if you will, that transcends the numbers on a stop watch.

Look neither one of us has any real polling data to back up our claims. I wish there was some real data. I do know there is a point when the speeds will out pace the safety of the crowds. I don't know where that number is, nor do I want to find out. That's why I feel so strongly that we should pursue a way to make things exciting for the paying customer without the continued expectation that this year the car will be faster than the last.


Gary

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While I see your point and don't necessarily disagree ... Back when they were doing "only" 150mph, that was fast. They were pushing the limits. It was dangerous. It wasn't the illusion of speed it was speed.

New car news is that, there is no news. I think Indycar is missing great opportunity to talk and advertise new car now that hungry fans have expressed so much interest. Testing is going on and no comments how did test go or how new engine is working out including test driver first impression. I'm a fan of inovation and tech. therefore I'm puzzeled why so quiet when this is the biggest news since unification. O yeah, please remove that fake air box. My opinon.

What are the top three differences between the new car and the old car?

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Originally Posted by FIAT1

New car news is that, there is no news. I think Indycar is missing great opportunity to talk and advertise new car now that hungry fans have expressed so much interest. Testing is going on and no comments how did test go or how new engine is working out including test driver first impression. I'm a fan of inovation and tech. therefore I'm puzzeled why so quiet when this is the biggest news since unification. O yeah, please remove that fake air box. My opinon.

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Originally Posted by SarahFan

What are the top three differences between the new car and the old car?

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One big difference between new and old car is that you have new reason for onother post therefore you can vin a medal for most posts written, and other two you will tell me after you drive new car yourself. Now read again and you will find that opputunity to advertise is to have pictures and story in every car magazine , sport pages in the paper etc. They need help and I think they missing it when they have a chance like this.

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Originally Posted by chuck34

While I see your point and don't necessarily disagree ... Back when they were doing "only" 150mph, that was fast. They were pushing the limits. It was dangerous. It wasn't the illusion of speed it was speed.

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Yes, of course you are right it was speed. All I was trying to get across was that we could keep the same speeds we have today and still make it look as if they are going much faster. Crowds LOVE oversteer. Some if the biggest cheers I remember were watching Montoya and Zanardi with opposite lock in a corner or sawing at the wheel.

Gary

The car mags and sports pages don't care because it's the exact same car.... Simply isn't a story...

And what does my post count have to do with anything? Nothing.... But nice deflection

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Originally Posted by FIAT1

One big difference between new and old car is that you have new reason for onother post therefore you can vin a medal for most posts written, and other two you will tell me after you drive new car yourself. Now read again and you will find that opputunity to advertise is to have pictures and story in every car magazine , sport pages in the paper etc. They need help and I think they missing it when they have a chance like this.

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Originally Posted by garyshell

Yes, of course you are right it was speed. All I was trying to get across was that we could keep the same speeds we have today and still make it look as if they are going much faster. Crowds LOVE oversteer. Some if the biggest cheers I remember were watching Montoya and Zanardi with opposite lock in a corner or sawing at the wheel.

Gary

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Again, I'm not really disagreeing with you. But oversteer and opposite lock are not the fast ways around the track. They were doing that because they were a bit less than optimal on set-ups. Engineers now (I realized the situation you were talking about wasn't realy that long ago, but tech is much advanced) usually get rid of that, at least on the good cars. My point is that even if you designed cars to oversteer, required lots of opposite lock, etc, the engineers would fairly quickly figure out a way to eliminate it.

Now one thing that might help your point of view would be to go back to bias ply tires. That could make things interesting. :D

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Originally Posted by SarahFan

The car mags and sports pages don't care because it's the exact same car.... Simply isn't a story...

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How is it the exact same car?

V8 normally aspirated vs V6 single or twin turbos.

Single manufacturer engines vs multiple

Heavy "old" technology tubs vs new lighter more advanced tubs that reduce weight and increase safety.

Measures taken to address "flight" from interlocking wheels.

More aero coming from the undertray instead of wings, reducing trailing turbulence, increasing passing opportunities.

Different body work at least between ovals and road courses, if not from car to car.

I could go on. But I guess you're right in the sence that a Formula Continental, Formula Atlantic, '96 Reynard, '97 G-Force, DP-01, Ferrari F1, and this new Dallara are all the same. They all have 4 wheels and wings.

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Originally Posted by chuck34

How is it the exact same car?

V8 normally aspirated vs V6 single or twin turbos.

Single manufacturer engines vs multiple

Heavy "old" technology tubs vs new lighter more advanced tubs that reduce weight and increase safety.

Measures taken to address "flight" from interlocking wheels.

More aero coming from the undertray instead of wings, reducing trailing turbulence, increasing passing opportunities.

Different body work at least between ovals and road courses, if not from car to car.

I could go on. But I guess you're right in the sence that a Formula Continental, Formula Atlantic, '96 Reynard, '97 G-Force, DP-01, Ferrari F1, and this new Dallara are all the same. They all have 4 wheels and wings.

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Just because I take a 2010 Camaro, replace the V8 with a V6, change the steel hood to a carbon fiber one and add stickier tires, and a chin spoiler to it doesn't make it a new car.

It's like Sarahfan says, if the new car isn't going to go faster what is the point?

So you swapped powerplants. Who cares. Is the new one lighter? Is it more powerful? More useable torque?

So there are new body panels. Big whoop. Does it make the car go faster?

Go pull out any number of different cars from the Indy museum and they would not only dust the current car they would also smoke the new one.

This was just one big giant exercise of futility. The new car accomplishes nothing.

here's the thing Chuck.....no one gives a flying F$%k the new undertray will produce less turbulence... heck the engineers will figure out how to produce it elsewhere becuase guess what,,,they dont want other cars following their cars too closely........Im a diehard prototypical indycar fan and i dont care..

this isnt rocket science..... this sport needs something to build on.....a shakedown at mid-ohio: YAWN!......

put Wheldon behind the wheel and go run an unofficial 244 at Fontana..... then instruct every driver, owner, official team member and tire changer to bring up how excited they are to run for a new track record at indy next may...

the times tribune hereld espn NSSN and sports illustrated will take notice......trust me, they dont care that lotus is going to make a new front wing that will essentially look like every other front wing for the past 40 years

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Originally Posted by Loneranger

Just because I take a 2010 Camaro, replace the V8 with a V6, change the steel hood to a carbon fiber one and add stickier tires, and a chin spoiler to it doesn't make it a new car.

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But if instead of a 2010 Camaro, you used a prototype to a different design, it would be a new car. This is an all new tub. It may look the same on a quick look, but so would an F1 car to an untrained eye.

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Originally Posted by Loneranger

It's like Sarahfan says, if the new car isn't going to go faster what is the point?

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So the "fans" keep b!tching about using museum/historic cars. Then they get a new one and they b!tch about it being "slow", and this before we even know it's speed. What do you want them to do besides use the DP-01 (which I honestly think would be the only thing to make some people happy).

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Originally Posted by Loneranger

So you swapped powerplants. Who cares. Is the new one lighter? Is it more powerful? More useable torque?

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lighter, check. More powerful, I believe it will be on road courses when they turn up the boost. Useable torque, I haven't seen the dyno sheets so don't know.

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Originally Posted by Loneranger

So there are new body panels. Big whoop. Does it make the car go faster?

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They very well could. We don't know.

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Originally Posted by Loneranger

Go pull out any number of different cars from the Indy museum and they would not only dust the current car they would also smoke the new one.

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Go pull Bill Elliott's car from Talladega '88 and it will go faster than the current NASCAR car. So what?

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Originally Posted by Loneranger

This was just one big giant exercise of futility. The new car accomplishes nothing.

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Some people only see what they want to see. Why not give it a chance before actually b!tching for a change?

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Originally Posted by SarahFan

here's the thing Chuck.....no one gives a flying F$%k the new undertray will produce less turbulence...

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The people who want more passing in the sport give a F$%k.

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Originally Posted by SarahFan

heck the engineers will figure out how to produce it elsewhere becuase guess what,,,they dont want other cars following their cars too closely

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Maybe, maybe not. But if Indycar doesn't let them stray too far from the tunnel/wing ratio, I bet they don't. But let's see how things develop before passing judgement.

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Originally Posted by SarahFan

........Im a diehard prototypical indycar fan and i dont care..

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Why not? Is it honestly all about a new record at Indy? I'm with you on that. I would love to see it. But it just isn't going to happen. But we very well may see new track records at road courses, and maybe even some short ovals if thing work out right.

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Originally Posted by SarahFan

this isnt rocket science..... this sport needs something to build on.....a shakedown at mid-ohio: YAWN!......

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What in the world do you expect from them? A shakedown at Mid-Ohio is the first step in a multi-step process. You don't go out and run 250 at Indy the first time the thing hits the track. Back "in the day" when chassis changed every year the first step was always always a shakedown somewhere, probably Firehawk or Phoenix, that didn't have much fanfare. So what do you honestly want them to do?

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Originally Posted by SarahFan

put Wheldon behind the wheel and go run an unofficial 244 at Fontana..... then instruct every driver, owner, official team member and tire changer to bring up how excited they are to run for a new track record at indy next may...

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Fine. Let's go do 244 at Fontana. I've got no problem with that. But you DO NOT DO THAT THE FIRST TIME A CAR HITS THE TRACK!!!!!!!!. That would be utterly stupid, dangerous, and no one in their right minds would agree to that.

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Originally Posted by SarahFan

the times tribune hereld espn NSSN and sports illustrated will take notice......trust me, they dont care that lotus is going to make a new front wing that will essentially look like every other front wing for the past 40 years

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They don't care about anything right now. I honestly think that if you went and did 244 at Fontana or 250 at Indy, you'd pretty much get the same reaction from the main-stream press right now. Hell when the Thrust SSC broke the sound berrier it barely got a blip from most media outlets.

"the Thrust SSC broke the sound berrier" WHAAAAAT? When did this happen???












;)

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Originally Posted by chuck34

But if instead of a 2010 Camaro, you used a prototype to a different design, it would be a new car. This is an all new tub. It may look the same on a quick look, but so would an F1 car to an untrained eye.

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Most effing fans out there have an untrained eye!

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Originally Posted by chuck34

So the "fans" keep b!tching about using museum/historic cars. Then they get a new one and they b!tch about it being "slow", and this before we even know it's speed. What do you want them to do besides use the DP-01 (which I honestly think would be the only thing to make some people happy).

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Uncap the hp limits on the current car, open up the design a bit, that would keep me happy. Just give me a faster car period. Don't care if it is new, old, pretty, ugly, doesn't matter. Make it fing fast and hard to drive!!!

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Originally Posted by chuck34

Go pull Bill Elliott's car from Talladega '88 and it will go faster than the current NASCAR car. So what?

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Have you noticed the declining attendance in NASCAR? ;)

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Originally Posted by chuck34

The people who want more passing in the sport give a F$%k.

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There is tons of passing in the series right now. When they aren't crashing into each other which has nothing to do with the handling of these cars. Has to do with idiots behind the wheel.

With Barnharts stupid passing zones and passing rules it really doesn't matter how much or how little turbulence comes off these cars when you are forced to leave an inside lane wide open.

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Originally Posted by Loneranger

Most effing fans out there have an untrained eye!

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Ok, so what would you have the league do? Deltawing? Closed cockpit? What? Then we'd have a whole 'nother group whining about it isn't an Indycar or something simmilar.

You (and Ken/Sarahfan) seem to somehow think this is just new body work on the old tub. It isn't, it's a whole new chassis. I don't know how much difference would please you guys. Like I said if you put an unpainted, stripped down Ferrari tub next to a new Dallara tub in the same condition you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. But there is a difference.

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Originally Posted by Loneranger

Uncap the hp limits on the current car

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To an extent this is what they are doing. They are going to allow higher boost on the road courses. Or are you proposing a completely uncapped limit? Good luck with that. I'd love to see it too, but this is the real world.

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Originally Posted by Loneranger

open up the design a bit, that would keep me happy.

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Again, this is what they are doing. It may not be at the start of next year, but at some point there will be different aero kits allowed. Why are you not happy about that? Sure it may not happen as soon as we may want, but it is coming (at least that's the plan now).

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Originally Posted by Loneranger

Just give me a faster car period. Don't care if it is new, old, pretty, ugly, doesn't matter.

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But this car has the potential to be faster on road courses and you're still b!tching, why?

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Originally Posted by Loneranger

Make it fing fast and hard to drive!!!

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Who's standard do we measure that against?

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Originally Posted by Loneranger

Have you noticed the declining attendance in NASCAR? ;)

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Yep, my theory involves more about brand identity for that one, not speed reduction (see the rise in NASCAR popularity from the top of speed in '88 to about 2000). And they've also slowed down F1, and pretty much every series out there in the last 20 years or so. The reality of the day and age we live in. If you are advocating a "run what ya brung" series, move the stands back, have the drivers sign their lives away, and let 'er rip, then I'm with you. But that is not reality as it stands.

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Originally Posted by Loneranger

There is tons of passing in the series right now. When they aren't crashing into each other which has nothing to do with the handling of these cars. Has to do with idiots behind the wheel.

With Barnharts stupid passing zones and passing rules it really doesn't matter how much or how little turbulence comes off these cars when you are forced to leave an inside lane wide open.

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Wasn't too long ago when I heard lots of whining about no passing or parades. I guess the race at Mid-Ohio must have been so long ago now that we've all forgotten.

I'm with you on the passing zone rule BS

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Originally Posted by chuck34

Ok, so what would you have the league do? Deltawing? Closed cockpit? What? Then we'd have a whole 'nother group whining about it isn't an Indycar or something simmilar.

You (and Ken/Sarahfan) seem to somehow think this is just new body work on the old tub. It isn't, it's a whole new chassis. I don't know how much difference would please you guys. Like I said if you put an unpainted, stripped down Ferrari tub next to a new Dallara tub in the same condition you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. But there is a difference.

To an extent this is what they are doing. They are going to allow higher boost on the road courses. Or are you proposing a completely uncapped limit? Good luck with that. I'd love to see it too, but this is the real world.

Again, this is what they are doing. It may not be at the start of next year, but at some point there will be different aero kits allowed. Why are you not happy about that? Sure it may not happen as soon as we may want, but it is coming (at least that's the plan now).

But this car has the potential to be faster on road courses and you're still b!tching, why?

Who's standard do we measure that against?

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Yadda, yadda yadda. The new car accomplishes nothing. It is a new design to achieve the same results, or very close to the same results. That could have been accomplished with the DP-01.

What would I have had the league do? Any of a number of options but the simplest one would be to put the 1300 pound new car out on track with a 1000 horsepower. Problem solved!

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Originally Posted by Loneranger

Yadda, yadda yadda. The new car accomplishes nothing. It is a new design to achieve the same results, or very close to the same results. That could have been accomplished with the DP-01.

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And the truth slips out. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Loneranger

What would I have had the league do? Any of a number of options but the simplest one would be to put the 1300 pound new car out on track with a 1000 horsepower. Problem solved!

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I'd pay to see that. But it isn't gonna happen. What is your realistic solution?

So earlier I was telling my buddy how excited I was for 2012 and the new car.... He. Asked why... So I said it's going to have a newly designed undertray that produces less turbulence..... He said 'than what' and proceeded to punch me in the face

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Originally Posted by SarahFan

So earlier I was telling my buddy how excited I was for 2012 and the new car.... He. Asked why... So I said it's going to have a newly designed undertray that produces less turbulence..... He said 'than what' and proceeded to punch me in the face

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Wow. Just wow. Why are you here. If nothing about Indycar excites you, then why are you here?

People b!tch about the series being "low tech". So the league gives them some different technologies on the car. They b!tch about it not being accessable to the fans.

People b!tch about the series having parades. So the league gives them a car with less turbulence to increase passing opportunities. They b!tch about it not being exciting enough.

People b!tch about the series not using turbos. So the league gives them a car with a turbo. They b!tch it isn't "uncapped".

People b!tch about the speeds being too low. So the league makes a car that can be faster on many tracks. They b!tch it isn't faster.

People b!tch about running museum/historic cars. So the league gives them distinctive looking new cars. They b!tch about the new car being "ugly" or still the same somehow.

People b!tch, people b!tch, people b!tch, people b!tch. And yet no one has even given the new car a chance. Nor has anyone given a REALISTIC alternative.

I know I'm comming off as defending the league and the car at all costs. I am not. I don't think it's perfect. There are lots of areas for improvement. But many of you are just ridiculous. There is one car that does not have the final body work. We have not seen any other alternative designs, we have not heard how it drives, we have not seen any times, we really don't know anything yet. This was the car's first shake down. Give it a chance, it has many of the features that the "fans" have said they want. That's all I'm saying.