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I dont know how I missed this awesome thread as its been here for so long.
Here's mine (and in no particular order so just because 1 is mentioned ahead of another doesn't mean I think that one is better, only that they came to mind first as I was typing). The numbers next to the names are there only to keep me within the parameters of the question, lol.
1) Dale Earnhardt, Sr-76 Sprint Cup wins, 7 Sprint Cup Championships, 97 combined NASCAR wins, Daytona 500 winner: Truly lived up to his nickname, the Intimidator. Was one of the few drivers in NASCAR who was able to take a 15th place car and finish in the top 10 with it, or a top 5 out of 10th place car. The word QUIT just wasn't in his vocabulary
2) Richard Petty-The King. 200 Sprint Cup Wins, 7 Sprint Cup Championships, 7 time Daytona 500 winner. Unless David Pearson was in the same race, the question of the day wasn't who was going to win, but really who was racing for second place.
3) Ayrton Senna- 3 WDC's, 41 Formula 1 victories in only 161 starts (which is a .254 win percentage) How many MORE would he have had if the cars of the day were more reliable (he DNF'd 64 times). Watching him manhandle a car was liking watching an artist. Oh, and no fewer than 6 victories at Monaco, to boot.
4) Michael Schumacher-7 WDC's. 91 Formula 1 Victories in 290 starts (.314 win percentage). When he retired after 2006 his win pct was .367. Absolutely domniating in his era, holds more f1 records than any driver-period. 5 wins at Monaco, too.
5) Mario Andretti-1 WDC and 19 F1 victories, 4 "Indy Car" Championships, 52 "Indy Car" wins, 1967 Daytona 500 winner, 1969 Indy 500 winner. As far as I know, he is the ONLY driver in the world who has won an F1 WDC, Indy 500, and Daytona 500. Oh yeah, he also has a class win in the 24 Hours of Le Mans (1995), and an Overall win in the 24 Hours of Daytona (1972), 3 wins in the 12 hours of Sebring (1967,1970,1972). An extremely versatile driver.
6) Tony Stewart- 3 Sprint Cup Championships, 46 Sprint Cup wins, 58 combined NASCAR wins, 1997 Indy Car Championship, 2 time Brickyard 400 winner (2005, 2007). Has won multiple times on every type of track NASCAR races on, and is the only driver that has championship trophies from both NASCAR and Indy Car in his trophy case.
7) Juan Manuel Fangio-5 WDC's, 22 Formula 1 Victories (in only 51 starts, a .431 win pctg). Until the Schu came along, Fangio was the measuring stick for DECADES when it came to WDC's.
8) Rick Mears-4 time Indy 500 winner. All that needs to be said.
9) David Pearson-3 Sprint Cup Championships, 105 Sprint Cup wins, 2 time Daytona 500 winner (1971, 1976). Second all time in cup wins to the King, which is even MORE astounding when one considers that for the major portion of his career he was a PART TIME DRIVER.
10) AJ Foyt-He was the first driver I can remember rooting for as a kid. 7 "Indy Car" Championships, 67 "Indy Car" wins, 4 Indy 500 Wins, 7 Sprint Cup wins, 1971 Daytona 500 Winner, 1967 24 Hours of Le Mans winner, 2 time 24 hours of Daytona winner, and also the 12 hours of Sebring (1985). He is the ONLY driver that has won the Indy 500, Daytona 500, 24 hours of Le Mans and the 24 hours of Daytona (though the argument can be made that Andretti may have duplicated that feat with his class win at Le Mans-I guess it depends on how much one values a class win).
Like I said in the beginning of this post, this was not done in any particular order, it was just the order they popped up in my head as I was typing. I am sorry I don't have any rally drivers on this list, as I have never had the opportunity to follow rally so I know nothing about the drivers. I am sure there are some who should be ranked up there, but I don't know who they are. In any event, this is just my list, and it's not the definitive be all and end all.
1 - Ayrton Senna
2 - Tazio Nuvolari
3 - Jim Clark
4 - Graham Hill
5 - Jackie Stewart
6 - Sandro Munari
7 - Jacky Ickx
8 - Juha Kankkunen
9 - Rick Mears
10 - Dale Earnhardt
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Type
iva.rpm,Quote:
Originally Posted by iva.rpm
Welcome to the history forum.
In future can I ask you to please read a thread before posting to it.
For me it is Stig Blomqvist!!
He is born in 1946. The first rally he entered he finnished 2nd in a Volvo 544.
He has won the Swedish Rally Championship in 1971,-73, -74, -75, -76, -78, -80, -82, and 1994.
In 1983 he won the Swedish Rallycross Championship.
He won the Swedish Hillclimb Championship in 1982, -83, -87, -88, -89, -93.
In 1990 he won the Swedish Group A Racing Championship.
He raced a M.A.N. in the European Truckracing Championship (Cant remember the year. ) He won the Race of Champions in 1989 and 1990.
In 1984 he became the World Rally Champion, he also won the first victory in a turbocharged car in the World Rally Championship in 1979. It was in a SAAB 99 Turbo, in the Swedish Rally. He has also won the Swedish Rally 7 times.
In 1996 he finnished 3rd in the R.A.C. Rally, in a frontwheel drive Skoda!!
In 2002 he finnished 4th overall in Pikes Peak. And he won the La Carerra Panamericana in a Studebaker, in 2009...........
In 2009 he was 63 years old, and he is still racing today!!
Hi, I'm new to the forum. I would say Sebastien Loeb, Jim Clark, Schumi, Fangio etc . I doubt that we will see any driver equal Seb Loeb's records in our lives. I rate Jim Clark because his driving was awesome in any car. Had tragedy not struck, I am sure he would have been number 1 on everybody's list
Jim Cark. On the rally side, the blindingly quick guys who survived in rallying in the crazy years were Walter Rohl, Ari Vatenen, Stig Blomquist. In more quiet era's Juha Kankkunen, Tommi Makinen, Roger Clark, Colin Mc Rae, Hannu Mikkola. Schumi and Fangio too.
Senna
Lauda
Clark
Andretti
Fangio
Prost
Schumacher
Donahue
Foyt
Belloff
Earnhardt\Tony Stewart
Few drives in motorsport have given me as much pleasure as did that! What a superb exhibition of handling an underpowered, two-wheel-drive car. Proves you don't need four-wheel-drive and a lot of power to be exciting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Volvo in Motorsport
Please read the second posting on this threadQuote:
Originally Posted by Mikey G
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Type
Look at some of the in car footage - completely calm and in control. Fabulous effort, and his interviews were cool, and calm personified. And if I remember rightly, one of the other Skodas, Emil Triner, had the fastest time on the long Hafren stage.Quote:
Originally Posted by BDunnell
Slightly off topic, but I wish the WRC was set up to enable lightweight 2WD cars to be competitive over a season, so a more even split of Tarmac/ Gravel.
I agree completely. Of course, the WRC was very briefly like that — in 1987, the first year after the end of Group B as the leading category. No-one really seemed to notice, given the sense of anti-climax the Group A cars seemed to generate, but I thought it was a great season. Three performances above all others stand out — Jean Ragnotti in the Renault 11 Turbo on the Portuguese Rally, Pentti Airikkala in an Opel Kadett GSi on the Manx International, and Louise Aitken-Walker in the Peugeot 205GTi on the RAC. Just like Blomqvist on that 1996 RAC, all were superb exhibitions of spectacular front-wheel-drive motoring in underpowered machinery, and on three very different events to boot.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyRAC
My ten best ALL-TIME are:
1: Mario Andretti
2: AJ Foyt
3: Richard Petty
4: Michael Schumacher
5: Alain Prost
6: Dale Earnhart
7: Ayrton Senna
8: Jimmy Clark
9: Rick Mears
10:Jackie Stewart
I chose my list in an ALL-TIME format as career achievements over time. Mario gets my vote as number one because no other major racer in history has won races and championships in so many types of cars over so many years. The same holds true for Foyt and Petty who rate high in my book because of what they accomplished over so much time. Men like Senna and Clark may have been the most brilliant in their own time but did so in a relatively short time span (tragically in both cases). Schumacher or Prost would rate higher on a different type of list - say the greatest ten years - but Schumey did have a whole team built around him. Soon a young German named Vettel and an American named Johnson may crack this list.
I do not know enough to accurately rate the drivers (though I suppose I could fall back on tallies of wins). However, there is one driver who impressed me with his rapid return to racing after a serious accident:
Niki Lauda
To suffer serious injuries on a track noted for its treacherousness and immediately jump back into the sport is impressive to me. I look forward to seeing the film later this year (Rush), and I hope it will be interesting and well presented.
Just to add a small note here.
I was up in Duns a couple of weeks ago to watch the Jim Clark Rally,and took two friends to show then Jims grave in Chirnside Cemetary.There was a florist putting flowers on Jims grave.I assumed that the Motor Club who ran the rally paid for them ,so I asked him.
He said NO,Jims sister is still alive,and she comes into my shop every month and pays for flowers to be put on Jims grave every two weeks from May until October Every year .
As regards Stig ,I have been in a lift with Stig,chatted for over 45 minutes with him in Cyprus,spoke with him at last years McRea stages maybe 2011,got footage of all the events when he did the rallsprints in late 80s,and he is sensational ,and a nice guy too. Iwould say maybe the best rally driver ever and I worked with Henri and rated him way above anybody else even though I may be biased
These lists tend to say far more about the person posting the choices, the timing of the topic, and the state of the forum (or magazine) than anything else.
The choices are opinions, informed or otherwise, quite subjective, and rarely very informative -- an observation derived from seeing dozens upon dozens (although it seems more like hundred upon hundreds if not thousands upon thousands...) of threads on this topic and its variations.
Personally, I have not a clue as to whom the "top 10 greatest drivers of all time" might be, nor do I waste much time pondering such things, in great part because I really do not care.
That there have been "great" drivers is, even I would suggest, a given, although such a superlative is often much abused by its being bantered about so readily by some, confusing "great" and "successful," which some would suggest are not the same at all, although some succeed at being both.
Some that might be considered as being "great" may not be necessarily very admirable, whereas some of those worthy of admiration might never be considered as "greats" even though they should be.
It never ceases to amaze me that someone still competing can be even considered as a superlative such as "great," given that it takes the passage of time to consider and then make such distinctions. Of course, that rarely bothers anyone given the very nature of these discussions in the first place.
Nor does "liking" someone automatically make him a nominee for greatness.
There is also a tendency to omit those beyond a Certain Time or in various modes of automotive sport, as well as there being a very marked trend to focus almost solely on one form of racing -- a redundent comment from above, but one worth repeating since it indicates the blinders that more often than not make such things even more irrelevant than they already are.
Just a few thoughts on the topic.
I don't know where he would fit in, but this list probably has to include somewhere Seb Loeb and who knows maybe a few other rally drivers, perhaps not all of WRC fame, but also from Dakar rally, hill climb, etc? Also Graham Hill could be worthy to be on the list, having won the triple crown of the motorsports.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollo
I'll bite... To begin, I'll dare to say it should not have been 7 for Prost. It seems like Prost fans now have some kind of Schumacher envy? Prost won 4, and the 1989 one was extremely controversial as he initiated the championship deciding collision at Suzuka and the behind the door politics at FIA ensured that Senna is disqualified from Suzuka, thus unable to challenge for the title. So formally Prost won 4 titles, but it really should have been 3 IMO. Should have Prost won the 1990 title? I don't think so, not with the lane swap at the starting grid that he was granted at 1990 Suzuka GP.
In fact, I can argue the reverse. If Senna lived and raced to the age of Mansel's or Prost's retirements, he could have easily eclipsed Fangio and our days's Schumacher. Senna won 3 WDCs, but it could have been 6 since he died still too early in his career. Had Senna not died and stayed in Williams from 1994 on, he could have a chance to win 1994, 1995, 1996, and 1997, since Williams was a dominant car from the late 1994 for years, exiting the world of F1 with 6-7 titles to Schumacher's 5-6 titles.
In conclusion, long live Prost-Senna rivalry!
Point of fact: Prost was not granted a lane swap at Suzuka in 1990
1988 - Pole on the right (Senna)
1989 - Pole on the right (Senna)
1990 - Pole on the right (Senna)
1991 - Pole on the left (Berger) - and ironically in 2nd place on the right we find Senna
Apologies. Should have researched more before posting this. However, you may have heard of that whole dispute. Senna won the pole position and demanded that the pole position has to be on the clean side of the race track. This petition was refused. This was interpreted as a favoritism towards Prost. Starting on the clean lane is extremely important. As many remember, as recently as 2012 USGP, Ferrari was willing to throw Massa under a bus to move Alonso one position up onto a clean lane.Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Type
In the light of this I do wonder, why didn't pole sitter in 1989 and 1988 complain about his side of grid? Was the racing line in a different side back then for some reason? Or perhaps Senna didn't possess this wisdom before the 1989 GP?
Yes, just part of the mythology that has grown up around Senna.
Remember that under the regulations at the time a driver could not make such a request - it had to be his entrant. So the scene in the Senna documentary where he accosts the Clerk of the Course [?] in his car is very illuminating. It tells us something of how Senna viewed his self importance. It offers one reason why the request was not granted.
-Michael Schumacher
-Mario Andretti
-Aryton Senna
-Carlos Sainz
-Jack Brabham
-Niki Lauda
-Alain Prost
-Dale Earnhardt Sr.
-A.J. Foyt
-Graham Hill
off course it's just my subjective
Musyarofah, welcome to the History Forum.
Threads on here tend to hang around for a long time and it's worth reading them through before posting. Did you read post #2?
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Type
thanks for all information about motorsport.
As a side note, I just watched the first 20 minutes of that film.Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Type
Any 'documentary' that includes the phrase, "He would take the car beyond its design capabilities" should be viewed with caution.
For me it's look like ;
1. Schumacher
2. Senna
3. Vettel
4. Prost
5. Hamilton
6. Alonso
7. Barrichelo
8. Kimi
9. Foyt
10. Webber
sammreddevilz,
Welcome to the History Forum.
Threads on here tend to hang around for a long time and it's worth reading them through before posting. Did you read post #2?
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Type
I am getting the distinct notion that the of writing sentences is, perhaps, a bridge too far for many...Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Type
I know so little about rally drivers, so my opinion is clearly limited. So, in no particular order:
Fangio
Clark
Mario Andretti
Foyt
Schumacher
Senna
Prost
Stewart
Vukovich
Tie for 10th: Alonso, Vettel, Al Unser, Bobby Unser, Alberto Ascari
I think it's fool's errand to fairly compare people like Fangio(even up to Clark) with people in the more modern era of F1. Back then it was more about having giant balls and being at peace with your possible death in any given race. Today it's more about how close to the "edge" you can push your car. The edge merely being the point where you lose control -- with a relatively minor chance of a serious injury.
Hi, keysersoze,Quote:
Originally Posted by keysersoze
It's nice to see you posting on the History forum.
Did you read the posts above yours and Post #2, which says:
Anybody can write a list - it's the reason behind the choices that people will be interested inQuote:
Originally Posted by D-Type
Putting aside the number of victories & other merits, and concentrating on sheer driving skill, some names from 1950s-70s come to mind. I don't know other eras that well. I would consider the best judges to be F1 drivers themselves, and top motor writers like Denis Jenkinson.
1. Alberto Ascari
2. Juan Manuel Fangio
3. Stirling Moss
There seems to have been quite a contemporary agreement on the virtuosity of these three.
4. Jim Clark
5. Dan Gurney. Jim Clark mentioned that Gurney is his most talented rival.
6. Jackie Stewart, from 1968 onwards: the '68 Nürburgring victory sounds pretty formidable.
7. Emerson Fittipaldi. Everyone seems to agree that he was a great driver, and would have won much more without Copersucar.
Of the more recent decades, I am convinced that at least Gilles Villeneuve and Michael Schumacher would have been greats in any era.
My top 10:
1 Gilles Villeneuve
2 Hunt
3 Senna
4 Raikonnen
5 Vettel
6 Hamilton
7 Piquet sr
8 Schumacher (Benetton time)
9 J.P. Montoya
10 Verstappen
Just to remind you there is meant to be a reasoned narative to justify your choices. I would be really interested to know how you arrived at Hunt in preference to Lauda, Montoya v Hakkinen and Verstappen against almost anyone, but let's say Tom Kristensen.Quote:
Originally Posted by lars75