Some more information relevant to the topic:
Analysis: movable floor the new buzzword
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Some more information relevant to the topic:
Analysis: movable floor the new buzzword
If you want to believe that Briattore was "convinced enough" as you say, than you might go ahead, but there have been reports that it was McLaren because they could not accommodate the mass-dampers to their car, while Ferrari did it and were already beating Renault fair and square at that moment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Heidfeldrulez
BTW I fail to see what has the size of the Bridgestones to do with the mass-dampers, maybe you can enlighten us with some sound technical explanations to prove your high knowledge of facts. Until than I believe what I think it's right and will try to ignore your bullying comments.
Mistake or not this forum and the discussions around here shouldn't be about one's nationality, even if misspelled, and I count on you to keep it that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by pino
We count on members to keep a thread on topic when they have already been requested to :cool:
No actually say they saw an extremly complex floor mounting structure while the car was sitting exposed in the pits.Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
BINGO!!! (exactly my senstiments, read the 3rd post of this thread)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian McC
Going a little overboard aren't we. What happened to freedom of speech, or would you rather give that up?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mihaici
yea, its obviously beacause you dont have the slightest clue of how mass-dampers work :DQuote:
Originally Posted by ioan
but go ahead and educate:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/55982
and once you're done with that, i can give you another article that offers a rather deep, yet easy to understand technical insight as to how mass-dampers work
Don't know mate, i'm not interested on that subject.Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveA
No, man, I like the freedom of speech, but I don't understand the simple association of words ("rabid romanian"); to me it sounds like an insult; I don't think that if Ioan would've been italian or german the guy would've said "rabid italian".Quote:
Originally Posted by jjanicke
I know that fact, but I was under the impression that the language that we all use on this forum is the english language. What would happen if everyone would start to use imported words from their respective language? This is an international forum, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by janneppi
Right. Sorry. Gone overboard again. I just don't stand for unnecesary insults.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1
You've got some bizarre ways to do requests, and to the wrong people. Whatever.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1
Back to the topic.
I post on several other forums. This is the only one where I won't use my real name.
Think about that for a minute.
what´s that supposed to mean?Quote:
Originally Posted by Easy Drifter
Then why to bother to post here at all...Quote:
Originally Posted by Easy Drifter
I mean that I have never seen a forum with so many personal insults and nasty comments. Another forum has a young lad on it (mid teens) who is quite plainly dyslexic. He is quite bright and has great posts. Nobody ever says anything about his problems with spelling and fouled up words.
I am afraid here he would be put down constantly.
There is another poster on here that is on another forum I am on. Here he gets insulted and I have even seen him called names. His opinions on the other forum are the same as here but he is disagreed with and that is it.
The reponse I received is about what I expected. I have been in this sport for many years and have worked for F1 ,Indy car and Can Am teams as well as been a senior race official. I also drove professionally.
I will continue to read some of the posts here but you won't see me posting much.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mihaici
I could be completely wrong but I doubt that the "rabid Romanian Ferrari" comment has anything to do with a diseased Romanian and everything to do with a fanatical F1 and Ferrari fan. Maybe it's just me and I'm simply desensitized to this nonsense. Let’s move on.
It also looks like BMW Sauber is using a similar contraption to Ferrari's floor board mounting structure. It passes the current FIA testing regulation, just as the flexing Ferrari wing did last year. So either the FIA further clarify the regulation, or adjust the testing proceedures in this area or we'll see alot more teams with the moveable aero floor pannels, very much like the highly contested 2006 Ferrari 2 material wheel rim that is now seen on many 2007 F1 cars.
So what FB had to say is:Quote:
Originally Posted by Heidfeldrulez
<<"Now we understand why they banned the mass damper all of a sudden mid-season," Briatore told fans at the Bologna motor show. "This is because it wouldn't work with Ferrari's Bridgestone tyres, as their fronts are too wide.">>
Which is pure bullsh!t from a technical POV.
Could you please give us a link to that "rather deep, yet easy to understand technical" article. I'm really curious to see what has the width of the Bridgestone tires to do with how the mass-dampers work.
I did now "Drift" on outta here !!Quote:
Originally Posted by Easy Drifter
I think you've described the issue perfectly jjanicke. Dennis himself basically said the same thing. We can probably expect the FIA to quitely clarify the regulation in the coming weeks.Quote:
Originally Posted by jjanicke
ouch. a bit OTT dont you think? i would question the mentalities of people on this site on occasion. this is supposed to be a friendly forum where opinions are given on issues in F1, whether you agree or disagree with what people are saying etc etc. there does appear to be a lot of tension when it comes to race though for some reason. people appear to get a little heated under the collar and seem to have to resort to personal insults for no obvious reason. there is a difference between being outspoken in your views and being plain rude. i have yet to experience any real hostility here but i have noticed that in particular, its the people who dont speak english as a first language (im assuming based on their country) get most of the stick. however, im going to move on and give my opinion on the topic at hand now, which is whether ferrari are using illegal moving aerodynamic devices. no, i dont think they are, based on the fact i have yet to see any report of this where concrete facts are used. until they do, i believe they are legal. same as every other car.Quote:
Originally Posted by fousto
Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
LOL, just confirming again, you dont have any clue whatsoever what mass-dampers are, let alone how they work :D
and now you're calling Renault people technicaly untrained? you think they dont know what they are talking about? Seriously, could you possibly BE more ridiculous ? :D Just for the record, Renault's mass-dampers involved a 12kg weight moving up and down ballacing, when they fitted Bridgestone tires for the first time, the device would stuck, simply there wasnt enough room for it to work due to the different size of the new tires. then they realized why Ferrari was so keen on pushing on the ban. If you speak German and want to educte (and obviously, you do seriously need to) log on to f1total.com and search for "Massendämpfers" (sometimes also refered to as "Dämpfer-Urteil" in the German media). Alternatively, think before you talk rubbish (always a good idea)
It's very complicated and has to do with adolescent adoration for drivers and teams rather than an appreciation for the competition itself. There is probably an equal dose of those that attack people that blindly support the character of drivers and teams despite evidence to the contrary. And then there are those that are devoid of the above afflictions and are quite interesting to listen to.Quote:
Originally Posted by ottostreet
Anybody with any objectivity knows that the competitive environment was shamelessly manipulated by the series last year, whether or not Ferrari is benefiting in '07 has yet to be proven.
Just a quick question. Why were Renault fitting Bridgestone tyres to a car fitted with a device that had been banned for the best part of half a season?
Of course, the problem is, that you just made a statement that could be considered subjective. ;) :DQuote:
Originally Posted by tintop
Not that it has anything to do with this thread, but whats the connection between the atmosphere of the forum and you not using your real name? Are you ashamed to be a member? Because then there really is no reason to hang around in here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Easy Drifter
Besides, its a cool forum, most of the times you can avoid the braindead driver bashing and discuss some real issues. Also, in case you havnt noticed, people in different forums tend to use nicknames and fun-names instead of their real namesm but just for the record, Im Martin Müller, enjoy playing the RC-boats, like Gerrman cars, Italian food and British humour :D nice to meet you :P
really dunno, ask them. :D the device was banned from races and not tests, during the winter teams really try all sort of things as you would imagine (basicaly thats the reason why they call it testing in the first place)Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkmoon
Not by anyone with any integrity or objectivity, it's a statement of fact really. Whether or not the manipulation disproportionately affected any certain team is, of course, conjecture. :D :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Hawkmoon
Quote:
Originally Posted by ottostreet
You are right. As of today the Ferrari and BMW Sauber floors are legal, to the way the rule is tested.
The question isn't whether or not they are legal, but whether or not they will remain legal, as the FIA will surely issue public or private opinions and perhaps new rules on the matter.
Good question. Perhaps they just wanted to see for themselves why Bridgestone shod cars didn't benefit from it as much as they did.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkmoon
If it was Flavio that complained it was only because Ferrari's floor was moving more than his drivers!!!!
Let's see, Ferrari are cheaters and his drivers are "rubbish." Anyone else Flav wants to insult or accuse?
If it was RD complaining about the floor, you have to realize that sometime in the season he will complain about Ferrari at least once. He's just starting early this year. Maybe Ron should concentrate less on building enormous buildings, team haircuts, and prohibition of alcohol and just go build a winning car! (Then again, maybe he will convert Paragon into the world's largest dollar barber shop???)
the have rules to protest - put up your money or STFU simple as that
Still don´t comprehend it. AFAIK the mass damper system was fitted in the Renault´s nose cone. So how could the tyre size interfere with that system to make it stuck?Quote:
Originally Posted by Heidfeldrulez
I can see it now! Ferrarri havnt got a car at all, they are racing a jet plane and they have developed a hologram to make it look like a car but the hologram floor is unstable but hey that isnt their fault now is it. Give them time and they will have us all hipmotized to believing they are the underdogs and deserve to win no matter what!
Yep, I have no idea, that's why I asked you to give us the link to that "rather deep, yet easy to understand technical" article you talked about before.Quote:
Originally Posted by Heidfeldrulez
As others pointed out it's bizarre that Renault was testing the Bridgestone tires with the mass-dampers on the car as those are banned, and will not come back, which means that it was only lost track time and money, not to mention that the tires they got to test weren't the same tires Ferrari were using last season but the ones they are using now.
Also someone pointed out that the mass dampers were fitted into the nose cone of the car so it is difficult, even for me, to understand how the width of the tires would make that 12kg mass, as you say, to get stuck in the nose cone, unless they forgot to lubricate it since August last year!
Ron is awful bitter man. He single-handedly made me to loathe McLaren and severay years back I was crazy fan of them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuned_mass_damperQuote:
Originally Posted by ioan
Perhaps they wanted to compare their old device to the new one, learn a thing or two about how they differ and move on with the new device's development in a direction this comparative analysis would draw.Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
i belive its the compound that is different from last yearQuote:
Originally Posted by ioan
The mass-dampers are a part of the front-suspension, they are strongly connected. The tire windth does indeed effect the angle and the extent of how the wishbone enters the chasse, so that might give you an idea of what the problem was. Also it reveals how fine-tuned the device was and how little room teams have to deal with (in any part of the car) to instal devices like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
Not true: the mass damper system is working independent from the front (or rear) suspension.Quote:
Originally Posted by Heidfeldrulez
Check here: http://www.formula1.com/insight/tech...6/758/291.html
Or like Wikipedia says:
mass dampers stabilize against violent motion caused by harmonic vibration. The presence of a mass damper allows th inertia of a great mass to be balanced by a comparatively lightweight structural component, placed in such a way that the block moves in one direction as the structure moves in the other, thus damping the structure's oscillation.
I was not aware of that, and as it was pointed out it isn't the case:Quote:
Originally Posted by Heidfeldrulez
This is why I asked you about the link, thinking that maybe there is some very subtle technical aspect that I was missing.Quote:
Originally Posted by W8&C
In fact making the device work has nothing to do with the space available in the car, there is enough as demonstrated by Renault and Ferrari do have a larger nose cone than Renault.Quote:
Originally Posted by Heidfeldrulez
What they needed to do was to calculate the weight of the mass they used as well as the springs they had to use to attach the mass to the car's body.
In fact what might have happened is that the Bridgestone tire's walls, being different from the Michelins, did already stabilize the car and thus the mass damper system was not worth to be developed and used.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
LOL He is a car engineer now. Those Renault guys are idiots. Go tell them how to make a car! LOL
Man will try to tell you that the grass is blue and sky green! LOL
Some here should just be ignored.
Back to movable (only flexible in my opinion, but than I'm no journo!) floors!
The FIA did answer McLaren's questioning of a certain possibility to mount their floor on a device composed of pivots and springs:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/57650