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I see the 'non-oval' driver talk has arisen, perhaps fairly given some of the recent people who've been taking part. But it's also slightly wide of the mark to suggest Kat Legge, as a talented as she is, is near the skills of oval rookies such as Mansell, Montoya or Zanardi.
That said she'll do just fine if she gets a sem-decent team place secured, she certainly won't be some sort of mobile chicance that some are suggesting.
Ok, so we're back at some sort of "rookie" orientation situation rather than demanding several seasons in a lower formula, which was your original suggestion. Practice and qualifying ought to be enough to highlight any shortcomings. If there are concerns after those, simply disallow them from running. You make ovals sound like some black art that only the chosen few can master, but they're just another style of racing and any decently competent driver ought to be able to adjust. Let's flip your argument on its head and look at Michael Waltrip doing endurance GT races. Your logic would dictate we demand he compete in a season of lower level GT competition before being allowed to run 24 hour events like Spa and LeMans, as non-floodlit night racing in endurance GT cars is every bit as challenging as oval racing if it isn't your staple diet.Quote:
Originally Posted by call_me_andrew
I have to agree with you beachgirl. I'd also add that DP seems to be doing better on ovals -- especially Indy -- than on road courses. And, in NASCAR, she mainly races ovals.
Back to the original post on this thread, tho, I also like Kat -- and would love to see her back on this side of the pond. Unfortunately, the supply of good drivers exceeds that of sponsorship funding -- at least for the time being. Hopefully, things will turn around soon, though.
I didn't demand several seasons, I just demanded a certain number of races.Quote:
Originally Posted by hornet
When you set up your own racing series, you can demand anything you like.Quote:
Originally Posted by call_me_andrew
This is what you said...Quote:
Originally Posted by call_me_andrew
Assuming a season of ~20 races, how exactly is a driver supposed to get to your desired level without racing in multiple, or the equivalent of multiple seasons? Are you suggesting they could make 100 oval starts in the course of one season, or am I missing something?Quote:
Originally Posted by call_me_andrew
You do it by racing in multiple series in the same year.
EDIT: It's nothing Paul Tracey, Juan Montoya, Danica Patrick, Jim Clark, Mario Andretti, A.J. Foyt, Mark Martin, Kyle Busch, Sam Hornish, Jacky Ickx, Helio Castroneves, Carl Edwards, and dozens of other drivers haven't done.
Do not put Danica Patrick in that group. Until her management team decided to go after the big bucks, she drove nothing but Indycar, with three individual unsuccessful forays into endurance racing. She did 2 Rolex 24s, and not well, and one ALMS race where she wasn't allowed more than one stint because she was too slow. Check it in the records. To include her with the likes of Juan Pablo Montoya, AJ Foyt, Jim Clark, and the others just shows your total lack of respect for, and knowledge of, racing history.Quote:
Originally Posted by call_me_andrew
I'm confused. Wasn't the # of starts supposed to be oval starts? If so, the only people that could race that often would be dirt/sprint/midget guys, and as everyone has said, the front engined car is nothing like a rear engined car. Is this a closet USAC fan pushing their agenda?Quote:
Originally Posted by call_me_andrew
You're getting silly now. Your examples may well have raced in more than one series in a given year, but if you can show me anyone who has made 100 starts (your upper limit) in a single season, I'd be amazed. That also have to be 100 relevant starts as well. Even something like 50 would be pushing it. I know there are guys racing in Trucks, Nationwide and Cup on a regular basis, but that wouldn't necessarily help with regard OWR on ovals, as it's such a different discipline, so you're looking at huge amounts of seat time in FIL. Factor in things like seat availability, sponsor demands and calendar clashes and there's no way on Earth your demands are ever going to be met.Quote:
Originally Posted by call_me_andrew
If anything, Danica actually disproves his theory, as she went to Nationwide with plenty of oval experience, but aside from one decent finish, has been pretty poor. Ditto the likes of Sam Hornish, come to think of it. Comes back to requiring relevant oval experience, rather than just any old oval experience. A quick look at IRL history shows that oval experience in and of itself isn't enough for OWR success.Quote:
Originally Posted by beachgirl
There are also the issues of talent and equipment. Danica is limited by the first and Sam was limited by the second.Quote:
Originally Posted by hornet
The problem with all of these "requirements" is past results in one series or type of racing may not translate to another series or type of racing. There are way too many examples of failures with lots of "experience" and successes with limited experience. Talent can often trump experience. But until the driver actually straps in and gives a series a try, there is no sure fire way to predict how they will do.
Every racing series has some licensing procedures and requirements that have evolved over many years to try to weed out drivers who aren't qualified. It isn't a perfect process, but all series do their best.
A front engine car has four tires and a steering wheel.
A rear engine car has four tires and a steering wheel.
It's not really a big transition.
Do you say these things just to get a rise out of people, or are you really this dense? If you don't know how much of a transition it really is, you have obviously never raced either one, or even driven both on the street. Therefore, your premise is totally off the wall and invalid.Quote:
Originally Posted by call_me_andrew
This is the DUMBEST thing you have said yet......Quote:
Originally Posted by call_me_andrew
Your analogy is just like saying the following
Cessna 172 has wings, fuselage, and a flight controls.
Lockheed F-22 has wings fuselage and flight controls.
It's not really a big transition for the 172 pilot to fly the F-22
Some of the greatest Sprint Car drivers have a terrible time trying to adjust their driving styles to work in a rear engine Indycar. Steve Kinser who is one of if not the Greatest sprint car driver tried Indy twice wrecked in practice in 1981 and wrecked during the race in 1997. The best sprint car driver the was able to transition from one to the other was Rich Vogler and even he had a hard time with rear engine cars.
That crack must be real good in Quakertown.....
You've rather undermined your own argument there. You can't claim on the one hand that completely differing machinery isn't a big transition whilst on the other claiming a completely different track type is.Quote:
Originally Posted by call_me_andrew
I notice that on the blog it is Katherine, and not a shortened version of her first name.
Yeah, Steve Kinser won a lot of sprint car races. He beat the likes of Guy Nooneeverheardof, Slowpoke McGhee, and Obscure Driver Jr. Would you like to see the world's tallest midget?
And yes, track is way more important than machinery.
The hole just gets deeper and deeper.Quote:
Originally Posted by call_me_andrew
Gary
I think the link in the signature says it all "arguing around in circles"Quote:
Originally Posted by call_me_andrew
Sooooo. If Jay Springsteen dominated dirt ovals like DuQuoin on 2 wheels, he should have been able to jump in a stock car on the exact same track and run competitively? Or Scott Russell, "Mr Daytona" on a motorcycle, should have been able to do the same in a sports car in the Rolex running the exact same track?
If you claim to be so knowledgeable about driver qualifications, you should know that Kinser was/is able to beat some of the best drivers of his era - many of whom were successful at Indy. He drives a car with four wheels and a steering wheel.
Keep digging that hole.
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools talk because they have to say something."
- Plato
I am going to go out on a limb and predict that Kat will race at Indy in the 500 with Sarah Fisher Racing. Sarah's 2nd car is still TBA. Sarah and Kat were together at a cancer benefit several nights ago. Kat has been tweeting and hinting on her website that something is brewing. I think this is it. You heard it here first!
BZ
Besides having breasts, what has Kat Legge ever done to to elicit a current Indy Car ride (besides win a couple of Atlantics races against the worst field of drivers in the history of mankind) and survive a horrible crash in Champ Car? Plus what has she done in the past few years in racing?
She has no business at Indy. She'd never qualify anyway this year.
If Sarah puts a 2nd car on the track, it will be with someone who has a chance of qualifying. Someone with experience. Someone who knows oval racing and Indy.
She tried the "rookie" thing with her 2nd car last year and it was a huge failure. Doubt she goes that way again.
She seems fairly adament that she's going to be racing an Indycar soon. She's apparently having merchandise made...
It seems to be somewhat of a optimistic front she's putting up however. I thought that if we didn't see her in St. Pete, we wouldn't see her until Indy and if we don't see her at Indy, I very much doubt we'll see her all year.
With Scotty and Andrew around, I am glad I stopped in on this thread.
God help us, with you two ding dongs making the rules, we would have nothing.
Katherine Legge isn't the second coming of Ayrton Senna, Emmo Fittapaldi or Rick Mears. She did however win in Atlantics, and contrary to what people want to say, she did race some decent competition and with simliar equipment ran with with them. She raced hard, and passed people for leads, not using pit strategy to get finishes like Danica often has done.
So she gets to Champ Car and has so so machinery, survives a big wreck (she was running 5th at the time, not marking time on a road course) and eventually gets shuffled out of the mix. She has done little in DTM but with an old car and limited budget, that is the way things usually go.
So does she deserve a shot at Indy? Damn right she does, just as much as anyone else. At least I know who Kat is. Cant say I know who Charlie Kimball really is until this year. All this talk Andrew wants of having get schooled is the same neanderthal thinking that ran the sport into the ground. News flash Andy, Indy is unique, it has quirks and it is tough to WIN at but it isn't tough to learn to compete there. A competent driver in decent equipment is going to go fast and if the engineers are able to get the information they need, qualify at Indy. She might find racing there tough, but many great Sprint car guys went home beaten up bad by Indy also. The modern Indy car isn't any different on a lot of levels than what she was used to in CCWS. Less power, a little more balance. She will be fine if she gets a decent ride. If she can find the people who want to back her, and team willing to take her on, all power to her.
I am a Kat Legge fan, but I also know I am fan of her as a person first. I don't know how good a race driver she can be. I just know she wants to do it the right way, and it isn't like we don't know who she is. She is more a name than some of the no hopers that keep showing up. Hell, I bet she doesn't tear up as much machinery as half of Jimmy Vasser's outfit. Viso and company are hell on race cars....but they will be there.
Plenty of ex-F1 drivers have been decidedly average in DTM with much newer machinery, so I'd agree it's not a fair barometer. She's won in the accepted feeder series then hit a financial impasse. She's hardly the first driver to have that happen. We should be giving her credit for staying motivated, not slagging her off before she's even turned a wheel in anger.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa
There are some that will attack her only because she raced in Champ Car with a 2nd and 3rd rate operation and didn't always get results. Well, at Indy, on Sarah Fisher's team if she goes there I am not looking for great results, but I know it wont be Kat's fault for lacking talent. She has enough speed in her in my opinion to make the field.Quote:
Originally Posted by hornet
Oh well, no rookie orientation for Kat. Maybe next year.
BZ
Kat announced a deal with Sam Schmidt Motorsports yesterday. Looks like a partial deal for 2011 and a full program for 2012. Way to go Kat! No ride for Indy this year but we may still see her on a road or street course before the season is over.
http://indycargarage.blogspot.com/20...h-indycar.html
BZ
First off yes, I'd like to see her in Indycar. She has a lot of fans and is a decent racer. No world beater, but decent. The more the merrier I say. But to be honest I think part of the reason so many of the CC fans got behind her was for one simple reason; she was not Danica. Or put another way, she was their Danica. Would she had gotten as much fan support if she would have decent driver named Karl instead of Kat? Probably not, and that's OK. You work with what you've got. Just keep things in perspective & be honest about it.
PS. As advised I've updated my "Ignore" list (this time for good) so if I don't respond it's because I'm trying to keep my blood pressure down, not because I don't have a witty reply for you. : )
Kat was Champ Car's Danica in the sense she was the first full time Female driver at the time Danica was coming to be the name. That said, Kat Legge won two races in Atlantic against a deeper field than Danica didn't win against in Atlantics. So just based on record in the "minors" one could point out Danica didn't deserve her ride as much as Katharine would deserve hers.Quote:
Originally Posted by downtowndeco
That all said, we all know why women racing drivers with less in the way of record get rides. It is the novelty and marketing angles being played. Racing is a business. If it was based on qualifications, half the field at Indy wouldn't be there on raw skill.
It aint fair, but it is racing. So all things being equal in this wacky world, most of us who watched Katharine Legge come up do think she has a place in Indycar racing. She is good people, and she isn't going to embarass herself. This isn't Milka Duno....