Ever considered stand-up? :rotflmao:Quote:
Originally Posted by longisland
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Ever considered stand-up? :rotflmao:Quote:
Originally Posted by longisland
I don't get the love Heidfeld gets around here. He's average. Always has been. Always will be. Senna is even worse. The marketing guys will be hoping people won't see past the Lotus-Renault-Senna name to see the P16 he's likely to get each race.
If Kubica is indeed out for the year then Renault need a number 1 and the only number 1 that's been mentioned so far is Raikkonen. Renault would be mad not to enquire as to his availability. Stick him in the car for 1 year with a 1 year option and if it works out and Kubica comes back then Renault end up with one of the best driver lineups on the grid for 2012.
On the radio this morning they said it would likely be the full season. I think that's probably realistic, given the length of his recovery just back to normal fitness, never mind the level that F1 drivers require. If he gets back in the car towards the end of the year will of course depend on his recovery, but also on the performance of his replacement, if he's doing well then the team may wish to stick with him for the remainder of the year rather than have the disruption of switching drivers mid-season.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave B
F1 is a cruel sport however, and there's no guarantee Kubica will be on the grid in 2012 even if fully recovered.
Options in order of preference:
Hulkenberg
Klein
Senna
A quick point: even though I consider Kubica to be a better driver than Heidfeld, the fact is that Nick managed to beat him in 2007 and 2009. So I'm guessing that Heidfeld is kind of underrated. Not that he is WDC material though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkmoon
Senna is the official reserve driver, Grosjean deserves another chance too, but he's got a GP2 drive fro now anyway.
I think Senna will fill in for the testing and the 1st few races, if he equals or betters Petrov then he surely is doing enough.
If Robert is to miss the whole year then maybe they will look to find a more experienced driver, but there aren't many out there at the moment. Liuzzi maybe, but he's not set the world on fire really. Hulk has only as much experience as Senna, although he may be a better prospect.
Hopefully Robert will be able to reclaim his seat before the end of the year too.
I can't see Kimi back, he's got a Citroen in WRC and seems happy to stay there, too late to make the jump back for this year (beginning at least)
Heidfield is the only other viable available driver out there really, but Renault have 2 reserve/testers with a years F1 experience so it would be rough on them to be overlooked when a genuine opportunity came up
That's true, but that's more to fill in should the main driver be injured / ill very shortly before a race, and they can fill in on a race by race basis. In this case it's slightly different, with over a month to go until the start of the season and them potentially looking for someone to drive in all the races.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robinho
Kimi's also used his own money for the WRC so I doubt he'd throw that away to drive in F1
The car looks fast this year, therefore they should have a fast driver too and I don't know any other faster than Kimi Raikkonen.
They should ask him .. maybe he can help them?
jas, you need to correct your signature - Kimi has already won his first rally:
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/09/19/s...is-first-rall/
You are waiting for a WRC win, I guess :)
In my view Heidfeld is clearly the best option among available and interested (Kimi is not interested) drivers and I am surprised, how some can be downplaying him. Actually he is the only driver, who even remotely could step into the big boots left by Kubica and lead the team, which seems close to the top. Nick always manages to collect a good amount of points and this is what the team badly needs. And generally Heidfeld is a really adequate lead driver for an up-and-coming team like for instance Button was for BAR. Or Nick himself was in 2006-07 for BMW.
Others seem already a singificant step backwards. Alas I see Bahar, Lopez and Bouiller giving Bruno Senna the shot. Tying "JPS Lotus" with the name Senna would be too tempting. It can be argued that Bruno has probably more potential than it was evident during HRT days, but at best I'd expect him to turn out to be marginally better than Petrov, which isn't saying much. I actually believe Grosjean has more potential than Senna, but I have to admit he is a risky bet too.
I see more names having been thrown in here. Klien? De la Rosa? Liuzzi? Fisichella? Davidson? None is as good as Heidfeld, but if the situation is tight, they could be considered. Mainly for their experience (which the team seems to be seriously lacking at the moment) and also as a benchmark for Petrov.
Hülkenberg is a gamble too, he got a serious beating by Barrichello last year. But I think he could be more ready to produce results from the get-go than any of Renault's reserves. Still, I don't see him getting released from Force India's contract. And if people here are already talking about contracted drivers, Glock sounds like a decent option to me (Virgin's contract shouldn't be that expensive to buy out either) for damage limitation.
What seems important in all of this, is that the replacement driver seems to be needed for at least the whole season. If it was for a couple of races, you may expect someone like Heidfeld not to be too interested to be a seat-warmer for Kubica without having the opportunity to fully settle in and have a season-long impact. And the team could afford a rookie to flop (two bad races from the team don't ruin the whole season). But an experienced driver seems now vital in the long-run. Because if a rookie flops, it will be even more complicated to make a mid-season change due to in-season testing ban.
Exactly my thoughts, it's fine having a reserve driver who can fill in for 1 or 2 races. But that we're talking about a full F1 season here, which is a different matter entirely!Quote:
Originally Posted by jens
Absolutely agreed.Quote:
Originally Posted by jens
Completely agree except for one point. I see three drivers already in F1 that could be tempted by the Renault drive, Sutil, Hulkenberg and Kobayashi. All three are IMO good enough for the drive though not yet as good as Kubica. All three drive for teams that would be happy to let them go if they were reimbursed sufficiently for the trouble.Quote:
Originally Posted by jens
And while I agree that Heidfeld is by far the best of the unsigned drivers floating around, Liuzzi is out there too.
Otherwise I think yours is a very accurate summary of the situation Renault finds itself in. They've been lucky to have superb lead drivers so far in Alonso and Kubica. Kubica's absence is going to be extremely painful for the team.
I would take Heidfeld over Liuzzi everyday of the week. They need a regular point scorer as Petrov will be out the top 10 more often than in it. Liuzzi isn't consistent enough to score regularly either.Glock is quite a good shout aswell tho if they could get him.
the problem with Heidfeld is tht he is at the tail-end of his career and is very much a known quantity.
He won't win you a race, he won't really podium, He won't be shining in Qualy, but he will bring the car home in a solid 6-12 position.
To me, that is simply not good enough for that Renault seat. Heidefeld is a competent F1 professional, but I'd rather have a younger hungrier guy in there with some racing chops and a winners mentality. I'd even take DiGrassi over Heidfeld TBH
yep
There simply isn't a good replacement for Kubica if you discount Kimi who has retired. All the men mentioned here are just good F1 drivers, not exceptional like Kubica.
Who you callin' an "old-timer" ?!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave B
Damn whipper-snapper wordies think they know it all .
At least we've got some damn heritage on our side , with a real Villeneuve , rather than "I'll use my middle name so I look like my uncle on the timing screens" Bruno .
Bruno has seen the trophy . Jacques owns one .
And , if you haven't noticed , he's raised many eyebrows in many series since he left .
He'd likely go for a performance-based pay cheque , and bring in possible massive sponsorship , given he had backers to buy in not so long ago .
He'd be the biggest news buzz going and put the team top centre along with all the other WDCs on the grid .
It's not so far fetched , Davy .
I look forward to the good ol' days of the future , with Mikey and JV side by side .
Damn , that'd be nice .
What about Kovalainen?
After the Lotus-Renault Combination would it be possible that he move?
And Lotus should use Grosjean or an other driver
if i was a renault reserve driver and got overlooked for someone outside of the team, id quit in protest and disgust.
Give Senna a chance.
The #1 choice would have been kimi, but I doubt he'll come after his issues with Renault last year. And after that it would be Heidfeld since it now looks like Kubica will be gone for an year or so. I doubt any of the young guns will be consistent, however they do deserve a chance, perhaps give them a shot for a few races and see how it goes, and then bring in Heidfeld, but I'd rather have him now for testing and giving Renault some proper feedback, which they probably need a lot of. Hopefully Kubica will have a quick recovery!
I think they'll at least start the season with Senna, but a Senna/Petrov lineup seems really weak for a top(ish) team, I wouldn't be surprised if one was replaced after a few races. I think Heidfeld is the most likely replacement as the experienced driver to a comparatively inexperienced teammate.
renault = solid midfield team. Kubica only made it seem "topish" cus he is exceptional. Senna deserves a shot you never know he might surprise! After all F1 is 90% car 10% driver... If some no name like Petrov got a full year and did mediocre at best then why does Senna not deserve a shot? You cant judge him for last year in that hideous HRT... That car would make Ayrton himself look bad even...
Renault might think a known quantity is what they want in a substitute.Quote:
Originally Posted by truefan72
The stats don't really bear out your assertion that Heidfeld lacks podium quality. In their 3-and-a-bit years as team-mates at BMW/Sauber, Kubica scored 9 podiums and Heidfeld 8.
Edit: actually I think a lot depends on how good the Renault is this year. If the car is a winner, then perhaps Heidfeld's not the ideal choice; but if Kevincal's right that it's a mere midfielder, then he is. He beat Kubica in the years when the BMWs were uncompetetive, but lost out in '08 when it was a winning car.
F1 is 100% driver 0 % percent car since the car won't move without a driver... But seriously, maybe Senna deserves a shot, Hispania were so awful last year that it's pretty hard to make conclusions based on that even if some of his teammates were quicker than him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevincal
Something to consider - courtesy of James Allen;
Bruno Senna is reserve driver and if he has brought money to the team, as has been suggested, that may come with a clause which gives him the drive da facto. If not, Renault may look to someone like Nico Hulkenberg, who will have a clause in his Force India reserve driver contract releasing him if a race seat comes up elsewhere. That is standard. It may be Nick Heidfeld who gets yet another chance.
And how would you pay your bills and feed your family Laddie?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuartf12007
Still living at home are we? :confused: :s mokin:
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...yHJF8H6F2Pg1pQ
Have you seen how fast a driver goes without a car?? ;) ;) ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by DexDexter
WT
Sure, I'm waiting for his first win in WRC Rally - but thanks anyway :)Quote:
Originally Posted by F1boat
So it's 100% driver and 100% car then. :D Because 50% - 50% would just be ridiculous. How fast can half a car, and half a driver go? :eek:
So it's 100% driver and 100% car then. :D Because 50% - 50% would just be ridiculous. How fast can half a car, and half a driver go? :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by Wasted Talent
I'm surprised so many people want to see Senna race.
Rather see one of the ol' timers take the steering wheel.
I don't agree. Renault now needs an experienced driver now. The russian driver they have now is going to be useless. Even he was relying on Kubiza in developping the car and now he is in big trouble.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagwan
I dare saying Trulli should be going back to Renault. He knows the team already, he has tons of experience and given the circumstances he still can show some speed. And that's exactly what Renault needs.
Apparently, you haven't heard some well-documented news: Kubica did not help Petrov much, if at all, during the season, and Vitaly had to make do with his own talent and feedback to his engineers. If the cliche is true and you are only as good as your last race, then VP is doing remarkably well--he out-qualified Robert in Abu Dhabi. In the race, he ran in front, but the SC period "invited" the team to split their strategy. Petrov subsequently pitted and was put behind Kubica.Quote:
Originally Posted by mstillhere
I'm torn because it's the new talent that we'll one day refer to as ol' timers... but I'm with you, I'd rather see a vet back in the car, particularly JV.Quote:
Originally Posted by gloomyDAY
Jv has the best track record of all the available drivers - what is sooooo hard about this decision ?????
Maybe there are some people left at Renault who remember hearing the same argument in late 2004.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roamy
Here is more speculations:
I don't believe that Kimi will come back to F1 but you never know. There is again possibility for Kimi's management to make big money, so now we will know if Kimi really want to stay in rally as said...
The arguments regarding Villeneuve are quite funny, especially when they contain criticism directed at Heidfeld. When Jacques was last racing in F1, it was 2006 and his team-mate was no-one else than Nick. As we remember, Heidfeld was a bit better. The gap wasn't big, JV was having a solid season, but he still got beaten. We can add that in the meantime Villeneuve has never driven an F1 car, while Heidi has had lots of seasons under his belt and kept himself warm in F1 circles. Now tell me, according to which logic now 5 years later that inferior driver would suddenly turn out to be better out of the two, especially as the former has had zero practice at all? The only logic tells me that the gap has only enlarged.
Doesn't make much sense. Heidfeld usually runs quite close to car's potential. Let's say Kubica would finish 3rd in that car in a race, then Heidfeld could be around something like P4. Now compare that to the likes of Senna and Petrov, who would be around P7-P8 in case they didn't crash out. Di Grassi? Bah, he was outraced by Glock most of the season.Quote:
Originally Posted by truefan72
--
People want to see "new talent", but forget that Renault already has one such "new talent" - Petrov. How many of those underperforming inexperienced drivers do you need - the whole grid? And the only reason Senna is Renault's reserve and even has a shot at the race drive, is because of his name and the "connection to Lotus". Renault already has recent experience with a driver with a famous name of a multiple world champion (Piquet Jr).
Er... shouldn't the quicker team-mates get a chance before him then?Quote:
Originally Posted by DexDexter
Such arguments could be made about any driver. Maybe Baumgartner deserves a shot in a good team too. Okay, Bruni was quicker than him, but the car was too bad and he didn't get a proper chance.