yep, one of the millions of medical professional smokers who whinge about pubs closing left right and center :laugh:
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yep, one of the millions of medical professional smokers who whinge about pubs closing left right and center :laugh:
we have a similar problem in Germany... here a lot of it is "blamed" on immigrants :dozey:Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolton Midnight
From my experience a lot of the immigrant parents value education far more than the British parents.Quote:
Originally Posted by donKey jote
If you drink & smoke less than your doctor then you're doing okay. Brother in Law is a GP and he drinks a hell of a lot more than I do, but he doesn't smoke have to say.
"Only the cream..." :confused: "All and sundry." :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolton Midnight
Please define who, in your opinion, sits in each of your two groups.
Are you suggesting that only those from "a top public school" should be permitted to access a university education?
:up:Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1
Unfortunately no. The problem of hostile demonstrations also stems from a complacency of the hierarchy to go about business as usual with little regard as to how public funds are spent, or misused rather. It wasn’t that long ago that the ‘Eat The Banks’ campaign took order by the masses, so I’m sure some folks still have that in mind, aggravating the situation even more. Add in an unpopular war and negligent practices by corporations mining/drilling for resources - causing damage to the environments, and you’ll find that you have a perfect recipe for civil unrest.Quote:
Originally Posted by BDunnell
What a load of rubbish.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolton Midnight
Those who stand up for their rights have to be applauded not dissed by the so called society.
I can only pity those who think like you.
What are you going to do without students?
Who's going to research for new technologies? For new medication? Who's gonna give a spine to the society you are living in? Joe from the pub?!
Just for the info I believe that education should be free for all, not only available to the rich ones.
The lack of access to education will show in 10-15 years but then it will be too late.
Exactly!Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1
But I suppose Bolton Midnight knows little about 1968, and what it meant for everyone.
You sure do not need to go to the university to become a plumber, but maybe some want to be doctors or engineers, which you can't without getting higher level education.Quote:
Originally Posted by IronRooster92
Cheers to this! :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by schmenke
Completely agree!
:up:Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
... and to those who live... well.... not "live", but are surviving in third world countries. That is of course if their leaders and/or customs permit them to.
As it used to be those with 8 or more O Levels (so that would be at least 10 A* nowadays)Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1
3 good A levels in proper subjects
Doing vocational degrees that will lead to instant employment at a high salary - exactly like it used to be, before every kid seemed to think they had a god given right to waste time and money doing a worthless degree.
Not at all, I neither said that or implied it. Parental wealth should have no bearing on the subject - social mobility and all that - which the Coalition believes in unlike Labour.
Then how to you explain that you went to University?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolton Midnight
(can you say cognitive dissonance?)
Rubbish.Quote:
Originally Posted by skc
Your posts sounds like: If you are more intelligent than me than you better not expect me to pay for you to become even better and earn more than I do.
I know you will say I am wrong, but you're the one who put it black on white first of all.
People that smash up the Supreme Court and cenotaph deserve a good kicking and nothing else - bring back the SPG.Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
If they had attacked Obama/Putin's car they would have been shot at.
These students aren't the ones who will find a cure for cancer or unearth a better alternative to petrol FFS these are the ones watching day time tv and then drinking all night whilst moaning about how poor they are before they drive home in their DBC.
The system in the UK is that they charge for university but you don't pay it back until you're earning at least £21,000. If most degrees are 3 years long it means most students will at the very least be in £27,000 worth of debt. Most people that graduate won't start earning £21,000 for quite a while, if ever. So realistically the government isn't going to get back most of the money it gives out. But hey, it sorts things out for the moment, so who gives a damn?Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
The worst thing is, this is only in England. Nobody seems to be interested in why English students seem to get screwed over whilst the Scottish get it for free. :rolleyes:
It's the same everywhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by donKey jote
It is always the poor and the immigrant at fault never the stupid politician who sits on his hands 90% of his term and decides to increase taxes as it is a measure that gives them more money to play with.
Many would rightly argue that, in the past, being an engineer didn't require a degree. In many countries it doesn't, and a good technical training qualification that didn't come from a university is ranked very highly.Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
Your generalisation is quite appalling. 'Every kid'?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolton Midnight
So merely being academically gifted in subjects like history, a language or so on is insufficient? I detest the manner in which university is now viewed by many as a production line for industry, with learning for its own sake and that of pure knowledge now being viewed as an old-fashioned concept. But such is the way in which we are all expected to worship the private sector nowadays.Quote:
Originally Posted by skc
Who told you those were students?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolton Midnight
Every time there is a public manifestation like this, there will be extremist idiots who will take advantage in order to destroy some stuff without risking too much.
I do not believe that those who were there to ask for affordable access to Unis were the ones who were violent.
You are swallowing what the politicians and the mass media serve you without first filtering it.
No $hit, how do you know that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolton Midnight
You are again talking out of your rear and generalizing without intimate knowledge of the situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolton Midnight
Begs the question, why go to Uni if you have no chance of landing a job once qualified?Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew
Seems rather pointless well other than taking you off unemployment figures and allowing youths the chance to get drunk and laid for 3 years.
Not that cancer, given your views on smoking, worries you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolton Midnight
In the case of higher education, I would be very happy to pay more in tax in order to fund it properly.Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
They can argue whatever they want.Quote:
Originally Posted by BDunnell
Repairing something that has been designed by a real engineer does not make one an engineer.
Sadly nowadays everyone thinks they are an engineer after learning how to tighten a screw, I profoundly disagree.
An engineer is the guy who you give a well defined scope statement and he delivers a well researched and thought product/solution.
Me too, sadly the money will be certainly used to save another failing bank instead of securing the future of the society.Quote:
Originally Posted by BDunnell
:up: (and for the record I am an engineer working in the private sector)Quote:
Originally Posted by BDunnell
True.Quote:
Originally Posted by AAReagles
The only way for the third world countries to evolve is through education. Sadly the powers to be do not have the interest to give the poor masses the knowledge they need to improve their own lives.
We live in a sad world, hidden in our shells where money should bring happiness.
I agree absolutely with you, but it is true that such training does not have to be provided by a university. Not everyone in Germany who has the title Dipl.-Ing. has gained the qualification from a university, yet said title is very well thought of.Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
Do you believe that a degree guarantees you a job?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolton Midnight
I know, this is why I preferred France, where you can not be an engineer only because you have had a technical degree and than worked 5 years in an workshop, followed by a very basic examination (this is how it is done in Austria for Ing who want to become Dipl. Ing.).Quote:
Originally Posted by BDunnell
It is very difficult to learn in a workshop the theory that resides behind the design of technological products.
I know people who became 'engineers' in that way and believe me while I am convinced that they can repair almost everything, I would never ever use something they designed if my life depended on it.
One should not be called Diplom Ingenieur if they chose a screw's size using a table in a catalog instead of calculating the size of the screw after having determined the forces that will act on said screw and the coefficient of security needed based on the circumstances in which that part will be used.
But hey, this thread isn't about this, sorry for derailing it. :)
It is in part about this, though, and it is an interesting topic. In the UK, many people would attend technical college rather than university, and came away perfectly well-qualified in their chosen field. Nowadays, I would imagine that most would probably get the same education at a university, probably to no greater a level and of no greater a standard. You are quite right to say that the higher-end aspects of engineering are best taught at universities; however, the same doesn't apply across the board. There is, I would contend, no need for so many people to graduate with a qualification called a degree from an institution called a university.Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
I understand you point.Quote:
Originally Posted by BDunnell
I believe that it is wrong that the term engineers has been expanded to cover about every technical (and not only) degree that one can dream about. And this brought us to the point where the engineering degree is not specific at all anymore and I can hardly think about any other degree that has been treated like this.
It is like if the universities felt that the term engineer is very very appealing to those who aspire to have a somewhat technical degree.
I believe that the engineering degree should have stayed for those who are in it for innovation in technology, while those who like to implement what engineers develop should have stayed with the technician nomenclature (this is how it is being done in France and I always thought it was right, I might be wrong though :) ).
I have been teaching at a University in France for 5 years, and I had students from engineering schools and technical colleges, and I must say that there is a difference between the ways they want to learn, there is also a difference between the ways they assimilate information and there is a difference between the way we bring them the knowledge they want to have.
Worth mentioning that every year around 10% of the students graduating from the technical college decided to continue their studies in an engineering school, which I have found to be a good way for them to become engineers once they got the taste of it.
As for too many people having university degrees, my way of doing it would be to allow everyone who wants to follow the first year of a higher education establishment, those who can pass the examinations after the first year will go on the others will be kindly asked to try something else for their future (unless they have had special circumstances occurring during first year).
those who are talented in the field of their choice they can go ahead and get the knowledge that will empower them in their professional life.
I would just add that no one should complain regarding the money needed for higher education because let's not forget that everyone pays taxes for a lifetime.
Well perhaps we should be glad that we don't have a ridiculously over-reactive government like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolton Midnight
Just for the record I know someone who has just graduated with an MA in Media and Film and has gone into a good job with a production company.
I also know students studying for Physics who do nothing all day and get stoned every night. Generalise that.
It should do, are there many unemployed dentists, doctors, opticians, architects, nurses, solicitors etc?Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education...nt-grants.html
Seems the NUS wanted to clobber the poorest students and the lecturers, they'll fit right in with Labour then.
No point talking about Engineers, rentamob aren't engineering students, just look at them.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...nto-death.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education...-Cenotaph.html
see not an engineer, they'd know better than to defile the cenotaph, if a football fan had done this the nation would be baying for them to be locked up for years.
Exception that proves the ruleQuote:
Originally Posted by AndySpeed
We have enough media students now
Please see Telegraph links re students damaging our flag, urinating on Churchill's statue and the defiling the cenotaph. Apology accepted.Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
I don't but feel free to try it, 1000 years in the Gulag would solve these students finance worries.
Have you been a student in the UK then and graduated and paid UK taxes?
What apologies are you dreaming about?!Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolton Midnight
I will never apologize to one who takes the mass media for true without using his own discerning aptitudes and talks gibberish and generalizes extreme views.
What do you know about gulags? Why do you talk about stuff you do not understand?
Do I need to graduate and pay taxes in the UK to tell you that you are posting discriminative rubbish?! :rolleyes:
yep, the physics students I knew were also typical students ;) :erm: :laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by AndySpeed
:bandit:
I don't understand the argument that the increase in fees is going to put the poor students off from going to university? How exactly? There are still no upfront costs. Student loans aren't only just given out to the rich.
As a recent graduate I don't have an issue with having to pay back my student debts. I know that I will only have to pay them back when I'm earning enough to afford it.
I also don't have an issue that people didn't have to pay in the past. The current system is unsustainable. We can't afford to pay for 50% of 18 year old to go to university.
My biggest grievance is that the highest earners pay less for university in the long-run. This is because they pay the loan off faster. This means it gathers less interest. The loan should be interest free.
No I figured you'd not apologise despite posting complete pish.Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
If you were paying for these tossers to dick about doing worthless degrees then maybe you'd not be so keen on the idea.
Read this
http://www.factsonfees.com/
perish the thought you might actually learn something about what is being discussed here.