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What a pathetic team Red Bull is with their love for that prick, Vettel.
I sincerely hope Webber wins the title this year, he deserves it for having to put up with being treated like sh!t by Red Bull.
I wonder how Vettel fanboys will explain this one.
Webber is in superform and mentally very strong.
If somebody deserves the title this year, it is Webber.
I also hopes he wins the rest of the pole positions this year, I'm tired of this "yes baby, thank you boys" peptalk by golden boy Vettel.
Not bad Mark!
He thanked his team over the radio: Thanks mates, not bad from the second driver (or something like it).
Indeed, he must be feeling invincible right now. After this weekend I think he'd still fancy his chances of winning if Christian Horner chained a ship's anchor to the back of his car.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bradley
I'm not a fan boy but RBR defended the decision because Golden Boy had more points than Webbo.
It will be interesting to find out, as in two weeks it will be 'home field advantage' for Vettel at Hockenheim.
Stand by for some 'interesting' developments... ;)
People like to over-dramatise sitautions with great enjoyment and this is a brilliant example of another such case. Even worse, all of this is gradually turning into a Vettel's personal bash. Media likes to blow things out of proportion and fans come nicely along, enjoying expressing as many negative feelings as possible.
Anyway, Horner's inexperience in dealing with such matters is also showing. It will be interesting to see, what is going to happen in the future though. I think in a way this is inevitable that any dominant team is sooner or later dragged into huge controversy (like for instance Brawn was in Spain '09). The difference is that now RBR is a new guest to such situations. The most important thing is that how can they come out of it and grow into a truly big team.
Well, I must say, I think Mark is being a little harsh on himself with his post race comments, nobody actually thinks he's number 2... he's just and arsehole, though I can understand his confusion seeing as the two are somewhat related!!!
And why is everyone so focused on one aspect of the decision to give Vettel the new wing. Seemed to me I read that Vettel ahead in the points was one factor, the fact that Vettel gained more the the new wing was another factor which seems to be ignored... Fact is, I really don't care if its blatant team orders, the wing worked better for Vettel, or even the team still feel they owe him for the first 2 races of the season, Webber going all cry baby post race, and airing the dirty laundry to the press would be why I would give Vettel the better/newer parts over Webber... Unlike arsehole Webber, Vettel has been a team player!!!
its easy to be a team player when the entire team is supporting you to the detriment of your teammate. When that team is quick to blame your teammate for a crash you caused. When your team brings two modified wings to the gp, you break yours and they give you your teammates. When your team tries to get your teammate to slow down so you can pass him, even though your teammate is leading the WDC and leading the bloody race.Quote:
Originally Posted by PSfan
yeah, its easy to be a team player if you are Vettel
not so much if you are Webber.
I'm no real fan of Webber but in this circumstance it is east to root for him as this situation is the closest thing we have to blatant team bias since the MSC/rubens partnership.
and like many, i am just curious to see what excuse RBR will give at Hockenheim to screw with Webber. The guy may be an arse but the team are clearly that plus the hole
btw there was no dirty laundry to air as it had been already hanging out for all to see.
Well said.Quote:
Originally Posted by truefan72
Quote:
Originally Posted by truefan72
BINGO
(BTW--I ain't no fan of the Austrian bunch, although some may think so since I think webber was the one responsible for Turkey, but ever since they dumped Speed for that four eyed frenchie Seabutt or whoever, and brought in the snot nosed Vestall.....well if they want me to root for them, fire either Webber or Vestall or both of them and give me some Speed.... :D ---hades and heckfire, my special mix of kool aid is far better for you than that red cow piss....put some real manly hairs on your chest...just ask my wife)
meanwhile like little mice (or hamsters), Jennie and Lowie are now how far ahead of the Red Cow piss bunch??
Oh and BTW, if you ask her, she will tell you it works great...put many a hair on her chest
Funny, you bring up Turkey as proof that there was already favoritism, that Vettel was already driver number one, do you know how dumb that sounds when you consider just 1 race prior, Mark won a red bull 1-2 in Monaco?!? And contrary to Red Bulls claim that Vettel's car was damaged, the manner of in which Webber won the race screams strategy was involved. If Vettel is clear #1, Red Bull would have manufactured a pit stop for Webber in Monaco.Quote:
Originally Posted by truefan72
During the BBC coverage, they mentioned that after Friday practice, that both drivers had to be convinced the new wing was better. Considering there was only 1 left to last qualifying, and the race, I I would assume that should it be required to replace, it would probably compromise the setup to some small degree, I'm not even sure it was wise for Vettel to use it, but during Red Bulls explanation why Vettel was getting the new wing for qualies and race they did point out that he did gain more from it the Webber (A point that people seem to want to ignore against the "Vettel was ahead in standing" explanation) perhaps Red Bull wanted to make sure they had their rivals covered.Quote:
Originally Posted by truefan72
But as far as blatant team bias, I'll take Red Bulls defense that if this was truly the case, Mark Webber wouldn't have been given the chance to try out the new wing...
After Webber's latest little "number 2" fart... um I mean outburst, they shouldn't even come out with an excuse... If the perception thats to the spoilt brat Webber is #2 then they should embrace it. Had Vettel won the first 2 races instead of having mechanical issues he would be far ahead of Webber. The team should claim they believe Vettel is their best chance at catching the McLerans and if Webber don't like it, they have a warm seat at Toro Rosso for him.Quote:
Originally Posted by truefan72
My dirty laundry statement wasn't limited to BGP post race. You can believe Red Bull when they say Vettel had more fuel then Webber in Turkey, or you can't but Webber's "conspiracy theory" dig deeper comments is what started this BS. and his "not bad for a number 2" statement today is just continues it. I may doubt some things I hear from Red Bull, But I do Believe them when they say that Vettel was able to save fuel in Turkey, and I do believe them when they say that Vettel gained more from the wing then Webber did, and I also believe them when they claim the weren't favoring Vettel. But if they are gonna be criticized because the perception is that they are favoring Vettel, then maybe they should!Quote:
Originally Posted by truefan72
If RBR had brought only 1 new experimental/faster wing to the race, and they gave it to Vettel who was leading in championship points, I would not have any argument with this.
BUT to take the wing off Mark Webber's car when Vettel damaged his own showed favouritism/bias/call it what you want. This is not the way to promote harmony within a team.
To stretch the point a long, long way, suppose Vettels car was damaged beyond repair on the way to the circuit, then by Horner's reasoning, he would have been fully justified in taking Mark Webber's car off him and giving it to Vettel.
I just laughed SO hard! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Hawkmoon
Yeah but they did it at the start of the season and made sure both drivers were well aware and willing. In this case RBR have told everyone, including their drivers, that there is no team preference. And then goes out and prefers Vettel.Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
THAT is your problem right there.
Why run it at all if the first one fell off ?
No offence and all... but are you on drugs?Quote:
Originally Posted by PSfan
Yes, I agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari
Can we have a poll on this issue? Was Red Bull wrong to give the wing to Vettel?
Actually, that sounds far dumber than the original post. A manufactured pit stop would have dropped Webber down the running order and ruined his race. They would have lost their one-two finish and stuffed everything up. They're talking about favourtism, not attempting to ruin a driver. Red Bull as a team still want maximum points. Red Bull were not in a position in Monaco to swap the drivers even if they wanted to as Webber was too fast. The first opportunity they really had to swap drivers was in Turkey where it certainly seems that the team tried to get Vettel in front of Webber, hence why it's a fair example.Quote:
Originally Posted by PSfan
The problem was not with the wing itself but the pins attaching to the car somewhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderbolt
Red Bull gives you wings :cheese:
This is a fantastic read, plus a gem of a photograph showing Vettel going up to Mark Webber to congratulate him after the race. http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/andrewben...ch_new_hi.html
It sums up what most here really feel (withthe exception of a couple of our formum members).
I find interesting Vettel's response after the race: "And Vettel made thinly veiled remarks that seem to have been aimed at Webber: "Sometimes good and bad you get to know people a little better and see their true faces. So I think I have learned my lesson and focus on myself." Maybe he should have a look in the mirror to learn to know himself.
The advantage of the new wing was nullified significantly beause Webber was simply quicker than Vettel all weekend.
Nice result for Brittney too!
If that snapshot is an accurate reflection of Webber's feelings then it looks like the situation may be irretrievable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Valve Bounce
I also noticed that for the team photo after the race, Adrian Newey sat between the winning driver and the team principal.
You could be right. By the way, who was the Red Bull guy who joined the three driverss on the podium?Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyL
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyL
I think that the Austrian corporate world feels the same for Vettel as RD felt for LH as a rookie, and hence will be more than willing to overlook the sins of vettel but not webber.
This weekend, Webber may have won the battle, but lost the war....fair or not, right or not, it does not ultimately matter....
indeed, red bull might not even be willing to give Webber the truck racing ride in nascar that they gave Mr. Speed, after he was terribly abused by that pair of germans, burger and whoseit, and dumped :(
of course, the difference is the consumers of the piss might revolt, that is the only thing stopping them from dumping him as we speak
Over the radio on the slowing down lap Webber said he wanted "Crunch" on the podium (Mark Lenton, Webber's head mechanic). Don't know if it was him that actually went up because I switched over to the WSB after the end of the race and missed the podium.Quote:
Originally Posted by Valve Bounce
Huh?!Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint Devote
Just think again.
None of them is German.Quote:
Originally Posted by markabilly
Why, you lookin to score some? Though perhaps you should ask something like that in PM... :p :Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari
though I fail to see how that relates to Webber/Vettel or the new wing...
Of course, maybe you are trying to find some for Mark? But after his post Qualifying comment about wanted to trade starting spots with Alonso I'm sure he already has a supplier.
Admittedly I had gotten Monaco and Spain confused a little, but having given a quick view of Monaco over at visionf1, my point still remains, if Webber truly is #2 at Red Bull they would have managed a position swap somehow at Monaco.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ent
The Austrians in the Red Bull camp make an error on the marketing side if that is their game.Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
Webber is a far better marketing personality in places like the United States, Canada, United Kingdom and all the English speaking countries because he is easy to identify with.
That old "question" - who would you like to sit and have a beer with? Webber or Vettel? Webber wins hands downin my view.
Vettel has an aura of "stiffness" as opposed to Mark's affability.
However a busnessman like Mateschitz still surprises me over this and I would love someone to interview him on what has happened at RBR since Istanbul Park.
Red Bull is quickly becoming the BULL team in f1 and while Horner has always looked somewhat slimey to me anyway - now I consider the team managment to be a bunch of liars.
Who the hell is in charge of PR? Helmet Marko?! :eek:
It was Dietrich Mateschitz who made both Horner and Marko back down on their accusations at Turkey. I just wonder what his take on this controversy is, but I suspect it will not be a happy response from him. I hope he fires Horner.
Horner has admitted he regrets not talking to Mark before the wing was removed.
That is staggering! They didn't even have the decency to tell him in advance it was going to be taken off !
The more I hear, the more I wonder if Horner even knew it was going to be taken off Mark or if "them upstairs" are pulling all the strings and leaving Christian to face the music on their behalf.
RBR have shown themeslfs two years in a row to be tactically lacking in chasing a world championship.
Now they are unable to man manage their drivers without causing major problems.
Clearly the problems are coming from the top, Marko and Horner have to go, no doubt about it.
Neither will be sent packing because decisions like these come directly from Vienna.
And what does not help is Vettel's de facto manager, BCE, weighing in and declaring that the German will be the WDC in 2010 and that he would never have believed that Webber could have performed like this.
Not particularly politically correct and dare I say bordering on racist remarks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint Devote
Mark is burning bridges.
what else did you expect?Quote:
Originally Posted by wedge
he manages to boil down a multinational outfit actually based in england with 2 drivers from germany and Australia and a parent company with a truly global reach and sports sponsorships into a simplistic "the austrians" view of matters.
RBR are making decisions vis-a-vis the vettel/webber thing based on driver preference and fear of losing vettel to ferrari rather than any nationalist sentiments or global marketing strategies for the drinks.
The company is doing quite well without the need of either driver being their face men. In fact so well that they managed to buy 2 F1 teams and run them with their own advertising on there.