You have that wrong. It is the other way around. TV is much more important than attendance to the success of the ICS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
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You have that wrong. It is the other way around. TV is much more important than attendance to the success of the ICS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
Actually the Singapore GP is more important to the rest of the world than any ICS race including the Indy500.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
Sebring was never a little brother to Daytono and today the 24hrs of Daytona isn't even a blip on the radar screenQuote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
Peugeot races in Sebring because it is a significant event worldwide. They along with other manufacturers realize it. Audi, Jaguar, Aston-Martin, Mazda, Porsche and Chevrolet would rather spend their motorsports marketing money on the 12 hours of Sebring than on the ICS,Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
You have been reading that ISC shill Morphy the bear too much. The ALMS is doing quite well. It is Summertime so now we all get to hear his rumor about how the ALMS is up for sale and the G/A is going to buy it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
How?Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
Give specifics.
If tracks do not get spectators, tracks shut-down.
Or is this because racing will just be, let's pretend video games with no real cars, so who needs tracks?
[quote="anthonyvop"]Actually the Singapore GP is more important to the rest of the world than any ICS race including the Indy500.
Based on what proof?
Monaco, maybe, Singapore is just another race, in another spec. formula series.
Sebring was never a little brother to Daytono and today the 24hrs of Daytona isn't even a blip on the radar screen
In your opinion
Peugeot races in Sebring because it is a significant event worldwide. They along with other manufacturers realize it. Audi, Jaguar, Aston-Martin, Mazda, Porsche and Chevrolet would rather spend their motorsports marketing money on the 12 hours of Sebring than on the ICS, So important Audi, who does sell cars in the U.S. skipped it.
Gee, Daytona has large internationally respected sponsor, Sebring does not.
While the cars at Daytona are turtles, it draws an international sponsor and Sebring is not even important to Audi.
Sebring must be really, really important.
Daytona is a sad image compared to what it once was, but Sebring is still standing in its shadow.
You have been reading that ISC shill Morphy the bear too much. The ALMS is doing quite well. It is Summertime so now we all get to hear his rumor about how the ALMS is up for sale and the G/A is going to buy it.I know of Murphy the Bear but have never read it.
GARRA or Grand Am is the France family, NASCAR keeps the France family in dollars, NASCAR is leaking badly, the France family is not buying anything as they are too busy trying to plug the leaks in the NASCAR.
Actually, as a fan of many different racing series, I like the Memorial Day weekend schedule pretty much as it is now ( although pushing Indy back to its earlier start time would be great, thank you)
That weekend Saturday and Monday are for the cookouts and what ever else
"normal" people (like my wife) may have planned.
Sunday is for wall to wall racing. An early morning F1 race, followed by the Indy 500, then the Coke 600-for me that Sunday is racing heaven.
IF Indy were to light the track, when would they hold the race?
Remember-TV wise (for the season, not just 1 race) Indy Car is #3 on the "depth chart" behind both Nascar Sprint Cup and Nationwide Series'. And ESPN/ABC televises the Nationwide Series race Saturday night in Charlotte, so are they going to want to compete with themselves? May be the 500 on ABC and Nationwide on ESPN2? That's not gonna happen.
Sunday night you lose the ABC/ESPN conflict, but does Indy REALLY want to go head to head with the 600? That's not gonna happen, either.
That leaves Friday night and Monday night, and neither will work (very well) as most of the trackside fans will have to work Friday so thats an extra vacation day they may or may not get from their bosses to travel to Indy, and Monday night leaves people with the pain of having to get home in time to get to work Tuesday morning. Oh, and what if it rains Monday night? That's a horror I'd rather not even think about.
F-1 averages a TV viewership of over 40 million per race...including Singapore. So the Singapore GP has more viewers than the entire ICS season.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
G/A's "internationally respected sponsor" is leaving after this year. Yep. You can kiss Rolex goodbye.
Sebring is sponsored by one of the World's largest Corporations.....Exxon via Mobile-1. Actually they have 2 major sponsors. The Official name is the Mobil 1 12 Hours of Sebring presented By Fresh From Florida.
In the U.S.?Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
Are we talking Indy Car or tracks? The success of a track is mutually exclusive to the Success of Indy Car.
The Success of Indy Car is totally dependent on sponsorship. No sponsorship no racing. Major sponsors are interested in marketing the investment through exposure.
That exposure is generated primarily through TV followed by other forms of media(Internet, Press..ect).
Do you think that any of the few team sponsors are paying the 4-5 Million dollars to have their car in front of an average of 35K fans?
Even for tracks their main source of income is sponsorship. Haven't you noticed that even though NASCAR attendance is down none of the tracks seem to be complaining?
Look at F-1. Nobody can argue that F-1 isn't by far the most successful racing series on the planet.
Bernie once said that they could hold an F-1 event and still make the same amount of money just from TV. Nobody with any knowledge of the biz has refuted that statement.
Does it matter?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
Have you noticed that there are more major US corporations sponsoring F-1 than in Indy Cars?
I noticed that there is no U.S. F-1 and vast majority of racing fans don't care.Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
Of course soccer probably has more fans than baseball and football combined but then in the U.S. soccer has the importance of a zit on a gnat's butt.
I have not seen any, net threads on Singapore, but there one finds many on the Indianapolis 500, and even the IRL, whilst not even looking for them.
The Dakar Rally is known better in the U.S. than any race in Singapore, or for that matter so is a race in Macau.
If you like it good for you.
So how much does the IRL pay the tracks to have the races.Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
Road America kicked out Indy cars because of no fans, so which is it?
If Indy cars pay the tracks then they must not pay Road America enough.
If the tracks do not need fans, how much are they paid?
If the tracks are not paid and fans do not show up, where will the cars run?
Race tracks are not charities.
Which is it?
You cannot have it both ways.
You cannot have it both ways.
You got it wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
The tracks pay the IRL to race at their facilities. Road America couldn't make it work because the IRL doesn't generate enough interest to draw fans and sponsors.
Do you believe that? Then why is there a lack of US drivers in the IRL?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
And why is FOX going to broadcast the Next 4 F-1 races on their NetworK?
How come ATT, HP, Microsoft and Exxon sponsor F1 teams and not the IRL? Why does Red Bull own 2 teams yet don't even sponsoring a team in the IRL. Red Bull is in every Major Series. F-1, WRC, Rally America, NASCAR and yet have no interest in Indy Car.
Now you are being silly. All one has to look at this message board.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
F-1 18,052 Threads.
Indy 6,108 Threads
You really believe that the Macau GP is more popular in the US than F-1?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
Really?
Even Dakar, an event I am involved with, isn't as well known as F-1 in the US. I wish it was though.
I will admit that F-1 isn't really popular in the USA but then again neither is Indy Car.
[quote="anthonyvop"]Do you believe that? Then why is there a lack of US drivers in the IRL?
And why is FOX going to broadcast the Next 4 F-1 races on their NetworK?
How come ATT, HP, Microsoft and Exxon sponsor F1 teams and not the IRL? Why does Red Bull own 2 teams yet don't even sponsoring a team in the IRL. Red Bull is in every Major Series. F-1, WRC, Rally America, NASCAR and yet have no interest in Indy Car.
It is called buying a ride and there are more foreign drivers with sugar daddies, than there are from the U.S.
Besides NASCAR pays so damn well, for just qualifying, why waste time with minor leagues like F-1 or Indy car.
Now you are being silly. All one has to look at this message board.
F-1 18,052 Threads.
Indy 6,108 Threads
YOU said Singapore not F-1, so, how many threads dedicated to Singapore verses the Indianapolis 500?
You are the one trying to say Singapore is more than just another unkonwn F-1 race in the U.S.
You really believe that the Macau GP is more popular in the US than F-1?
Really? Try actually reading what I write; it is BETTER KNOWN than Singapore.
Even Dakar, an event I am involved with, isn't as well known as F-1 in the US. I wish it was though.
Then you must run in a circle that is quite illiterate concerning automotive affairs, especially as terrorist threats have affected the Dakar, which put it on the front page news in some areas.
Singapore is in the news in Singapore.
I will admit that F-1 isn't really popular in the USA but then again neither is Indy Car.
Indianapolis is still front page sports section news in many news papers; F-1 is lucky if the results get listed.
Give me proof, all you are giving is your opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
Road America never had an IRL race.
Champ car was denied a race after 2004 and only allowed back on probabion of if it did not draw enough fans it would be removed permanently; therefore, Champ Car worked a deal with the IMSA, which worked 2006-7 but then Champ car went pffft.
Look it up.
Well here it gets about the same, close to zero.Quote:
Originally Posted by Starter
So let me get this straight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
You believe that the Macau GP is better known than the Singapore GP
Dakar is in the news still because of Terrorism in North Africa.
Indy Car is more Popular than F-1
Indy Car is on the front page of sports section.
Track Spectators are more important to the success of the Indy Car Series than TV.
Popular Hot Rodding and Car Craft magazine are more important than TV and the Internet regarding Indy Cars.
And the world doesn't exist outside of the US borders.
Who are you? Tony George?
BTW The Dakar hasn't been run in North Africa since 2007.
[quote="anthonyvop"][quote="Bob Riebe"]
So let me get this straight.
You believe that the Macau GP is better known than the Singapore GP-- In the U.S., yep.
Been around longer.
Dakar is in the news still because of Terrorism in North Africa.It was, and before that it was well known.
Indy Car is more Popular than F-1[n] We were speaking Indy verses Singapore. But in the U.S. I'll put my money on Penske and the IRL.
Indy Car is on the front page of sports section.Try actually reading what is written. Indianapolis race was. F-1 rarely even gets results listed around here, the IRL does.
Track Spectators are more important to the success of the Indy Car Series than TV. Tracks are, no spectators, no tracks, no races.
Popular Hot Rodding and Car Craft magazine are more important than TV and the Internet regarding Indy Cars.No, that is your way of twisting this.
If you are actually reading.
The fans that read those, used to go to open wheel races, if they want more fans, create a formula that brings them back,(by being mentioned in said same rags) otherwise they will continue to funnel millions of dollars into drag and short track racings pockets, and ignore open wheel and road racing.
And the world doesn't exist outside of the US borders. This thread, Indy cars, and I, are not concerned with things outside of North America, or really the Indianapolis 500 as far as non-short track open wheel racing goes.
Who are you? Tony George?
BTW The Dakar hasn't been run in North Africa since 2007. But of course, but it is still better known in the U.S. than the Singapore GP.
Just because something has been around longer does not make it more popular.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
The thought that a stand alone Formula-3 race is more popular than an F-1 event is ludicrous.
Who is talking just the US? I ain't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
Where is around here for you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
Who reads newspapers anymore? A dying form of media. And where I am from F-1 gets more press in the local papers than the IRL.
You have no grasp of the Business of Racing do you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
If you actually believe that spectators at a race are more important that TV for Indy Cars then I suggest you go find some other old guys and reminisce about front engine roadsters on short tracks
The fans of those magazines...The ones that are still alive....are too old to be a desirable market or of the wrong demographic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
Those guys will never embrace real racing. To try to lure them away from the drag strips and short tracks makes no sense economically. Wrong Demo.
You may not be concerned with things outside of North America but any business man is. And never forget that Indy Car is a business.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
The numbers disagree with you. I and will trust them before I trust you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
Listen I have just completed two sponsorship deals and are working on 3 more for a business.
We researched every major series F-1, WRC, IRC, Rally America, GP2, GP3, NASCAR, ALMS, G/A, Indy Car, NHRA, World Challenge, Dakar. ect. We have even looked at club series.
When it came to ROI Indy Car came in last in almost every category.
I've heard IMS is creepy at night (some say it's haunted) so I'm not going to get behind any night 500. I'm not opposed to the concept of night races, but Indy is neither the time nor the place for it.
I would only move the 500 to Monday if Firestone could build a rain tire that can the oval, because no one will watch on Tuesday.
As for me, I started watching street races at Long Beach when they were still F1 and the were absolutely hairaising!!! It was very difficult to lower the bar when ChampCars or whatever they were still called then came to LB the hairpin became a hard right and they never came screaming down Elm again (and turning in you rface if you were against the fence) Listen, I adjusted because I love motorracing but there was nothing like the first few races I went to. I, too, enjoy a GOOD oval for Indycar but an oval is an oval for me because then I first went racing the street courses had more shunts (most on purpose) than anything we see these days.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa
Boy....I am not sure I have much left to say after the Bob and Tony show.......
I will say this. Both of em have points. They need TV AND fans at the track. Fans at the track they can likely get, but they may end up losing an oval or two because of it, but if they cannot get eyeballs on TV, then the sponsors will go away, and bye bye racing...
You can make a similar argument for archaic TV blackout rules.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa
What did Bob & Tom say? I haven't heard them in a long time, but I remember they were big Indy 500 fans.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa