You're skewing the facts here Garry. You can view the third photo and clearly see that that "dirty driver" Webber is pushing Seb right onto the grass! Deadly move I tell you! :laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by Garry Walker
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You're skewing the facts here Garry. You can view the third photo and clearly see that that "dirty driver" Webber is pushing Seb right onto the grass! Deadly move I tell you! :laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by Garry Walker
I might as well be shagging a dead donkey here :rotflmao:Quote:
Originally Posted by airshifter
I never said I don't want a poll, I said that it doesn't prove anything, in fact a couple of posts above you actually agree with me :laugh: Please show me where I say that there shouldn't be a poll? :laugh:
And the Hamilton incident? It says that the majority of people aren't always right.
Webber, he lost the line, give up the position especially to a teammate who was obviously much faster at the end of the race, seems Webber failed to check his mirrors that Vettel was there.
Vettel needed to start moving into the middle of the track to get some angle to get the apex of the corner.
Done :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Valve Bounce
Can you close it down now?Quote:
Originally Posted by slorydn1
50% of people say it's both their fault and 50% say it's a racing incident :)
No :beer: :D :p :Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
Go ahead! make my day!Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
Seriously, I don't see how and why people can't just see who's fault it is, from a neutral perspective, when Martin Whitmarsh was talking with the BBC guys, he clearly said that he would not be hugging vettel as how RBR was after he came to the pits, for me that sums it up, it was clearly vettel's fault for that incident, and as how RBR is playing this, what it clearly means is they want Vettel for as long as they can, I'm sure now that webber would be looking for a drive next year, Vettel is a fine driver, but he is no schumi, I rated him higher before this race, he let his frustration come to him in that corner, he is young but great drivers keep there composure, he still has a long way to go.
Nice pictures there Gary. I hope Vettel has a look at them and realised he cocked up. You have to know your rivals - there was no way that intimidation BS was gonna work on Webber.
If you look at it from Webber's onboard camera it tells a different story IMHO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic
I'm still waiting for people to show where I said people weren't allowed to have polls or opinions btw :laugh:
Keep this up and I'll report you for counter trolling. :D :rotflmao:Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
On a more serious note, an on board camera shot can be misleading because it simply shows that the car on which the camera is mounted does not change direction, but everything around it moves. But the pictures posted above and originally supplied by Mr Walker clearly shows that there was a significant gap between Vettel's car and the white line before vettel made his move towards Webber.
I just wonder what the next step by RBR will be when Vettel decides to make a kamikaze move - will Webber be given prior instructions to yield?
Q: dose a team get any sort of reward for the youngest world champion
Q: bernie ecclestone picks a driver to win the world championship and he wins dose the team get a bonus
maybe it was the car that what you get for calling it randy mandy :p
I dont have an idea as to why Red Bull are saying that Webber was to blame, that was 100% Vettel's fault, sure Horner is talking about Webber going slowly (fuel saving mode) but that does not explain Vettel going directly into the side of him.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/moto...ne/8713862.stm
"How dare you Sebastian, my name is RB6-003, NOT F*****G MANDY!!!, for that I will make you suffer!"Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderbolt
i have once or twice agreed with Eddie Jordan (i know it sounds crazy).
i have a few times agreed with Daniel.
i have been known to even agree with Ioan.
never knowingly have i ever agreed with all 3 at the same time.
all Vettels fault for me
It seems Lewis also believes so -
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/moto...ne/8713780.stm
Quote:
Hamilton, who took his first win of the year, sided with Webber and said: "I am very surprised with the move Vettel did.
"You have to be sensible. It was a dangerous move because I tried to go on the outside of him. He turned towards me, there was no reason to turn right.
"He did the same thing with Mark and unfortunately he took himself out. Mark has driven well in the last few races and I am glad he was able to do finish."
McLaren team principal Martin Whitmarsh also felt that Vettel was to blame for the crash that handed his drivers a one-two finish.
"I was a little surprised by the extent to which the Red Bull team were cuddling Sebastian Vettel on the pit wall," he said.
"You have got to get your own ego behind the team and if you have a potential one-two finish in the race, don't do anything to jeopardise that."
From Webbers onboard it does look as though he thinks about squeezing Seb onto the grass, but then thinks better of it as he slowly angles across the track. But it also clearly shows that if anything Webber was moving to the right, making more room for Vettel.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
And without a doubt it shows that Webber did absolutely nothing in the way of causing the collision. Vettel ran into Webber.
If you have some onboard shots that would prove otherwise, post them up.
As for the poll, I fully understood your point, but I think you fail to understand mine. Poll or not, you seem to take offense that some (or in this case most) disagree with you. But at the same time, you are trying to convince that majority percentage that they are wrong, simply because you said so.
So I'll ask again, what sporting regulation did Webber violate? Vettel caused a collision, which is a breach of sporting regulations that could have been investigated.
The Vettel supporters are getting quieter and quieter.. I think in the cold light of day as more and more evidence and opinions come out, the blindingly bloody obvious is starting to dawn upon even the most hardened Vettel fans - it was 100% Vettels fault.
I'm a Vettel fan and have stated that Vettel was at fault from the start.
I really fail to see how it's Webber's fault for maintaining his line down the straight.
Vettel's duty was to clear Webber before setting up for the next left-hand turn.
Japan 2008, not the first time Vettel has ran into Webber. Pressure just got to Vettel.
If this was a football team and Vettel scored an own goal, the team would be blaming the goalkeeper.
Nevermind which driver's fault it was. The lead-up to and the catastrophic aftermath of those 10 seconds on lap 40 was all of their own doing, they deserve all the bad press that they are getting.
Canada will certainly be interesting.
Perhaps people have just given up trying to have an opinion?Quote:
Originally Posted by RJL25
awww whaaa whaaa Daniel, would you like me to phone you the WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAmbulance?
New forum rule: If everyone else thinks your wrong then you may instigate the "everybody hates me" rule where by you may accuse everyone of not allowing you to have an opinion as opposed to simply admitting that you may have been wrong thus saving your ego from having to make such an admission.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/mot...rk-Webber.html
Quote:
given the choice between an Australian who has been around for a decade or a young German who would become the sport’s youngest ever world champion if he wins this season, Red Bull’s Austrian parent company would prefer the latter. They are in the F1 business for marketing purposes and Vettel winning would almost certainly gain more exposure.
LOL Malllen! :D
After all the expectations of seeing this kind of intra-team battle in McLaren its like car crash TV watching the Red Bull team spirit twitch and die live on TV.
I'm not crying rjl25. I have my opinion and I stand by it.
As is your right. Personally I think its time to step back from this one; We've all stated our positions and clearly will not be swayed one way or the other.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
My interest is now moving to the in team tension that will no doubt have doubled within the team over the last 3 races.
Yes indeed, something I think we can all agree on is that the tension between Webber and Vettel is now huge, they appeared to previously be mates, perhaps not close mates but still mates. Now thats all screwed, they hate it each other, as it probably should be! They are going for the WDC!
The problem for RBR is they have now publically shown their hand in favour of Vettel, but the problem is Vettel is 5th in the championship now and Webber, the guy they don't want to win, is 1st!
I think Webber is going to be even more "on it" at the next grand prix. The last 3 races he has been racing on memory of being beaten in Malaysia and wanting to show Vettel whats-for, but now, he'll be even more angry and determined to shove it up the ass of not just Vettel, but basically the rest of RBR as well!
I don't think there is huge tension between the drivers. Funny thing is how all this would be avoided if both the drivers were told to turn up the fuel mixture so that Webber and Vettel would maintain their gap, and Vettel would stay out of the reach of the McLarens.
It was a situation poorly handled by RBR leading up to the accident, and poorly handled after the accident.
No way! the right hand rear wheel nut is going to jam, suddenly Webber's fuel consumption will have skyrocketted and he must go into fuel conserve mode, and he will not even be able to see Vettel ahead of him on the track.Quote:
Originally Posted by RJL25
78% say Vettel's fault, according to the poll here.
Anybody care to admit that James Allen's poll (80%) and Jon Noble's (79%) may not have been so skewed after all?
I think that tension was certainly a factor in the incident. We've seen a change in the happy "Little Britain" loving Vettel in recent times into a rather grumpy driver who seems to go into sulk mode when he's not leading and winning races.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic
Mark Webber's form this season (with the exception of Australia) has been superb and he's had the measure of the team's favourite son and, while I wouldn't expect Vettel to enjoy being beaten, his response has lacked maturity IMHO, possibly because of the cosseting he receives from Red Bull.
In Turkey we saw Webber leading from pole and Vettel's move could be seen as a result of frustration at seeing that happen yet again.
All those rascists Brits I would assume :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Brockman
Yep, but without the poll, who would've known? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Brockman
I am very interested to see how this Red Bull dilemma unfolds.
The term, "the majority of people are idiots" comes to mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Brockman
Lewis Hamilton, Martin Brundle, David Coulthard, Anthony Davidson, Alex Wurz and Nico Rosberg all called it Vettel's fault.Quote:
Originally Posted by 555-04Q2
If you'd like to tell me which F1 drivers past or present (apart from Helmut Marko) see it differently then I would like to know.
But, but, but, what about Eddie? Suddenly he's gone from a bit of a fool to the font of all knowledge :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Malllen
It certainly shows the difference in the drivers work ethics;
When Mark was being beaten (for the first time in his career) he held his hands up and said on several occasions "hey, this guy is just quicker." But he's gone away over the winter and come back stronger and, aside from Aus, has seemed confident and assured.
Now Vettel is being beaten (for the first time in his career too) he's sulking, blaming mysterious chassis faults and getting reckless.
I know which of the two I would want in my team leading the charge for the WDC.
I guess this sums up why I dislike the RBR team; they are a marketing exercise on wheels, less interested in racing and too interested in having the right "face" win the title.
Up till now, I have had no problem with Red Bull. They have brought a lot of money into the sport which if they hadn't, would have given F1 a big headache in the last few years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic
I also like their drivers. Mark is a no nonsense Aussie who refreshingly holds his hands up when he "runs out of talent" as he puts it and vettel promises to be a real star.
Now though, I'm not so sure. Webber is either proving himself a much better peddler than I gave him credit for or vettel is a bit over hyped. His reaction to the pressure Mark is putting him under is rather poor.
As for RBR, if Sebs stock has diminished slightly, theirs has plummeted after this weekend in my eyes.
My only hope is that Red Bull are not stupid, that they are evaluating the reaction of the fans and will let their drivers to race honestly.
Thanks for respecting my rights :) Unlike some others :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic