Such as?Quote:
Originally Posted by BDunnell
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Such as?Quote:
Originally Posted by BDunnell
You obviously believe in sacred cows. I'll eat a steak, no matter what cow it comes from.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
The data provided is fact, not opinion. The assessment that followed was my opinion... just as yours was your opinion. I do not share your opinion. I do not believe it is the responsibility of the American taxpayer to fund and support the safety of every other nation in the world, with us contributing MORE than all of the other (major) nation COMBINED. I see any nation that continues to do that, especially one with major fiscal issues, as a sucker.
To address our fiscal concerns, every cow, including those held as sacred by this group or that group, is going to have to be looked at. Otherwise, we will not get out of this. The path we are on now is not sustainable. To deny that, by glossing over it with speeches about mom & apple pie and "let freedom ring", will not solve the problem.
What I see are two sides, each with a plan that's going to spend us into oblivion.
You seem to me to suggest that the treatment suffered by what you call 'negroes' (a term that must now be considered far out of date — I can't think when I last heard it used in the modern era) can somehow be explained away as a result of some period fashion, rather than being the result of deep-seated prejudice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
Yes I do.Quote:
Originally Posted by BDunnell
(And that within the brackets, is only your opinion as I have noticed in forums that failure to emphasize a point, that is not important to, will cause it to be ignored by, (then corrected by "oh I missed that part") liberals.
Again, as you get angrier, your sentences (i.e. the second one here) become increasingly devoid of punctuation, and therefore sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
Your first statement here, by the way, is beneath contempt. Are you saying that I have ever, or would ever, do so? I would happily argue a point with anyone, but to do so at a war memorial would be deeply inappropriate. I trust you will apologise.
I have six half-black, nephews and nieces, so do not tell anything about race relations.Quote:
Originally Posted by BDunnell
Until some liberal twits in later years decided that they did not like the correct word for their race, and substituted "black" they were called Negroes by everyone, including themselves, and I have spoken with Negroes, in the "modern" day who will never accept that there was any reason to be called a color rather than a race.
The term white is far more racially prejudiced as Negroe as there is NO white race; therefore it is strictly a racist term; although it does help polically to separate Latinos, East Indians, Persians etc. as they are all Caucasians.
OK, I apologise for having jumped to any conclusions without knowing anything of your background. However, you do nothing to disabuse me of your notion that the abuse such individuals suffered was something other than deep-seated. What exactly was the rabid ethnic hatred you experienced in your community, of which you wrote before?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
Legally Okinawa is a very different place though; nobody has ever addressed where the responsibility lies.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior
Famously under Section 9 of the US imposed constitution of Japan it says:
2) To accomplish the aim of the preceding paragraph, land, sea, and air forces, as well as other war potential, will never be maintained. The right of belligerency of the state will not be recognized.
The Constitution of Japan was ordered by MacArthur to be re-written after he outright rejected Joji Matsumoto's Commissions draft and had it mostly written by two of his own staff Milo Rowell and Courtney Whitney.
The question is, does the United States therefore have the responsibility to provide military security, when they're responsible for denying Japan the right to maintain their own military?
Is the Japanese Self-Defence Force even legal in the first place? Or is it an extension of the Police Force as they suuggest that they are?
And if the USA are not responsible for providing military security, then why have they not removed their forces under Section 12 of the Potsdam Agreement:The occupying forces of the Allies shall be withdrawn from Japan as soon as these objectives have been accomplished and there has been established in accordance with the freely expressed will of the Japanese people a peacefully inclined and responsible government.
Ie, if the US Force in Okinawa is not an "occupying force", then what the hell is it doing there?
None of these questions have ever been answered properly by anyone, and as such, the bases at Okinawa are still maintained, and with plans to move to bigger facilities.
Kind of off topic, but there actually is a Latin message board where this has been a long running topic of discussion. I've looked at it before, but most of the participants seem to be PhD's or PhD candidates, so they're waaaay out of my league.Quote:
Originally Posted by BDunnell
I just find it funny (in a sad sort of way) that we have this weird parallel. And I'm sure that the lesson has been repeated many more times than just this one example. But when the Empire was "working" (with money coming in), Rome grew stronger. When the Empire began to bleed aureus and ignore infrastructure, the sun began to set. It's unfortunate that the teaching of the Latin classics ended in the U.S. with my mother's generation, approximately 70 years ago. But we can't even learn from our own (more recent) history, so I guess it would be too much to expect for us to learn from guys who wore skirts and talked funny.
41% of the total, global military spending... :rolleyes: Well, as long as the Chinese will keep letting us borrow money (and allow us to buy some of the rare earth minerals they're stocking up on, that are required to build our high tech firecrackers), we'll be OK. Yeah. Sure, we will. I wonder if there'll be some guy on a message board 2,000 years from now, who will think that we were too cool for school. More than likely he'll be talking about the Romans too... and we'll just be a sad, silly footnote. :dozey:
Sorry, I can't answer any of those questions. But if I was Japanese, I'd keep quiet and keep a low profile on this one. Japan has the second largest economy in the world (in terms of GDP), and some of their infrastructure projects are absolutely mind-boggling. They tend to invest in themselves and their own nation first - we don't do that. Their kids are FAR more advanced in math and science than our kids. While they do have their own economic and fiscal concerns, our overall situation is worse than theirs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollo
IMO, we're moving toward the point where the only time you'd call on an American is if you need someone with a strong back and a weak mind. Maybe we'll get it together before it's too late. But the average American spends more time watching American Idol and the Real Housewives of Orange County than in digging for information and data (not opinions presented by network talking heads in echo chambers). As long as you spend that borrowed money on their sacred cow, you'll keep the average American voter fat, dumb and happy.
In my particular area, as an example, there is/was a town of several hundred people which had two schools, one which was used by the Bohemians (that is how they were called by all) and the other by the Polish.Quote:
Originally Posted by BDunnell
Most ethnic separations were also enhanced by Protestant vs. Roman Catholic, but more often than not, one religion was of one ethnic group, and the other of another, often crossing national boundaries in the "homelands".
You would hear "damn (pick an ethic group) more often than "damn catholic" etc.
Disdain for Bohemians, Pomeranians, Bavarians etc. was the norm, not to even address Spicks, Micks, Kikes and other more colorful names.
I would say near all grandparents and at least half of the parents in my town of five thousand people, could speak a foreign language and when they did, it was so the children would have no idea of what was being said, which probably also why the ability to speak another language died with our parents, as if we asked what was being said, we were told children were to be seen and not heard.
To marry across these boundaries meant one spouse was ostracized from the ones family forever.
The tone of hatred I heard in adults, who thought we were not listening was so vehement that people almost spit when speaking of the other side.
This faded away rapidly, when a single race became an easy target for an us verses them attitude, due to Pres. Johnsons
( who took the centuries over-due civil rights act and destroyed the good it would do, )
making one race, and one race only recipients of government handouts. This quickly made them dependent on and butt-boys of the government, whilst also making them subject of scorn as their very high standard of moral behavior collapsed into a mo' money hand-out attitude, highlighted by drug pushers and pimps becoming status symbols in some neighborhoods.
There was a show broadcast here on public television, some years back, about the tar-shack ghettos, for lack of a better term, in the Twin Cities in Minn. where immigrants and those on hard times lived till they could find a better job and move out.
There, as opposed to areas with more fortunate occupants, there were no problems due to race or ethnic group, they lived side by side and helped as people in neighborhoods used to do in Minn.(Of course this was also at a time when immigrants put priority status on learning to speak English, and speak it well, so they could communicate and function well with the society they were joining.)
The show also tells that, that, all came to a rapid halt when Johnson's Great Society rules were implemented, as one group suddenly had access to government help that others in equal dire straights did not.
The city decided to fix that by destroying the poor neighbor hoods and building tenement housing which were later torn down when they turned into dens infested with pimps and pushers.
The North Vietnamese also wanted to save their country. They wanted it more and succeeded. The difference was only what they wanted to save their country from.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
Diego Garcia.....please discuss.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depopul...f_Diego_Garcia
Interesting. I didn't even know the place existed. If that had happened in Europe , the media would have been all over it. And if it had been done by the Soviet Union, the US and the UK governments would have been all over it too.Quote:
Originally Posted by GridGirl
Bit like the Bikini Atoll case:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bikini_Atoll
Quote:
The Micronesian inhabitants, who numbered about 200 before the United States relocated them after World War II, ate fish, shellfish, bananas, and coconuts. A large majority of the Bikinians were moved to a single island named Kili as part of their temporary homestead, but remain there today and receive compensation from the United States for their survival.[7]
In 1968 the United States declared Bikini habitable and started bringing a small group of Bikinians back to their homes in the early 1970s as a test. In 1978, however, the islanders were removed again when strontium-90 in their bodies reached dangerous levels after a French team of scientists did additional tests on the island.[8] It was not uncommon for women to experience faulty pregnancies, miscarriages, stillbirths and damage to their offspring as a result of the nuclear testing on Bikini.[9] The United States provided $150 million as a settlement for damages caused by the nuclear testing program.[10]
Since the early 1980s the leaders of the Bikinian community have insisted that, because of what happened in the 1970s with the aborted return to their atoll, they want the entire island of Bikini excavated and the soil removed to a depth of about 15 inches. Scientists involved with the Bikinians have stressed that while the excavation method would rid the island of the cesium-137, the removal of the topsoil would severely damage the environment, turning it into a virtual wasteland of wind-swept sand. The Council, however, feeling a responsibility toward their people, have repeatedly contended that a scrape of Bikini is the only way to guarantee safe living conditions on their island for their future generations.[citation needed]
Jealous, aren't we?Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
Whenever I listen to people bashing the US and calling it "evil" and "imperialist" I always ask 2 things.
1: Name me one superpower that has behaved better than the US!
2; Think of the alternative! Imagine if a country like Russia or China was Dominant.
I'm not, how about you?Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
That's like asking someone to name one supervillain who has behaved better than Dr. Evil.Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr._Evil
That's like telling someone with syfilis: "So, you have syfilis. Think of the alternative! Imagine if you had AIDS."Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
Nobody has to be dominant. We should leave that to the UN General Assembly (the Security Council should be dismantled) and decide there democratically how to run the world.
I think all the bases in other countries except our territories should operate with a profit. South Korea should pay for our presence. If the base is not profitable then close it.
Also due to our economic condition all foreign aid should be suspended.
It was noth ther country anymore than South Korea is North Korea's country.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
Bob
PS-- Tell the Hmong how they belonged to North Vietnam; the N. Viets.
Well you statements beg to differ.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
Ahhhh.....Typical reply when the answer hurts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
So Syphilis and AIDS are equal in your mind?Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
As long as there are free men there will always be dominant nations. The sooner you grasp that concept the happier you will be,Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
Really? You want a Country like Iran telling you how you should treat women?Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
Good thing most Finns don't think like you do.
If the US, Russia and China are equal in your mind. I meant that a lesser evil is still evil.Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
FYI, there are about 200 countries in the world, and Iran is just one country. They'd need over 100 countries to support them to have their say. So would the US. It would be a popularity contest, not a contest of which one is more scary.Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
If the US, Russia and China are equal in your mind. I meant that a lesser evil is still evil.Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
I agree with that. Not so much for profit, but at least the operating costs... especially in the case of certain (most) nations where it benefits them a LOT more than the American taxpayer, who is picking up the bill.Quote:
Originally Posted by fousto
Before I'd pay a G.I. to walk the line in some desolate crap hole, protecting someone else's freedoms (or whatever made up term people want to dream up), I'd have that guy working on a bridge or road here... or if still in the military, I'd have him on the border with Mexico with his .50 cal trained on a Zeta across the border. People might have an issue with this, but I'd put him in Chicago or south central L.A., patrolling a drug infested area, which is (literally) being terrorized by street gangs.
It royally pisses me off when we send our troops overseas, at OUR EXPENSE, yet we have budget issues and more than enough problems right here to deal with. That DOES NOT mean that I'm for eliminating the military presence overseas. Nor do I fall for the (hyerbolic) argument that some like to use: anyone who isn't in favor of spending us into a military spending hole is an isolationist. I'm not an isolationist, nor am I a protectionist (in regard to trade). But I do not believe that we should be taken advantage of at every turn. And like I said, anyone who willingly bends over and takes it, while others get a virtual free ride, is a SUCKER! And looking at the amount we spend on the global military presence, where we spend it, the % of GDP that it represents and the fact that a lot of the countries where we have troops have unfair trade practices... we are SUCKERS!!!
"Thank you, sir... may I have another?" should be our new motto.
OT-- this Sony computer has a jumping cursor that no one knows how to fix (that is how some truly odd typos come to be as I jdo not anglways fix all before printi {the previous words, plus the above sentence exist because it jumped as I wrote this}Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
Have any of you this problem?
How can it be fixed as the "pros" seem clueless
It is goinig nuts as I write this, with the worst be the d anwhole page being marke and lerased it I hit key not associated with deletion.
Help.
Okinawans don't really want American presence, and it doesn't operate with a profit. Pray tell, what is your justification for the base being there at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by fousto
I'm not backing the staement made about profit just meerly stating Okinowa is a refueling station for our pacific fleet.we also help thier enomomy even if they don't want us there, they surely take our money.
Okinawans for the most part don't even want to be part of Japan. But the fact of the matter is that they are, and Japan wants the US on Okinawa.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollo
Really?Quote:
Originally Posted by airshifter
One of Yukio Hatoyama's reasons for being elected to Prime Minister (and indeed the whole DJP being elected to government) was the total removal of American forces from Japanese territory.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/02/wo...apan.html?_r=1
Japan’s Democrats pledged during the campaign to relocate the base off Okinawa or even out of Japan altogether.
http://www1.voanews.com/english/news...-92795599.html
Japan’s Prime Minister Yukio Hatoyama broke a key campaign pledge Tuesday, telling the people on the southern island Okinawa that a U.S. Marine base would not be removed completely.
He apologized to Okinawans, saying some U.S. Marines must remain on Okinawa to provide deterrence and maintain the U.S.-Japan alliance. He was speaking after talks with local officials and residents, who reacted angrily to his comments.
Japan went to the polls with this as a key issue; the people spoke on this one, therefore the government has a mandate to do something about it.
Your statement is materially wrong.
At least it's reassuring to know that domestically we are a highly evolved, tolerant, law abiding and peaceful Republic. :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior
http://billingsgazette.com/news/loca...cc4c002e0.html
Sounds like the Taliban in Afghanistan:Quote:
Originally Posted by Tazio
Especially if you add a couple of abortion clinics to that:Quote:
Two medical marijuana businesses in Billings were firebombed and tagged with graffiti reading “NOT IN OUR TOWN” over the last two days, rattling their owners and leaving others outraged in advance of a City Council meeting to decide whether to restrict the industry’s growth.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_violence
We won it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollo
I was against the return of Okinawa to Japan to begin with.
And the Soviet Union won Estonia, Lithuania and Latvia, China won Tibet, Castro won Cuba, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
No worries. No worries. We'll be fine. Within one more generation, the average American will be too fat to go out and cause any trouble anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tazio
http://wizardsarebetter.files.wordpr...08/fat_kid.jpg
But we'll be happy. Look at the smile on his fat little face! Unless the battle takes place at his dinner table, this roly-poly Ringo Starr wannabe won't be fightin' no wars.
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m...onthedrums.gif
Another trillion $ into sh##holes like Iraq (have ya heard Saddam was a "bad man"? oh yeah, he was the only one... and he was just like Hitler too!)... and I figure Atilla can start gathering his men "at the gate". He might even want to take in the Cherry Blossom Festival in D.C. before he takes the city.
Beyond Estonia,Lithuania and Latvia, you analogy does not exist, and a good liberal U.S. president gave the former three to Russia.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
Jag I read "Fast Food Nation" It's repulsive what "some" people injest, and in mass quantities.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior
That slop should come with warning labels just like smokes (not that it would do any good)
Here in my neck of the woods (S.D. Ca.) were considered to live above the adverage in terms of health and diet.
If that is really true it's a sad commentary on the general health of us all inclusive!
I have known a number of racists...seems racists come in all sorts of different colors.
might be one myself, depending on how you define the term
Back home when I was growing up, had some very near and nice ancestors that truly believed in "seperate but equal" status for minorities, and worse, some even believed that for women as well. :eek:
Indeed, so very radical were these horrifying beliefs, all the good folks living around them, called them "communists" for such radically left wing insane views and never invited them to go play dress up and wear those white robes at midnight.... :(
All that is clear is that the world is going to hell, just wish i could get off before it arrives---or to MacDonald's. (thanks for sharing your family photos, Jag, makes me wish for back home)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollo
Imagine that, a politician who didn't uphold a campaign pledge. This is movie material in the making, as it's never happened in the past! ;)
I'm more than aware of the tensions and reasons behind those tensions on Okinawa. I've seen both sides of the story, and understand why some of them want the bases moved or gone. Just as with many areas here in the US and abroad, most of those protesting made a decision to live near the base, then protest it existing.
I'm also fairly aware of the military resources on Okinawa and their capabilities, as well as why they are on Okinawa in particular. Unless Japan wants to go it alone on national security in the region, they don't have many options. And as much as they hate to admit it, the government of Japan understands those reasons and options enough to maintain bases they have long ago promised the population they would shut down. The Japanese government is much more concerned about what is seen in that aerial recon imagery than the US is, I can assure you of that.
I've also seen first hand just how lopsided the reporting on many things on Okinawa are. You hear about any major crime by a US serviceman, but they seem to forget what crimes the Okinawans commit against the US military. I've also seen the reports of economic impact on the bases closing, and just how quick those numbers were disproven when it was taking into the context of money actually made on the island, not including the money of wealthy investors that would earn it regardless.
Speaking of Estonia, the Soviets believed in the power of negotiations and funnily it worked and lives were saved:Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estonia
They could have just bombed the sh!t out of the Estonian resistance until they were all dead. That's the US recipe.Quote:
Most of the Estonian Defence Forces and the Estonian Defence League surrendered according to the orders of the Estonian Government believing that resistance was useless and were disarmed by the Red Army.[47][48] Only the Estonian Single Signal Battalion stationed in Tallinn at Raua Street showed resistance to Red Army and Communist Militia called "People's Self-Defence"[49] on June 21, 1940.[50] As the Red Army brought in additional reinforcements supported by six armoured fighting vehicles, the battle lasted several hours until sundown. Finally the military resistance was ended with negotiations and the Single Signal Battalion surrendered and was disarmed.[51] There were 2 dead Estonian servicemen, Aleksei Männikus and Johannes Mandre, and several wounded on the Estonian side and about 10 killed and more wounded on the Soviet side.[52][53] The Soviet militia that participated in the battle was led by Nikolai Stepulov.[54]
Not at that point in time Eki.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
That kind of behavior was championed by Japan. See "Rape of Nanking"
There was also a bloke named Hitler that misbehaved in that time of reference!
You have to go back at least as far as “The Spanish American War” to find that level of aggression commonly referred to as Manifest Destiny!
I know if I ever got into a firefight with Eki on my side I would want him where I could see him, not behind me! :p
Again the analogy exists only in your faulty logic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
Although, Eki is correct back after WWII, how the ALLIES, not just the U.S. handled resistance. If armed resistance was met, the village was shelled, or the occupants of any and all villages were told that it would be s shelled if any resistance was met.
One of the facts of WWII that is rarely told.
As Russia was one of the ALLIES, Estonia knew they had no chance, period.