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Remember I started the thread before Obama had done anything. My main point was he was getting an easy ride from the media.
Both have now changed. He is now acting and he is getting blasted for being slow off the mark.
What is now needed is one person or team in total charge and co-ordinating all efforts, both the capping and the clean up, not a half dozen different groups all doing their own thing.
Hopefully Obama can ensure that happens.
I wish I had never started this thread!
Guys...quit personal comments/insults and keep it on topic !
:eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by gloomyDAY
You make me laugh.
This accident is a consequence of human mistakes while Katrina was a natural disaster that no one could control no matter how much would have tried. Still you somehow come to the conclusion that Bush has done worse than Obama.
What did the US government to minimize or even contain the oil that is flowing into the ocean? Nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by gloomyDAY
FYI once the situation degrades behind a certain limit and starts threatening like in this case the problem needs to be handled by the government in the best interest of everyone.
I am not a republican, nor a democrat but I have to say that the way you see things is unacceptable and irresponsible.
So Bush stayed mute after a natural disaster that no one could control, Obama is making a lot of noise about the scale of a man provoked disaster that could be contained if only he would stop talking and start thinking.Quote:
Originally Posted by gloomyDAY
Tell me again how on Earth can you be so blind and deaf, and devoid of any logic and common sense?
Any catastrophe of this scale is already his responsibility, no matter how you look at it. The worst part is that he goes on to lay the blame to others feet but then that's it, game over, a total lack of leadership.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
This is a very interesting subject. Drifter, you created a great thread my friend, because it involves debate, which is always interesting.
The reality of it is...Sh!t happens. Even with all the strigent safety regs and procedures the government mandates the oil companies to have, on occasion things happen. We don't know what exactly happened yet, and why the blowout preventer didn't hold the oil but we have a disaster on our hands.
It isn't Obama's job to yell at BP, point fingers, or use this as a platform to demonize big oil, but I suspect that is coming in a round a bout fashion.
IT is BP's job to do whatever they can while asking for help. The US Army Corp of Engineers and the Coast Guard, along with FEMA would be the gov't agencies involved, but unlike the quiet waters of the sound outside of Valdez, waves and currents here are really making a mess that no boom or effort could really contain.
I just know it is a bit of a stretch to think Obama COULD have done really that much other than order agencies of the Federal Gov't in. The thing is, this mess started on the 23rd of April. It is only NOW the press is getting on Obama's case. about 12 hours after Katrina the press was all over Bush because New Orleans wasn't prepared. Then they were all over him for not going right down there to survey the situation, but rather viewing from the air as he flew over on his way to San Diego. Then they were all over him when he DID get there. Then they were all over him for weeks after. In short....he could do no right in those weeks...and the sad reality of it was, he is the last link in the chain. Everyone else had to drop the ball first to make the mess that was the aftermath of Katrina, and the other states have pretty much fixed everything up and moved on. It is still only New Orleans that bears the scars and THAT is because of the local gov't and how dysfunctional they still are.
In direct comparision to Katrina, Obama has no state or local gov't he can really blame, just BP. That said, pointing fingers wont clean this up. Sometimes, there is no bad guy..and I think this is one of those cases, but the way the press and (Bill Maher was right for a change) the world has kind of given Obama a free pass from criticism is a contrast to the heat Dubya took for Katrina. Neither disaster was their doing, and neither one can be solved by the President, but is is a curious thing to see how the world reacts.
I understand that the "funnels" are nearly complete and should be lowered to the leak by the weekend so at least the flow of new oil might be halted.
I don't think you read my response well at all. People were starting to draw parallels between the matters of Katrina and the BP disaster. I just thought it was a bit of a stretch trying to compare two events that were mutually exclusive.Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
The Federal government has stepped in and is doing its share, along with BP, to contain the oil hazard. The actions being taken would fall under your category of "responsible". I doubt you've read the news lately (and are now opening Google to see the latest news on the spill) because then you would know that the oil spill coming from the sunken rig has 1 of 3 leaks clamped shut.Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
I'm not blind, deaf, devoid of logic and have plenty of common sense. As I mentioned earlier there isn't any magical trick that's going to solve this disaster, only sheer grit. An oil spill may not be unprecedented, but one of this magnitude is.Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
If you can't take the heat....Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
Great article. Also demonstrates how difficult and unique the BP oil spill is in comparison to other oil spills.Quote:
We are dealing in a battle space with no human access. In fact, I call it ‘inner space.’ It’s more like Apollo 13 than the Exxon Valdez because we’re seeing everything with remotely operated vehicles.
They did so, but 10 days too late when it was obvious from day one that this is turning into a huge ecological catastrophe.Quote:
Originally Posted by gloomyDAY
It is?Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
Yes it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
How can a 100% naturally occurring product which causes no long term damage be an ecological disaster?Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
Ummm It is naturally occuring in little seeps into the ocean....not at this rate. So yes you are correct it is a natural product, but it still is a disaster....nature doesn't push that many barrels of oil out that fast on her own...Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
http://www.mms.gov/omm/pacific/enviro/seeps1.htmQuote:
Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa
Funny how you omit part of my statement to twist my words. BP have openly stated that they are to blame for the oil spill. The Federal government is doing its part from having this problem become any worse. BP is taking care of the leaks (with really ingenious methods I've never heard of prior to this incident) and the Fed is trying to save the coast.Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
Usually not mentioned, is that the Obama administration gave British Petroleum the waver, to a law, that allowed them to not install the remotely controlled shut-off valve that would have stopped this a long time ago, aong with the fact that BP was one of Obama's major campaign contributors.Quote:
Originally Posted by gloomyDAY
Now had this been Pres. Bush, both would have been plastered all over print pages, and on the air 24 hrs. a day.
Yeah, I've heard of this since BP did contribute a lot of cash to Obama. I'm still trying to find some kind of paper trail because most of what I've read is just hearsay. Wouldn't be surprised if it was true and maybe it's the reason why the Obama administration started cranking up the spin machine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
I read it Tony, still doesn't change the fact this mess was created through someone's screw up. You cant just ignore it if you want a commercial fishery in Lousiana if the shrimp grounds are ruined by this.Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
I think you keep forgetting that regardless of whose "fault" it is...it is a mess that that part of the world doesn't need. This isnt' some naturally occuring seep, but if it was, the government would still be trying to do something about it.
Look at the big picture.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa
We need oil. We will continue to need oil for the foreseeable future.
The Oil Industry in Louisiana is worth TRILLIONS of DOLLARS. The Shrimping industry is worth a few million.
The Oil Industry employs tens of thousands and pays huge amounts of Taxes.
The Shrimping industry is collapsing even before the spill do to market factors.
Any damage caused by the spill will be temporary.
Yes it sucks to be a shrimper in Louisiana right now but Sh*t happens and they will be compensated by BP.
Even though this was a freak accident We just need to be even more diligent with drilling safety.
I didn't say we didn't need oil. I am just not ready to adapt the attitude this isn't a big deal and BP should have more than a handslap for it. This is their operation, and they now have a well that has put crude over a large segement of the Gulf. Ya, they will pay restitution for this and that is all well and good, but this isn't some oops...this is a major screw up.Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
I tend to agree Tony. We need oil, it's as simple as that and accidents will happen and even with the best of safety practice accidents will still happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
Lets just hope that this is the last time a big incident like this occurs
There is no excuse for stuff like this though..... -> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8616880.stm I hope they get the crap prosecuted out of them.
Quoting or not your whole statement wouldn't have changed my answer, I hope this satisfies you, but most probably it doesn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by gloomyDAY
History says that humanity can't learn from it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
Big business doesn't want to make these sort of mistakes twice though.......Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
This is what happens when a nation state pays lip service to safety and enviromental controls. The Chinese didn't care about this sort of thing and don't. The fact the reef was there is a just something they shrug their shoulders about. In the end, their government will shrug their shoulders, and I cannot see the Australian government getting any money out of the company for the clean up or ramifications.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
Chinese industry is rife with corners being cut, poor working conditions and the like. What would the workers do? Complain to the Government? When you have that mentality running businesses, you can see why maybe the crew of the freighter would be also run by a captain who wasn't too competant or paying attention.
Sure, but if each big business does it once it's more than enough to destroy Earth a dozen times.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
Hyperbole..and BS. The only thing that can destroy the earth a dozen times in one go is nuclear weapons, which the last time I checked, were controlled by governments. In the case of Pakistan, a very shaky one who might be controlled tomorrow by a religious zealot. Like the one in Iran who is working on a nuke.Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
Big business has it in their interest to protect their world and their clientle and customers. You make more money by doing things right, than by screwing the people you sell to and the planet they live on. Of course...some people don't get that..but for the most part, business does get that...
Now according to the usa today the whole cleanup has had no long term effects on the spill and are seeking other measures to mget things under control.A waste of time and money not to mention the loss of life to the minrine life affected.The bouys just aren't doing what they had hoped thet'd do.
Funny.Quote:
Originally Posted by swoop
More reliable sources(Even the national Enquirer is more reliable than USA Today) have pointed out how the dispersant have worked. especially the dispersant being used by an ROV at the point of the leak
Last week it was suppose to have been covering the shoreline from Louisiana to Florida. As of today it has barely touched land.
I realize that being on the road all the time one doesn't get to a newsstand much.So this is the the I read. besides other than late games the sports and puzzels are always there.I have my laptop for anything I really am interested in checking out.Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
Prove it. Just claiming it means nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa
No, it is indeed good that you started this thread, if you didn't, someone else would have, possibly with more agenda-biased diatribe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Easy Drifter
And yes, I think Obama was let off easy from the mainstream media, with exception to Bill Maher (as Mark In Oshawa pointed out). Sooner or later folks, particularly Hollyweird types and Left-friendly media are going to have to accept the fact that Obama doesn't walk on water, much less oil for that matter.
Bush wasn't without flaws either during his tenure, nevertheless the press could do itself a favor and not get caught up on one-sided issues so much that they alienate the public's respect as a result.
Anyways, as I believe ioan mentioned earlier, it is a environmental/ecological disaster with ramifications to come. If anyone doubts that then I would suggest that they follow up on how folks in Alaska were affected by the Exxon-Valdez disaster. Yes, some natural wildlife has returned, but others have vanished from the area since then.
Exactly. Human nature is too predictable with its' flaws.Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
As indicated by BP's history:
http://www.propublica.org/article/bp...-to-gulf-spill
You prove it.. you made the ridiculous assertion. You assert that Big Business could destroy the world 8 times over. I can prove nukes can do so....I think only an idiot would deny that, but I am waiting to see how General Motors, Airbus Industrie and Tata are going to make the world a barren wasteland in the next 10 years...Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
First of all I said it can do it more than a dozen of time, not eight times and it was a hyperbole as you yourself mentioned, so I am having a hard time to understand how you can prove a hyperbole right or wrong given that it is a figure of style, that's why I asked you to prove it. And if you don't believe that big business are destroying life on Earth than you needn't look further than the Gulf of Mexico.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa