Donkey of the race

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Originally Posted by Malllen

20 laps behind a Toro Rosso today wasn't exactly impressive.

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All this is, is making it more clear how just how hard it is to get the car to perform when trailing behind. A car trailing another, loses so much down force that it is extremely difficult to overtake, and when you do get close enough, you better pray that no one in front brakes harder or earlier than they should, or you have the incident like Webber and Hamilton.

Alonso couldn't over take Massa, Schumacher couldn't over take Algeursuari,
Hamilton couldn't get past Alonso....

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Originally Posted by ST205GT4

Webber. Although whilst all of the driving mistakes where his fault, he wasn't helped by being left to hang out to dry with the first set of tyre changes. That put him back in the pack having to try and get past people, when he'd already managed to get himself behind Vettel after his poor start.

I have to say after today's performance I've lost any belief that Mark can ever really be a contender. I'm sure he'll win a race or two this year as the Red Bull is obviously a rocket, but that will be about it.

Feel sorry for Vettel. He's being severely let down by his equipment thus far. When's his contract up at RBR?

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Sorry, Webber was/never will be a contender.

Good driver, yes, potential champion, no, sorry.

As for today's race - Donkey by a long margin

WT

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Originally Posted by AJP

All this is, is making it more clear how just how hard it is to get the car to perform when trailing behind. A car trailing another, loses so much down force that it is extremely difficult to overtake, and when you do get close enough, you better pray that no one in front brakes harder or earlier than they should, or you have the incident like Webber and Hamilton.

Alonso couldn't over take Massa, Schumacher couldn't over take Algeursuari,
Hamilton couldn't get past Alonso....

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Agree. The wet start masked the continuing problem of inability to pass the car in front.

Hamilton was over a second a lap quicker than either Kubica and Alonso and couldn't touch either, and he isn't shy of passing is he?

WT

Mad Max Webber which I think was pee'd off at hamilton passing him earlier he didn't want him being in front at his home race
what an "Eee-orrr"

I would have to go for Mark Webber, the crash at the end was entirely avoidable and completely his fault.
Red Bull strategy was also pretty dodgy today, they stayed on the wet tyres too long (almost costing Vettel his lead to Button) and Webber should not have needed that second stop. Same with the person at McLaren who thought bringing Lewis Hamilton into the pits was a good idea.

i'm not convinced - i think Hamilton would have done Alonso on the exit if he hadn't been taken out by Webber. Watch the replay - Rosberg had enough of a run to nearly draw alongside Alonso and he was 2 cars back, Hamilton was just in the process of cutting back inside Alonso, who had locked a brake and went quite wide trying to retain position.

if webber had been a little more patient i think both he and Hamlton would have done Alonso before the next corner

webber. was lightning quick in parts and yet in others, scrappy and his punt on hamilton was blindingly silly. stupid boy! :D

It's a three-way tie between Alonso's first corner squeeze on Button, the Sauber team's inability to keep a front wing on that led to a nasty accident, and Webber's boneheaded move on Hamilton.

Webbo this time. Way too many mistakes, and plowing into Hamilton out of nowhere was really silly. Hamilton gets honorable mention for lambasting his team publicly on the radio! Wtf?

Webber yet again,i just dont understand why red bull stick with him.

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Originally Posted by jeffmr2

Webber yet again,i just dont understand why red bull stick with him.

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He had a shocker today, no question.

But don't be so quick to throw him under the bus. :\

The donkey of the weekend (if indeed a car part can be a donkey) is the Sauber front wing, which nearly ended up killing Kobayashi, Hulkenburg and Buemi.

As for the race, Alonso for probably causing the first cornercrash, even though he drove a great race, Mercedes for stopping Schumacher again, forcing him to have to come through from the back two or three times, and Hamilton for being a whiner.

Webber gets half an ass for misjudging the incident with Hamilton when he could have probably passed both the cars in front of him with a little bit of patience.

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Originally Posted by Koz

Webber the dumb ****.

I'll add Hamilton to the list for being a little b*tch.

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Could not have said it better myself :D

I would also add that Hamilton did not drive well at all either. Maybe he is being pysched out by Jense?! :eek:

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Originally Posted by woody2goody

The donkey of the weekend (if indeed a car part can be a donkey) is the Sauber front wing, which nearly ended up killing Kobayashi, Hulkenburg and Buemi.

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BUT - de la Rosa has noit had the problems.

It suggests that Kobayashi is part of the problem. We know that he has a tendency to be a wild driver and maybe he is just out of his depth in F1.

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Originally Posted by maximilian

Webbo this time. Way too many mistakes, and plowing into Hamilton out of nowhere was really silly. Hamilton gets honorable mention for lambasting his team publicly on the radio! Wtf?

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Webber did make errors today and is one of the "donkeys", but at racing speed Hamilton slowed suddenly because of trying overtake Alonso - it was not Webber's fault in that accident.

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Originally Posted by Saint Devote

BUT - de la Rosa has noit had the problems.

It suggests that Kobayashi is part of the problem. We know that he has a tendency to be a wild driver and maybe he is just out of his depth in F1.

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Well he did hit the cone in practice which may or may not have contributed to the failure he had in that particular session, but it looked like a very similar failure, which, to me at least, didn't look like it was driver-caused. Kobayashi didn't know what happened himself. I would reckon he would have owned up if he had made a mistake, and thinking back, I don't think he hit anyone at the start.

I agree, Pedro has not had the problems, but maybe that's because there's nothing wrong with his car? I thought Pedro drove well today by the way, as did Alguersuari, but both just couldn't keep Schumi behind.

Webber. Period
And not their faults really, but both Trulli not being able to start and Kobayashi causing havoc in first lap deserve an honorable mention for me.

As of second round, the Japanese driver takes an early lead as the fool of the season given the rules I wrote at the beginning, having retired from both races with mechanical failures, creating and accident with yellow flags, etc...
http://www.f1fools.com

Why does this thread even exist? It could be re-titled the "Mark Webber f***s up the Aussie GP Thread" :D :D

What I find funny is that Mark is generally one of the drivers who will make a big fuss about one of the young'uns like Kobayashi making a stupid move. That pass on Hamilton was never on and it was just all kinds of stupid. Add to that a number of other silly errors and there is no real contest for Donkey.

I find it amazing that Saint Devote thinks that accident wasn't Mark's fault, he wouldn't have made that corner if the track was clear, he just braked far too late when there was never going to be a gap to exploit. It says a lot that he couldn't even make it a wheel to wheel crash. Stupid move by someone who nearly always has a stupid time at Melbourne.

As far as the top ten, I was very impressed with each driver's skill as well as bravado. On a street circuit, with walls an less run-off, things can go pear-shaped in a blink of an eye. Throw in changeable conditions and I'm inclined not to hand out any donkeys.

It was a shame to see so many drivers get taken out through no fault of their own early on. I felt especially bad for Trulli's DNS. I would've like to have seen all 24 on the circuit in the first 20 laps before conditions stabilized.

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Originally Posted by Saint Devote

Webber did make errors today and is one of the "donkeys", but at racing speed Hamilton slowed suddenly because of trying overtake Alonso - it was not Webber's fault in that accident.

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Yeah, you ran into the back of someone who brakes for a CORNER and you arent at fault.

I would love to live in your "reality" for a day, that would be fun

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Originally Posted by ST205GT4

Obviously. However, instead of falling asleep at the wheel RBR management should have had Vettel in the same lap as the rest of the field, not a lap later. And therefore Mark two laps later.

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In that case why didn't Mark asked to pit before Vettel?!
As far as I know both team and driver take a decision.

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Originally Posted by Hawkmoon

The BBC pitlane reporter said Ferrari had to hold Massa up because they couldn't release him into traffic. That's bad luck and nothing to do with poor performance by the crew. With that many cars in the pitlane it was a lottery as to when the car could be released.

Alonso was faster than Massa all weekend. If Ferrari moved him ahead of Massa straight after the stops then I think Alonso would have a better shot at Kubica because he was clearly happier with the car.

I'm not upset that they didn't pull team orders, it's too early in the season for that but it's hard to argue that Alonso wouldn't have had a better shot at winning than Massa.

I acknowledged it was Webber's fault. I just don't think it was that bad.

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Fair enough, except Alonso winning it, as he didn't show the pace needed for that. 2nd was possible though.

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Originally Posted by Malllen

Not slagging. He has merely been underwhelming thus far in his comeback.

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I am rather happy with how he did until now. I fail to see why those who never really liked the guy are now disappointed.

Webber.

And for those who need more evidence to bash MS, how about the fact that he should have gotten himself clear of alonso's spin out on the first lap....or he might have won.... :rolleyes: :rotflmao:

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Originally Posted by ioan

I am rather happy with how he did until now. I fail to see why those who never really liked the guy are now disappointed.

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I'm not going to bash Schumacher, because I think he's done well so far.

Plus, today, he was just in the wrong place at the wrong time, especially with Fernando failing to see he had cars on either side of him.

Michael's race was ruined the moment Button and Alonso collided.

And I hate this 'he was stuck behind a Toro Rosso so he must be s**t' mentality - Alguersuari drove a really good race today, dominated Buemi all weekend pretty much, and almost scored his first points in the race. And besides, Michael passed both he and de la Rosa near the end, so passing was not ridiculously hard.

It says to me that for the most part, the Mercedes was not quick enough in the right parts of the track in order to overtake. For example, Michael might have been quick in sector 2, but may not have been able to get close enough in sector 1 to make the pass. Might have been the other way round.

It also says that we should be giving credit to the young Spaniard, only in I believe his 10th Grand Prix, who was defending valiantly against a man with 240 GPs more experience and a quicker car. It wasn't necessarily anything Michael wasn't doing right.

Also, Michael wasn't helped by what was in my opinion a poor pit strategy. If the strategy had've been better, he wouldn't have had to pass Alguersuari twice, and would possibly have beaten Liuzzi.

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Originally Posted by ioan

I am rather happy with how he did until now. I fail to see why those who never really liked the guy are now disappointed.

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Pacewise he is OK, but in wheel to wheel battles he is very rusty IMO and I hope that he will improve. To be beaten by Barbie boy is not ideal IMO.

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Originally Posted by woody2goody

Also, Michael wasn't helped by what was in my opinion a poor pit strategy.

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This is worrying too, I expect the best from Ross, although he made some weird calls in 2005, when the car was weak, too.

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Originally Posted by AJP

All this is, is making it more clear how just how hard it is to get the car to perform when trailing behind. A car trailing another, loses so much down force that it is extremely difficult to overtake, and when you do get close enough, you better pray that no one in front brakes harder or earlier than they should, or you have the incident like Webber and Hamilton.

Alonso couldn't over take Massa, Schumacher couldn't over take Algeursuari,
Hamilton couldn't get past Alonso....

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Spot on. Still people believe it is down to the tracks.

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Originally Posted by F1boat

Pacewise he is OK, but in wheel to wheel battles he is very rusty IMO and I hope that he will improve. To be beaten by Barbie boy is not ideal IMO.

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He had a great start and was leading Barbie when Fernando decided to destroy his race. Given how Rosberg is rather lackluster in wet conditions I have no doubts MS would have finished ahead of him today if not for Alonso's mistake.

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Originally Posted by woody2goody

Michael passed both he and de la Rosa near the end, so passing was not ridiculously hard.

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And only MS managed to make passes stick when the track was dry, so he's on the right path IMO.

And still some tracks like Melbourne and Spa produce very nice races while other do so more rarely.

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Originally Posted by ioan

Spot on. Still people believe it is down to the tracks.

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Well that can be a cause definitely, but in this case, just because cars are close together doesn't mean there should be overtaking all the time. This reminds me a bit of Bernoldi and Coulthard at Monaco in 2001 I think - The Arrows driver kept Coulthard behind him for 40-odd laps, and yet very few people gave him compliments about his driving, they complained at Coulthard for not getting by. it is not always a one-way street.

Alonso and Massa were always fairly close to Kubica, but not ONCE did I see Felipe lining up a pass, or attempt one even.

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Originally Posted by ioan

And only MS managed to make passes stick when the track was dry, so he's on the right path IMO.

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Well, not only him, but you're right, in essence it wasn't extremely difficult to pass on the dry track.

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Originally Posted by ioan

And only MS managed to make passes stick when the track was dry, so he's on the right path IMO.

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With Jaime it was very nice move, Pedro has destroyed his tyres. But still I hope for more in Brazil.

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Originally Posted by Hawkmoon

I think people are being a little harsh on Webber for the incident with Hamilton. The McLaren was practically stopped when they collided. It was still Webber's fault but I've seen a lot worse.

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not really check the replays, he did not run into the back of hamilton,. he tried to make a pass where there was no room and cut inside of hamilton and took both of them out

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Originally Posted by F1boat

And still some tracks like Melbourne and Spa produce very nice races while other do so more rarely.

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That's just a subjective impression. All tracks produced both interesting and boring races.

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Originally Posted by ioan

That's just a subjective impression. All tracks produced both interesting and boring races.

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Matter of opinion, to me Brazil, Oz and Belgium usually produce better races.

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Originally Posted by Saint Devote

I would also add that Hamilton did not drive well at all either. Maybe he is being pysched out by Jense?! :eek:

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once again proving that you did not watch the race :down:

Hamilton drove outstanding today and if not called in for a 2nd pit stop would probably be 2nd coming from 11th on the girds. He passed your man Button at the start , made up 5 places and was on a tear all race long. I am not sure what you think "driving well" means, because if a driver can take another pitstop and still close down a 24 second gap to alonso with a real chance of passing them then you certainly don't understand the concept of driving an F1 car.

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Originally Posted by woody2goody

Alonso and Massa were always fairly close to Kubica, but not ONCE did I see Felipe lining up a pass, or attempt one even.

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Did you read what I posted? It is almost impossible to pass in normal conditions without the guy in front making a mistake.

Once you get within 1 second of the car in front you lose so much downforce that you can not go through the turns as fast as the car you are trying to overtake, which means that you have no chances down the straights. Lewis with the super duper Mercedes engine and their F-duct system couldn't pass Kubica on the straights because he wasn't close enough through the corner preceding the straight.

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Originally Posted by Saint Devote

Webber did make errors today and is one of the "donkeys", but at racing speed Hamilton slowed suddenly because of trying overtake Alonso - it was not Webber's fault in that accident.

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lol, high comedy

please go watch that race again and understand what happened before making ill informed statements. Webber saw exactly what was going on and tried to capitalize by making a move he should not have. He took himslef and Hamilton out in the process.Even Webber acknowledged his mistake and issued an apology. But I guess the saint knows best. lol