What a boring race

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Originally Posted by tamburello

I heard Whitmarsh say that and thought it was a crap idea. Mandating things is not the solution.

A broader range of compounds and more choice of compounds, a la the 80's, and the ability to cross-match them (for those of you old enough, A compounds on the rear, B on the left and C on the right was a good Alain Prost set-up, if I recall) would make it much more interesting.

Mandatory anything is against the idea of racing and ruins the chances of different strategies.

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+1

It was interesting back then with as you say Prost on different compounds round the car and Senna (IIRC) usually one compound all round.

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Originally Posted by wedge

:up:

At least after a third of the race/first pit window you couldn't make a good prediction for the finish.

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Really? Apart from Vettel's exhaust nothing changed.

The whole race was dull, dull, dull. No strategy, no unknown what fuel is everybody running at the start, no drama from the pitstops.

Last season teams had to choose between going for pole and early stop, that has disappeared.

Last season teams could try to do something different to shake the order up.

Last season there were bigger differences between tyres, no-one had problems this year in what were relatively challenging conditions

Don't blame the circuit - it is the FACT that similar cars cannot get close and overtake.

I was really excited about this season, but if it is all going to be like this then I will be outside doing the gardening on Sundays soon.

Hope we have quite a few wet-dry races...................

WT

I lost interest after about 10 laps and switched over to a repeat of the Simpsons on Sky1- I may have seen it hundreds of times before but it was more entertaining

with or without refuelling this would have been a snoozefest anyway- it always is at Bahrain- at least I didn't pay money to watch it

F1 used to be ok pre refuelling through 80's and early 90's- I remember some great races when tyres were more marginal- I think that's what they've got to look at again- and make a concerted effort to look at aero- I saw a bit of the GP2 race- and it was alot more entertaining

mandatory pit stops are not the way to go

Am I the only one who thought this race was OK? classic? absolutely not, but i wouldnt say it was a snore fest.

some good battles throughout the field even if the car behind didnt always eventually catch the guy in front, guys with problems at the start coming through the pack, some good overtaking in the midfield, Lotus running well and an interesting 3 way battle at the front which i thought was hotting up until vettel's problem ultimately sacrificed him. Certainly better than some of the rubbish we went through last year, a generally interesting race. Maybe im insane though.

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Originally Posted by UltimateDanGTR

Am I the only one who thought this race was OK? classic? absolutely not, but i wouldnt say it was a snore fest.

some good battles throughout the field even if the car behind didnt always eventually catch the guy in front, guys with problems at the start coming through the pack, some good overtaking in the midfield, Lotus running well and an interesting 3 way battle at the front which i thought was hotting up until vettel's problem ultimately sacrificed him. Certainly better than some of the rubbish we went through last year, a generally interesting race. Maybe im insane though.

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I agree - I don't think it was any more boring than last year's Bahrain GP. (Or the majority of dry races for that matter.) But people are dissapointed because this season was hyped up. It is interesting how everybody blames something different (track, no refuelling, aerodynamics, tyres). This would deserve a poll.

i maintain its all down to the massive diffusers, if they can't get anywhere near each other there will be no passing, simples

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Originally Posted by N. Jones

I agree but I blame the track more than anything else.

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Why?
It gives more overtaking opportunities than many other tracks!
Just because it is located in an Muslim country you lot shouldn't blame it for the stupid rules in F1.

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Originally Posted by Robinho

i maintain its all down to the massive diffusers, if they can't get anywhere near each other there will be no passing, simples

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Exactly, but let's thank the FIA for allowing double and triple decked diffusers last season just for the sake of dividing the teams, all this after introducing rules that were meant to reduce downforce levels by 50%.

Here in Spain some crazy journalist praised Ferrari´s diffuser because it was designed not only to add downforce to your car, but also to f*ck up the one behind you. What´s more interesting, the same journalist said F1 needed less aero in order to get more overtaking.

The thing is he can be right in both cases... Why GP2 is interesting even in Montmeló? Why don´t they really reduce aero efficiency, starting with having banned the DD´s this season? Now we have DTM-like diffusers, and cars built arount them.

That´s one of the main ingredients of the recipe of "Boredom-At-Bahrein", the other ones being a cup of B-Oring Track and a bit of Conservative Chicken Fear.

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Originally Posted by ioan

Exactly, but let's thank the FIA for allowing double and triple decked diffusers last season just for the sake of dividing the teams.

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i understand them letting them keep them last year - innovation to exploit a loophole in the rules i think is fair enough, but i do think they should have closed that loophole in the interpretation for this year, as they've all designed the cars around the diffusers now and they are more powerful than ever. it looks to me that we're back to the point where unless your 2 secs a lap quicker than the guy in front you can't get closer than 1.5sec.

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Originally Posted by Garry Walker

I found no suitable thread for this to be posted in. I had an opinion and I decided to voice it, you know, like when people talk to you and say "id like fries with that burger"

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Like this one would not have sufficed:

http://www.motorsportforums.com/foru...d.php?t=137258

Oh but then your headline of "What a boring race" would not have been so prominent. What a bore.

Gary

Yes, but F-1.com wants you to know that you're wrong:

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And the general verdict is that the ban of refuelling, while creating a slow-burn effect initially, made the racing much more exciting.

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http://www.formula1.com/news/headlin...0/3/10531.html

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Originally Posted by garyshell

Like this one would not have sufficed:

http://www.motorsportforums.com/foru...d.php?t=137258

Oh but then your headline of "What a boring race" would not have been so prominent. What a bore.

Gary

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Oh FFS he started a thread, if you want I can call a waaaaaaambulance for you. If you don't like it don't read it.

What they need to do is

-Get rid of the stupid rule making the top 10 start on the tyres they qualified on
-Get rid of the even more stupid rule having two sets of tyres that need to be used in one race (so people can run non-stop if they want)
-Have the tyre supplier bring their entire inventory of tyres from very hard to very soft just like they used to. Allow the teams to run what they want, when they want it, at any point during the race.

As for the problems with overtaking due to aerodynamics and such, well no amount of silly mickey mouse regulations will fix that, unless they decide to go the whole hog and script the races WWF-style (which is what some people seem to want). Watch tin-tops or Formula Ford for that.

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Originally Posted by UltimateDanGTR

Am I the only one who thought this race was OK? classic? absolutely not, but i wouldnt say it was a snore fest.

some good battles throughout the field even if the car behind didnt always eventually catch the guy in front, guys with problems at the start coming through the pack, some good overtaking in the midfield, Lotus running well and an interesting 3 way battle at the front which i thought was hotting up until vettel's problem ultimately sacrificed him. Certainly better than some of the rubbish we went through last year, a generally interesting race. Maybe im insane though.

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Yeah it was ok - no better than ok but not necessarily a borefest.

to quote from tinchote

stupid rules , stupid consequences

Honestly I enjoyed the race very much, but because Ferrari won. Without Vettel's problems, I would probably have disappointed despite the interesting duel between the German and Alonso.

that was the most boringist race I have ever seen imho

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Originally Posted by K-Pu

Here in Spain some crazy journalist praised Ferrari´s diffuser because it was designed not only to add downforce to your car, but also to f*ck up the one behind you. What´s more interesting, the same journalist said F1 needed less aero in order to get more overtaking.

The thing is he can be right in both cases... Why GP2 is interesting even in Montmeló? Why don´t they really reduce aero efficiency, starting with having banned the DD´s this season? Now we have DTM-like diffusers, and cars built arount them.

That´s one of the main ingredients of the recipe of "Boredom-At-Bahrein", the other ones being a cup of B-Oring Track and a bit of Conservative Chicken Fear.

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Yes, it seems that the latest design goal is no longer to merely produce more downforce but to create turbulence designed to act in such a manner as to make it very difficult to pass.....

I wonder about some of those winglets, and if they are really helping handling or downforce, but just creating more turbulence.

Appearently, the venturi tunnels under the IRL cars are less effected by turbulence than are the wings, but at same time, do not produce the turbulence in their wake anywhere close to the DD. :vader:



Result:

This race was totally BORING after lap 2 or 3, and even the Vettel broken pipe, did not add any excitment since we all knew it was only a question of time before he was passed....and even those passes were like..... boring. :(

Take that busted pipe away, and there was not any point to watching the rest of race, unless you are such a die hard fan of a particular driver like Freddie, Lewis, yadada, that you just had to watch the rest of the race to see if they got lucky because somebody broke down in front and they picked up a spot...or even a win.....whoopie...I guess :rolleyes:

Thank God for my old VCR so I do not waste two hours of my life for nothing....

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Originally Posted by markabilly

Yes, it seems that the latest design goal is no longer to merely produce more downforce but to create turbulence designed to act in such a manner as to make it very difficult to pass.....

I wonder about some of those winglets, and if they are really helping handling or downforce, but just creating more turbulence.

Appearently, the venturi tunnels under the IRL cars are less effected by turbulence than are the wings, but at same time, do not produce the turbulence in their wake anywhere close to the DD. :vader:



Result:

This race was totally BORING after lap 2 or 3, and even the Vettel broken pipe, did not add any excitment since we all knew it was only a question of time before he was passed....and even those passes were like..... boring. :(

Take that busted pipe away, and there was not any point to watching the rest of race, unless you are such a die hard fan of a particular driver like Freddie, Lewis, yadada, that you just had to watch the rest of the race to see if they got lucky because somebody broke down in front and they picked up a spot...or even a win.....whoopie...I guess :rolleyes:

Thank God for my old VCR so I do not waste two hours of my life for nothing....

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Agreed. Not to sound like a broken record but I have mentioned the turbulence in the past and said that the FIA should mandate that the air a certain distance past the car is laminar, ie not turbulent

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Originally Posted by Robinho

i maintain its all down to the massive diffusers, if they can't get anywhere near each other there will be no passing, simples

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The diffusers are only a part of it, and not necessarily the major part. The aerodynamicists reckon that for a given amount of downforce, under-body structures produce a quarter of the turbulence that wings produce. They'd do better to cut downforce by restricting wings. However it's done, if we want to see a lot more overtaking then they need to be cutting downforce by at least a half, probably more. Minor tweaks to diffusers or wings aren't going to do that.

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Originally Posted by Garry Walker

tyres? I am more angry about the refuelling ban.

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me too. As I said a while back
http://www.motorsportforums.com/foru...748#post765748

this change has actually made GP racing worse

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Originally Posted by DexDexter

Mark my words, refuelling will return pretty soon.

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I would not discount that because the drivers did begin to pick up the pace and push as the cars became light again.

Maybe modern grand prix racing does not work when cars are heavy and maybe it has become more of a team involvement sport than it was.

It would be good if there were a greater range of tyres, so you could go very hard and try to non stop. Or softer and 1 stop or even really soft for a 2 stop race with the aim of going so fast that you can try to get past anyone looking after tyres on a longer run

Just what I would like to see.

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Originally Posted by Saint Devote

I would not discount that because the drivers did begin to pick up the pace and push as the cars became light again.

Maybe modern grand prix racing does not work when cars are heavy and maybe it has become more of a team involvement sport than it was.

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I found the whole race to be terrible. Cars that obviously could go faster couldn't because of the heavy fuel load, then once the fuel loads dropped, cars could not go faster because of degrading tyres and having to save/manage the fuel to the end of the race. It was just terrible to watch really and fans, drivers and the FIA can't really be happy about this. I guarantee you that by 20100 there will be refueling, and low fuel qualy runs as well making for a prp0eore F1 race where teams "actually" become more involved with varying strategies, fast qualy and a real battles on the track.

Btw i was thinking that some teams would try to run with half tanks, get their 2-3 seconds per lap advantage, pull out like 40 seconds, then come into the pits and into the garage, refuel and come back out on the track and fly to the end. Even with maybe another regular pit stop to change tires.

The way I calculated it out for Bahrain, they would loose about 60-75 seconds in the pits (with the slower fuel rigs and having to turn of the engine) but come in with a 40-45 second advantage (if not more) take a net loss of about 25-30 seconds in the pits, but go out with once again a 2-3 second per lap advantage which could see them reel in the other cars and maybe steel a top 5 position. just thinking outlandish strategy ;)

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Originally Posted by aki13

It would be good if there were a greater range of tyres, so you could go very hard and try to non stop. Or softer and 1 stop or even really soft for a 2 stop race with the aim of going so fast that you can try to get past anyone looking after tyres on a longer run

Just what I would like to see.

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Me 2! It would allow the drivers to be themselves - Jenson almost certainly would pick hard and few stops and Lewis would go like stink on vitual Quali rubber on a 2/3 stop. It would be awesome!

The refulelling ban made the race boring, and BTW Bahrain is a boring track anyway.

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Originally Posted by Sonic

Me 2! It would allow the drivers to be themselves - Jenson almost certainly would pick hard and few stops and Lewis would go like stink on vitual Quali rubber on a 2/3 stop. It would be awesome!

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Yep completly agree

We now just need to write the 2011 rules and all will be OK :p :

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Originally Posted by aki13

Yep completly agree

We now just need to write the 2011 rules and all will be OK :p :

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Perhaps if enough of us petition the FIA they'll listen! That'll be the day :D

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Originally Posted by Sonic

Perhaps if enough of us petition the FIA they'll listen! That'll be the day :D

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That would be a true Fantasy F1.

I emphasis the Fantasy :D

there was some talk a few years back about a dedicated overtaking lane
fia need to give it a try they need to do something to help in overtaking

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Originally Posted by harsha

to quote from tinchote

stupid rules , stupid consequences

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Indeed :D

Besides all the things that were mentioned above, I would also add the stupid "rev limiter" thing. That took a huge variable off the races, with an almost insane reliability and no power differences between cars.

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Originally Posted by thunderbolt

there was some talk a few years back about a dedicated overtaking lane
fia need to give it a try they need to do something to help in overtaking

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No thanks, that isn't racing anymore.

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Originally Posted by Wasted Talent

Really? Apart from Vettel's exhaust nothing changed.

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Alonso was cutting into Vettel's lead about 2/3 distance.

Had we had refuelling Vettel would've ran off into the distance.

James Allen's solution:

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http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2010/0...-is-an-answer/

My proposal would be more simple than that and would not require unanimous agreement. It is for Bridgestone to bring tyres which are closer together in performance, rather than two steps apart as at present. This was done last season and it improved things, but now they have gone back to bringing super soft and medium to the first race. Because the soft is so much faster, around 6/10ths and degrades more quickly, it will always be the qualifying tyre, which then leads to an early first pit stop for the medium, which is the better race tyre.

With tyres that are closer together, the performance difference is less and so are the wear rates and it is more attractive to try a different tactic. I’ve asked quite a few engineers tonight and they agree that it would be a step in the right direction without disadvantaging anyone.

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Overtaking lanes :laugh:

I must say that I was a little disappointed by today's race. It just didn't have the air of excitement I was looking forward to.

I was a bit disappointed that Michael Schumacher didn't do a bit better, but he is showing signs of improvement, so that's okay I suppose. I was a bit disappointed with the McLaren, but Lewis Hamilton seemed to make the best of it. I was also disappointed with Jenson Button's performance. I hope there are some improvements there very soon. I was also disappointed in my third choice for a win (Sebastian Vettel) when his car played up.

Well done to Fernando Alonso for his win. He's not my favourite driver, but he's damned good, so all credit to him. Good to see Felipe Massa doing well too after last year's accident.

:-)

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Originally Posted by truefan72

I found the whole race to be terrible. Cars that obviously could go faster couldn't because of the heavy fuel load, then once the fuel loads dropped, cars could not go faster because of degrading tyres and having to save/manage the fuel to the end of the race. It was just terrible to watch really and fans, drivers and the FIA can't really be happy about this. I guarantee you that by 20100 there will be refueling, and low fuel qualy runs as well making for a prp0eore F1 race where teams "actually" become more involved with varying strategies, fast qualy and a real battles on the track.

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By 20100? Is that not a wee bit too long laddie! :D

I think we should wait until the after Shanghai to make final judgement. I remember how people reacted negatively after the first time Gordon Murray of Brabham back in 1983 - as I recall - introduced tyre stops and won.

I do dislike the having to use the same tyres to start the race as in qualifying - let the drivers just GO!

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Originally Posted by DexDexter

I don't understand how people didn't see this coming, I mean it was only about 15 years ago that we last had these endurance races. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: The only way the races are going to be exciting is if Bridgestone does something with the compounds.

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yes I am old enough to remember those races and said the refueling ban was ludicrous when it was first announced. I can;t recall a race in recent memory that was as dull as this race was. yeah,sector 2 is not ideal, but honestly if cars were lighter and faster, you would have seen some overtaking here. What we got will not be acceptable for the next 8 months

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Originally Posted by Saint Devote

By 20100? Is that not a wee bit too long laddie! :D

I think we should wait until the after Shanghai to make final judgement. I remember how people reacted negatively after the first time Gordon Murray of Brabham back in 1983 - as I recall - introduced tyre stops and won.

I do dislike the having to use the same tyres to start the race as in qualifying - let the drivers just GO!

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sorry meant to say 2011, brain got ahead of my typing :|