Well, we will see. They may sell the factory team and remain as engine suppliers.Quote:
Originally Posted by veeten
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Well, we will see. They may sell the factory team and remain as engine suppliers.Quote:
Originally Posted by veeten
i will sit on the fence on whether renault will quit or not, i have no idea on that.
but i do believe renault MUST stay in F1. they are a great part of the sport, despite the farce of singapore 08. Honda and Toyota-they quit because they had never been champions and they weren;t doing good enough. BMW were rising to the forefront before a tough year this year was used as an excuse to quit. quite frankly that one was stupid but the other 2 were understandable.
Renault are great in Formula 1, with the best engines in the mid 90s, and then double world champions in 05 and 06. DOUBLE WORLD CHAMPIONS. renault have the know how and pedigree to win, they've proved that, and IMO, quitting F1 would be pointless.
IF Renault is out four engines is not enough for 12 teams.
Yes it is..simple maths that's 3 per supplier and next season they're allowed to supply 4 each. I doubt Renault will pull out entirely but as a fully fledged team I think it could be over for them - no sign of sponsors aside from Total. Maybe engine supply is the best way forward using the Mercedes model to part own a team?
Renault as an engine supplier is not a bad way to go, just look at Mercedes.
Partners with one team, supplying two others, and at times all three teams were representied at the front of the grid. Not bad.
If Ghosn decides on this, then I have no problems. :)
I read Ghosn's statement as meaning -Quote:
Originally Posted by F1boat
"If we don't get any sponsors who will pay for the team in the next few weeks, au revoir, because we are not willing to pay all ourselves"
I hope they donīt quit, but Mr. Goshn is quite fond on sacking people. In fact, he resurrected Nissan by booting A LOT of people, and now heīs trying to do the same with Renault. So if the F1 team is not successful or profitable, bye bye F1 and heīll never think about it again because thereīs a bigger fish to fry (AKA money).
Anyway, Renault has had a more than miserable year, Alonso has left the team and they have no sponsors... Things do not look good for them, but on the other hand they have signed Kubica, and theyīre going to supply Red Bull with engines, and that should make them stay where they are.
Anyway, being a manufacturer team has its "particular features", notably that one of a corporation directing the team for some thousands kilometres away from the track (and from the real world) and a nice profit agenda to meet, and it could be time for the corporation to take command over Renault, who until now has been more a "normal team" than a enterprise.
question; do you think renault would fully design next years car and then sell the team to an outsider, with the 2010 cars and engines being supplied, sort of a la honda-brawn?
if renault do decide to quit, i hope they do that.
Good luck to him, the French will have his head on plate if he dares to say something about sacking a lot of people.Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Pu
Anyway Renault as an automotive manufacturer isn't in such a bad shape compared to 90% of their counterparts.
Enter Nelson Sr. Now, Jr will get to drive next year. :p :Quote:
Originally Posted by tamburello
i think it would be better for a team to stay in the sport until they sell the team if you go by what they did to honda and class brawn gp as a new entrant
will this move sauber f1 up to the 13th team and put what ever team that buys toyota team as 14th ( who would by the team after what they did with bmw knowing that there may not be a spot on the grid for them)
Here's hoping someone would actually buy them....Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderbolt
Ghosn got to the head of Renault specifically by cutting costs, shutting down entire factories. He did the same at Nissan. The French punished him by making him CEO.Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
Renault might still need a serious bailout from the French government, their sales are ok at the mo because of all the trade in subsidies in the EU, when those stop their sales may fall again. It would not look good to be seen wasting money on F1 whilst receiving government handouts. Add to that Piquetgate and Renault is under intense pressure to drop F1, especially as all the redundancies can be made where its easier to sack people, the UK.
I presume if Toyota finds a buyer then as they have already signed up to the Concorde agreement they'd still stay 13th and BMW would still find itself shut out.Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderbolt
My guess is that Renault will broker a deal (get out clause from the Concorde agreement) by staying as a high profile engine builder, supplying a few teams, maybe Meccachrome badges on second tier teams, and that Prodrive pick up the race team using Renault engines.
I bet none of the Nissan workers were French and they were probably not working in France either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylan H
So they will probably need to sack people somewhere else than in France.
Renault is French ioan. He sacked Renault staff. Many of them were French, living in France and all.Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
Ghosn is a Renault man, why do you think he's called Le Costcutter and not Costcutter-san?
In fact, Goshn is closing (or trying to close) 3 factories in France, and that is a lot of jobs. What it is even more puzzling, heīs doing it in France while he tries to open factories in other countries, and what I find most strange is that he closes factories in France, but maintains the one we have here in Valladolid when he has repeated again and again that Renault is not interested on having it here.Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
What is going on then? Easy. Here in Spain politicians have the strange hobby of cracking under the pressure of big enterprises, and if they start saying they want to leave, in no time there will appear some politician giving them an absurd amount of money to "convince" them. And thatīs how Renault is staying here, because the local government bribes, sorry, carries hard negotiations with Renault. In France they donīt seem to be doing the same, and Renault should have some consideration with their facilities in their home country...
But in the end... whatīs more important? Mr. Goshn has no doubt: Profit, profit and profit. If he has to sack some thousand people in France just to move some factories to a cheaper place or maintain them just because that means free cash heīll promptly do it and there will be not few people who thint that is the correct decission.
Conclussion: Mr Goshn will do whatever he thinks more convenient, no matter what people could think, because these freshly-unemployed rabble are quite troublesome (he must think, or something like that).
Here in Spain we call him Recortator (Cut-ator or something like that, kind of play on words), and he cares nothing about anything except profit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylan H
Eastern Europe is the future of car production for the non BMW's, Mercedes and Audi's.Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Pu
The Fiat's coming out of the Tychy plant in Poland are well built and cheap labour means more profits.
Briatore has the know-how, not Renault.Quote:
Originally Posted by UltimateDanGTR
That they are postponing an announcement is a negative development in coporate terms because it usually contains frantic legal activity seeking an out from contractual agreemenents.
Robert Kubica should be on the hotline to Mclaren. Renault's days as a winning team even if they stay are done.
Teams come and go from f1 over time and they always will and others will replace them. Its natural and termed creative destruction.
We've got lotsa stuff coming out of China too. Don't know if there are any Renaults or what their quality is like.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
Really?! I thought they were Australian! :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylan H
Go figure I only lived 10 years in France. :\
I doubt they will let him increase the number of French chomeurs without a huge social movement and opposition of the politicians.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylan H
I'm really looking forward to see that happen given the fragil social climate in France because of the crisis.
Don't be so sure, has had a factory in Hungary for 10 years now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
Mercedes is also building one in Hungary.
How long will BMW and Porsche resist before going that route?
And especially how long before Eastern Europe will be considered to pricey and they'll move to western Asia?
Not very likely, but mainly because Ukraine has three borders (Ural, Afghanistan & the Middle East) and Blue has 16 armies in the Middle East and Afghanistan.Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
Grey could probably move some of it's pieces into Ural and that would stop Blue's continent bonus, but then again Blue is forced to turn in three cards because it has seven.
Blue is better off invading Southern Europe and then Egypt.
:rotflmao: What IN the hell you talking about? :rotflmao:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollo
:rotflmao: You are right - Your post after reading the post you are answering makes it hilarious!!Quote:
Originally Posted by N. Jones
Thanks!!!
Ioan, please learn a little about Ghosn and look more carefully into France's industrial relations. Your posts indicate you know little yet you talk as if you know all about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
I also find it interesting that you think that its easier or causes less trouble to sack people in Japan, the land of lifetime employment, than it is in France. I also find it interesting that you seem unaware that Ghosn has sacked lots of French people, is doing so right now and will continue to do so in the future.
Finally, do you think the French government cares more about Renault's wellbeing than it does about the employment prospects of a few thousand Frenchmen, particularly when it owns a stake in Renault itself and is seeking to reform employment regulations in France particularly with respect to making it easier for French companies to hire and sack staff? Sarkozy loves people like Ghosn, he'll let him do what he likes.
http://lauamangur.files.wordpress.co...ard-game-2.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Rollo
Absolutely brilliant board game. Love it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollo
8 games, 6 victories :)
I used to play this with my two daughters many, many years ago. Don't know where the game is now. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Bezza
http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/Quote:
Renault is working out a plan to leave Formula 1 before the start of next season, according to LEquipe newspaper in France.
A team has been charged by Renault president Carlos Ghosn with making a study into the possibility of striking a deal with Prodrives David Richards to take the team on.
My, how Dave Richards would laugh if despite Max's best efforts Prodrive arrive on the grid next year.
Renault linked to Prodrive sale
03/12/09 13:18
Renault is reportedly devising an exit plan from Formula One which could involve selling its Enstone facility to Prodrive. The French carmaker intends to remain an engine supplier to the new team.....
.....The report, written by Anne Giuntini, wife of former Renault engine boss Denis Chevrier, added that Richards' latest F1 plans involve the backing of a minor car manufacturer that is new to F1.....
.....Reportedly, Richards would relocate his entire Prodrive operation from Banbury to Enstone as part of the deal........
FULL STORY HERE:
http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headline...03131835.shtml
I'd welcome this if it happened, although something doesn't sit right about having Renault engines supplied to a team bearing an "Aston Martin" name. If this is the case it's probably best to just be Prodrive-Renault for the time being, then if in the future it becomes feasible to use an Aston Martin engine (whether an all new design, rebadged Cosworth or whatever), then by all means go with that.
Unless Renault want to sell their F1 engine operation too?
This is what we need........ more reputable teams and brands such as Prodrive, Aston Martin and say Lola, instead of operations such as Stefan GP, Qadbak or the mysterious Russian guy who is supposed to be interested in Renault.
I really hope this happens
Ferrari, McLaren, Lotus, Aston Martin and Mercedes all on the same grid!
Indeed V12 - Id imagine this would be the route they would go down for the reasons you mentionQuote:
Originally Posted by V12
Joe Saward of grandprix.com is writing on his blog that apparently the deal is done and that an announcement will be made by Renault and Prodrive later today!
http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2009/...o-buy-renault/
Makes business sense too as Prodrive wanted/needed to extend it's facilities but that was difficult at the current Banbury site. With Enstone they could pretty much keep all existing staff too, or split Prodrive over two sites...one for F1, one for rally/LMS.
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Originally Posted by Mark
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Originally Posted by veeten
Definately called this shot in the dark, didn't we?... :DQuote:
Originally Posted by F1boat