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Things may be different in Australia, but in the UK people have used the word paki to insult and demean Asians (not just people from Pakistan) to the point that it has become synonymous with abuse and prejudice.Quote:
Originally Posted by theugsquirrel
See what BBB says above. I agree with it. 'Paki' is simply not an acceptable word to use any more. 'Brit' is. I don't understand why anybody should have any difficulty with this. It's hardly an unnecessary hardship. If people want to say it, they should expect to be castigated. I would never use the word 'Paki'.Quote:
Originally Posted by theugsquirrel
OK so what if the word "paki" was used in a relaxed, joking-around, way? Would it be OK then, because clearly saying "Brit" in such a way is fine?Quote:
Originally Posted by BeansBeansBeans
These words have become offensive because of the aggression behind them - I agree with you there. I just think its a shame that everyone has to watch their mouths when they are not being aggressive or intending to cause offence.
I agree that using them in an offensive way is appalling - however on these grounds the word "Brit" is equal to "Paki" if used with the same amount of force and offence?
"Chinky" I believe is a perfectly legitimate term for a Chinese Takeaway, NOT to call a Chinese person! :)
Off-topic but you've just reminded me of one of my favourite bits from Alan Partridge.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bezza
Alan Can I say chinky?
Michael Aye, you're aalreet with that, 'cause it's a race of people, but it's also a food.
I love Partridge :p
If it's used in a genuinely satirical way, to make fun at those who consider it acceptable to use the word seriously, then I don't have a problem with it being heard. Otherwise, no.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bezza
I disagree, because 'Brit' is not an offensive word, whereas 'Paki' is. That's just the way it is. There is no equivalence between the two.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bezza
No. The connotations of the word Paki far outstrip those of Brit and years of being used as a derogatory term mean that it is offensive regardless of intent.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bezza
It is weird. People are trying to justify calling Chinese takeouts "Chinky".
A racial slur is a racial slur I thought. Political correctness is ugly, but I think people know when they refer to someone as a Paki or a Chinese food take out as a "Chinkey" know that the ethnic group on the receiving end may not like it.
Mind you, the Chinese dispatcher at my work makes jokes about eating cats all the time.....so having a sense of humour and place helps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BDunnell
Gawd you two are a bit clueless. That's exactly what he's saying. In Australia if they're playing Pakistan and the English in a 3 way series they're playing the Paki's and the Pom's. It has everything to do with use. Now of course I'm aware of the connotations Paki has here and I certainly wouldn't use it for fear of insulting someone.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeansBeansBeans
Bezza also has a point as well. What's the difference between Brit and Paki? Nothing in essence except for the fact that people say in hushed voices "ooh ye can't say that!" if you were to say Paki. Now I know people have misused the word in the past to offend but it would be nice to see a move further towards sensibility where you can use the word to describe someone one from Pakistan and rob racists of their term. Now I don't think a term like Chinky is really acceptable as it's a mutation of a word but if Bezza and his mates use it to refer to a Chinese restaurant then who's being hurt? I think this sort of mindless political correctness is hurtful and actually distances groups from each other and just doesn't really help as it lends the negative use of Paki or whatever term an inherent coolness.
Perhaps you should ask someone from a racial minority if they'd prefer to return to those pre-PC days of the 60s & 70s when it was considered acceptable for mainstream political parties to use slogans like "If you want a n****r for a neighbour, vote liberal or labour."Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
Perhaps you should shut up? :dozey: No one ever said nigger was acceptable.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeansBeansBeans
No, but it was considered acceptable prior to political correctness, a movement you describe as mindless and unhelpful.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
No I didn't. Go back and read my post.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeansBeansBeans
I do wish you'd refrain from this sort of thing Daniel. You carry on like you're some sort of intellectual powerhouse. Take it from me, you aren't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
I never said that. I just think that people should read people's posts and not make assumptions.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeansBeansBeans
Exactly. I think to have a bit of a joke about differences and stereotypes (within reason) makes the situation better. It's like the Simpsons, when they make of the Canadians for having a better healthcare system, cleaner streets, less crime, suggesting that they're all either mounties or ice hockey players beating the bejesus out of each other, saying 'ey at the end of every sentence they're not saying Canada is a crap place or anything they're actually saying it's better in some ways and just playing on the stupid stereotypes that some people have of Canada. Heck there's even a joke squeezed in about English speaking Canadians and French speaking Canadians hating each other :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa
Watch from 16:00 in this one :)
http://wtso.net/movie/59-The_Simpson...s_What_it.html
You'll need to watch this one in Firefox for it to work.
http://www.wtso.net/movie/208-The%20...ight%20Rx.html
This episode has one of my favourite quotes when a Canadian says "Well, I've always wanted to see a man with the IQ of a child executed by the State, we don't get that up here".
Ay, nothing apart from that and years of the word being associated with extreme racially motivated violence, besides that it's A-okQuote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
I prefer the South Park where Canada goes on strike and no one really notices :D You could probably stand in any high street in England and shout "I'm not your guy, friend" and someone will yell back "Your not my friend, budday" :laugh: Racism against Canadians is funny, eh? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
Of course and I understand that. I'm just saying that if you look at the words they're origins are the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Jan Yeo
You may as well say that there's no difference between referring to a vagina and a ****. The truth is that, while they are only words, one is hugely offensive to a lot of people and the other isn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
I disagree. There are a few words that are now considered offensive. So what? Times change. It's not all that much of a hardship not to use a few offensive words, is it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
What is it with you, BBB and your collective lack of comprehension today? I never said that it's a hardship, all I said was that mindless political correctness is divisive and doesn't actually solve anything..Quote:
Originally Posted by BDunnell
That's where your wrong. **** is a slang name for vagina, Brit isn't another name for Paki now is it? Just like 7 isn't another way of expressing the number five.Quote:
Originally Posted by BDunnell
Now you're really being, with respect, stupid. This isn't mindless 'political correctness' at all. We are talking about a term that is highly offensive - beyond the pale to most. What is your problem with not using it on that basis?Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
I presume you are deliberately misunderstanding me for some sort of effect. I am using examples of words that are offensive and words that aren't. There is a distinction.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
I never said I was going to use it here for petes sake! All I said was that here we've got a term whose origins aren't shady like for instance the word nigger and yes it was misused in the past but the origins aren't nasty and all they did was add two syllables the word used by normal people to describe someone from Pakistan and in a sense the word Paki was in a sense glorified and held up as a term for thick ****s to use against people from Pakistan or if they're particularly stupid people from India, Bangladesh and Afghanistan.Quote:
Originally Posted by BDunnell
:laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by BeansBeansBeans
Mark, can you put Intellectual Powerhouse under Daniel's name please? :D
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My Brit/Paki question was just highlighting a discrepancy between the two, which are just shorted versions of a country name. However, I do understand, that Paki is highly offensive, and Brit isn't. But this raises two questions - 1) What if non-British people were to start using the term Brit offensively? 2) What if the word Brit was followed by words like "scum"?
Does that change anything?
Also, regards to "Chinky" - I don't actually use it, because I don't like Chinese (food!) :D However, I don't see an issue with saying harmlessly "Anybody fancy a Chinky?" between friends, obviously as long as it is referring to the choice of takeaway!
I'd probably agree with whoever said it. There a lot of people in this nation who fit the word fairly well, they usually go round spouting crap about immigrants and saying "make Britain Great again"Quote:
Originally Posted by Bezza
Edit: Loving how yet another thread has decsended into an argument about racism, Rallyforum is nothing if not predictable :laugh:
In Ireland many use the term Brit as a term of hate... Brits Out was not a polite request for the British influence to end... it was a war cry and often backed up with Violence... the fact in Britain they also refer to themselves as Brits is a separate thing...
To my mind Paki is a way for ignorant people to categorise a group of people (usually geographically incorrectly) and only used when being abusive or disparaging to that group... language is forever evolving and expanding, historically some words become abusive and unacceptable...
when that happens it is time to stop using them, there is no merit is defending them further.
One of the differences between Brit and Paki is that Paki is used as an insult towards all Asians, where as Brit is distinct to Britons. To answer your question though, if I was referred to as Brit Scum or White Scum by a group of non-whites, I would consider that equally bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bezza
As for the chinky thing, I know that not everyone who uses it means harm, but I also know that many chinese people find it insulting, so I'd prefer to use the phrase 'going for a Chinese'.
They can be "quite" all of those things you mentioned, whereas I am "very" of all those things you mentioned :DQuote:
Originally Posted by BDunnell
Very well put.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooper_S
Very true. As I've said all along it's not a term I'd use in the UK because of how it's been used it is classed as something which is offensive..Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooper_S
My argument is that by effectively outlawing the use of words like this it glamourises (for want of a better word) the use of them and the very sorts of people who will use these words in a discriminatory way don't mind the words being outlawed because they resent authority and the fact that it's let foreign people in. It's just like when you tell kids not to swear, it just makes it cooler to do so.