From what I've seen of that race, none of that racing looked too hard on unfair.Quote:
Originally Posted by studiose
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From what I've seen of that race, none of that racing looked too hard on unfair.Quote:
Originally Posted by studiose
He moved to the right while Alonso was at least partly alongside. If he wanted to take the inside line, why didn't he move there while Alonso was still behind? I'll tell yer why. Because it was a typical bad-Senna, bad-Schumacher and - oh yes! - bad-Webber bully move.Quote:
Originally Posted by woody2goody
I cited Dijon 1979 because quite a lot of drivers at the time thought their behaviour was disgraceful and some even felt they should have been banned.Quote:
Originally Posted by studiose
I do take your point, and could have phrased it better. However, I simply don't see what Webber did that was unacceptable. It was aggressive, but not overly so. Nor do I consider him to be a 'dirty driver'.Quote:
Originally Posted by studiose
where's ozrevhead?
She needs to read this thread. ;) :p :
Just seen this thread for the first time.
errrrrrrrrr, what is all the fuss about?
It looked to me as if Webber moved over to take the defensive line, at the same time as Alonso ducked out for the move. That's just unfortunate. Alonso did not go on the grass, and Webber did not push him on the grass.
Just as F1 gets exciting, some poo poo the idea of hard racing.
Maybe we should invite Johnson & Johnson as a global F1 sponsor and wrap all the cars in cotton wool.......
tsk.
or maybe used tyres, like a tugboat. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by SGWilko
Dodge 'Em cars, that's what we need in F1! :laugh:
No offence, but that's just nonsense.Quote:
Originally Posted by SGWilko
Have you ever seen Kimi, for example, pull a move like that? A racer as hard as nails. But always fair.
Sorry mate, but I was on about Villeneuve-Arnoux. Read the original post first :pQuote:
Originally Posted by studiose
Alonso didn't have to try to complete the pass, but he bravely went near the wall and the grass and he did it. It was Webber's job to block Fernando off.
Thats because hes a boring, lost all intreast in the sport little rich boy.Quote:
Originally Posted by studiose
Oh a Ferrari fan, where did Ioan go.
Come on fo r F*CK Sake, it was an overtaking move, it was dangerous but thats motorsport.
Mabe they should change the rules, and stop overtaking altogether.
I just can not belive, that some people cry over the fact there is not enough overtaking, and then when it happens they moan.
Piquet Mansell, on the Hangers Straight Silverstone 1987 comes to mind. A great but dangerous move.
Mansell Senna, wheel to wheel inches apart, sparks flying, think that was Barcerlona as well, dangerous but great stuff.
Spot on. It was almost the same in some ways, but Senna and Mansell were in the middle of the track so that's ok ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by big_sw2000
http://www.crankshafted.com/upload/f...lingalonso.jpg
Well, I still think Webber left too little room! But at least he realized his mistake quickly and allowed Alonso to get back to the racing track.
There are two people in the world, who thought this was illeagle, and wrong.
It was not Webber, or Alonso, it just happens to be two people on this forum. And belive me if it was wrong, Alonso would be first to shout
It was on a straight, massivly wide. Alonso did not have to put his car there.Quote:
Originally Posted by jens
But excellent photo
Yes. He squeezed Massa onto the wet grass in Spa last year.Quote:
Originally Posted by studiose
:up: Alonso had plenty of time to lift while the track was wider but he chose to keep it nailed and take the position.Quote:
Originally Posted by big_sw2000
At the end of the day, thats Alonso all over, im not a fan of the his. But thats the way he drives, and f1 will be a borring place when he retaires.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Jan Yeo
Yes, How dare a Driver attempt to Defend his Position!! :rolleyes:
Does anyone have the you-tube vid?
Wow.
I can't believe this is even being discussed. How ridiculous. Was the overtaking move of the race and possibly the season so far. Incredible.
He squeezed Nando for sure, but still gave him bitumen to work with. Webber would not intentionally put any drivers in harms way. Nando, to his credit, took what little space Webber gave him and made it stick. He just didn't expect Webber to have the kahunas to outbreak and overtake again.
Overtake of the race by a country mile. Isn't this what we wanted in 2009?
http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,189...310976,00.html
Quote:
OVERTAKING MOVE OF THE RACE
Lap 6: Mark Webber, Red Bull on Fernando Alonso, Renault.
An early contender for Overtaking Move of the Season, Mark Webbers's re-take of Alonso on Lap 6 was a minor classic. As the Red Bull rushed up the inside of the Renault at Turn 1, which had just blitzed him with the KERS button, the PF1 office held its collective breath. Surely Webbo would go sailing on and Fernando would say "adios" as he ducked underneath. But no. Mark got the Red Bull stopped and turned in and kept his place in front of Alonso. Aye carumba!
Yes Webber was wide but Nando didn't have to stay out there. He did though, because he's a racer and good on him. After seeing where the grass started Webber gave Nando more track.
Remember, while we can take slow frame photos and analyse it now on track it all happened in a couple tenths.
Whoops my bad....
http://www.sutton-images.com/previews/d09esp1543.jpg
Here you go young man....
http://www.sutton-images.com/previews/d09esp1544.jpg
Exsqueeze me, dont mind if I just come through here do you?
http://images.gpupdate.net/large/125891.jpg
That sequence is worth a thousand words easily. Mark made an aggressive block, Fernando chose to stay in the gas and make the pass stick.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari
You can see in that sequence how Mark was changing directly once he realized Alonso was hitting the pit exit and staying in the gas.
When I first watched it I thought it was a bad move on Webbers part. In replay it became apparent that he actually gave some room to Alonso once he knew Fernando had made it inside.
YES that is bad racing by mark making poor alonso run across the grass :imubash: :imubash:
Thank you VERY much. Spot on.Quote:
Originally Posted by airshifter
Well, I have to say... based on the evidence presented, I have to reconsider my position somewhat.
Well done, Aussie boys, for making a good case, and also for not flipping out. :up:
Still, I don't think Webber's initial move was in any way good.
http://i41.tinypic.com/2me3lmo.jpg
when you look at the direction that mark's car he is giving him plenty of room
Couldn't agree more.. Some armchair 'experts' tend to forget that things like this happen in tenths of seconds.. Great racing by BOTH drivers!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari
Your pic sequence shows the bigger picture, how it really happened.. so clearly. Lets hope this puts a closure to what really is a silly thread.
I never considered Mark a dirty driver and I think this thread has all the hallmarks of hysteria brought on by over consumption of Kool Aid.
Have to admit though that the pics were first posted on Mark Webber Forum. But yes it does tell a true picture.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zico
It was one of the best pieces of motor racing this season...
I hit the rewind button many times watching this great bit of driving by both Fernando and Mark...
Hats off to these two for entertaining me...
Quote:
Originally Posted by markabilly
Versus has something called Indycar, perhaps you'd enjoy it more.
I'd have been calling race control if I saw this at my corner in an SCCA race. But this isn't club-level racing. This is F1, and F1 is war on four wheels.
this probably sums it up the best. The problem is that webber moved over on his as he was passing. It is a dirty and dangerous move. But a legal move or F1 would have banned or penalized him. If you want to move over to protect a line do it when the other car is behind. you keep doing this sh!t and one day a car will brake with the front tire inside your rear and you will be launched.Quote:
Originally Posted by studiose
Yes, there is some common sense around here, so it seems and an excellent point.Quote:
Originally Posted by fousto
meanwhile the webber fanboys go so far as to post pictures when the real dangerous part of the block was already over, except for the part where Freddie ends up on the grass....which of course, they choose NOT to show--Note Webber's front wheels, pointed towards cutting off Freddie--and if wheel contact occurred and launched the car, the flagman is in a perfect position to catch freeddie in his lap...soo sooorrrey boys, webber is a dirty driver....(and this photo was taken after the initial block that nearly put FA into the pitwall and forced him across the pitlane--which is what I was talking about---dudhhh)
http://www.crankshafted.com/upload/f...lingalonso.jpg
If you really want to make passing frequently happen, then sorry crap like this should be banned, because it discourages passing by making it even more dangerous where a driver can cut you off with no where to go, except off track or collide with the other car.
In the old days, when real men drove F1, as in the 50-70's, (not the silly candy ass kids like Webber) the situation was way too dangerous and the drivers policed themselves.
The rule was simple: car in front must maintain racing line, no sudden blocks.if the car comes up on the inside as the cars go into the corner, the car in front must yield and permit room for the pass.
The real reason for this is that Mark Webber has a Union Jack in the corner of his nation's flag (therefore he is British). Hating the British is morally acceptable around here, we already established that quite some time ago ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Valve Bounce
Like i said, if there was a problem with the pass, Alonso, or Freedie as some like to call him, would be 1st to complain.
Maybe some people like boring F1 with no overtaking.
Quote:
Originally Posted by donKey jote
I'm with the donkey here, and I didn't even remember this piece of action before reading this thread.
They fought for position, I'm all for it.
Webber's move was a bit out of kilter, whether this far Webber has never been in situation that enable him to move that way, it looks like maneuver unusual for him. In many races Vettel outperforms him might have promoted him to drive more defensive.
Alonso was fairly strong at the starts, after that incident he drove gradually slower down. It's probably the engine he can't have more power to drive faster, but considering suspension and electrical device are something fragile that incident could give him disadvantage.
I think he will encounter it with protest if only they fought for first position, else he might be worried of people being tired to listen to his complaint. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Donney
With fans like these, is it any wonder many say that F1 is boring... you see some high quality racing between two drivers who don't give an inch, absolutely epic stuff, and you lot are having the worlds biggest cry because oh its all too aggressive!
Maybe the FIA have it all wrong, they should be concentrating on making it HARDER for the cars to overtake as that is clearly what some of you want.
Mark knew that if Alonso got past his race was stuffed, so he had a big go to try and hold the position, just as Alonso was having a big go to try and take the position. One driver won, the other didn't, its called motor racing! This is serious high stakes stuff fellahs! Its not a bloody tea party, bloody hell....
Curiously, this drum is still banged on this thread. Endlessly.Quote:
Originally Posted by RJL25
You guys do know that blocking hinders overtaking, right? Is an enemy of overtaking. Is a... you know. What kryptonite is to Superman, blocking is to overtaking.
Without such choppy-choppies being tolerated, overtaking would be easier. As in, not as difficult. As in... you know?
And Rollo - well done fellow, you've nailed it! :crazy: :laugh: