Indycool, Where art thou?

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3rd May 2009, 03:46
jarrambide

I do think is to sick, I thought it was to sick the last 2 CC seasons, that is why it breaks my heart to see the numbers, as I said, I´m not seeing any errors or mistakes this year, I knew how ratings would look like, but i Can´t se those numbers without thinking it is late for us, but I may be wrong, I´m not an expert or a seer, que será, será.
3rd May 2009, 04:36
garyshell

Quote:

Originally Posted by jarrambide

I´m not an expert or a seer, que será, será.

I think the proper use for that phrase is now que Sarah, Sarah. Right Ken?

Gary
3rd May 2009, 05:24
Loneranger

Quote:

Originally Posted by jarrambide

Can´t make it to Indy, last week(Friday) I was playing with my indoor soccer team (we play in a league here in Houston, Arsenal we call ourselves), I had a double clavicle fracture, my left hand will be immobilized fo 5 more weeks and hopefully the bones will fuse right and I will noy need surgery, typing with only one hand, staying in bed after work and weekends suck big time and my wife just informed me that I will never receive permission to be a keeper again, all I can say is thank you pain killers, one day I forgot to take the afternoon pill in time, bloody pain.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3376/...87f397ca08.jpg

Outch! Hope you feel better soon.
3rd May 2009, 05:30
Loneranger

Quote:

Originally Posted by jarrambide

The actual state of OWR in the US, I am sure they are a bunch of real steps in the right direction but I have seen so many bad years that it saddens me to see the ratings, the attendance, the problems, seeing those numbers breaks my heart and makes me think it may be late to save OWR in the US, I can live with F1, I´m a huge F1 fan, I watch every race live, but I like attending races, I nees a series in tne US.

Can you see my point?, I can see those steps and at the same time be angry and complain about the actual state, even if I knew we would get those numbers this year.

No I don't see your point. I don't think its fair to accuse the "state" of openwheel for limiting your positive judgments of the series.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jarrambide

not accusing, not saying you are being evil or trying to take over the world, but been there, done that for so many years, I am tired of trying to be super exrea ultra optimist, of trying to find the positive on everything, of making excuses.

I've been around these boards as long as anybody and have been called just about everything. The last thing I would consider myself is an optimist. I call a spade a spade. There is plenty wrong with the IRL and I am not afraid to point out that long shopping list. But like I said a few posts back, for the first time in a very very long time I see some positive steps being made in the right direction for a change. The IRL and Champ Car/CART have bungled so much up over the last few years that its refreshing to finally see some changes that I feel will be made for the good. I hardly think that is being an "optimist" or wearing rose colored glasses.
3rd May 2009, 05:34
Loneranger

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa

Since this seems to be a Moddy's permission to dig into the past, what I believe you are saying Jose is OW may be too sick to survive in a form where it can attract top talent? That is what I am reading into it.

Unlike Ken/Sarah Fan, I choose not to see this TV deal as the end of the world, but I will admit I wish they had better ratings. That said, ESPN/ABC is bent on getting their NASCAR vehicles promoted and will pay only some lip service from now on to their Indy Car coverage. That sucks. The fact no other US networks want to step up outside of VS sucks.

Hell, it all sucks. That said, we cant live in the past. What has been done is done. I don't see what the IRL could have done differently in the last year. That isn't spin boys, that is just the reality. They went out and got the best deal they could. They are not surprised at the low numbers, because VS has a low household reach. As long as they draw AT the track, and the Indy 500 numbers keep advertisers on the teams as sponsors, then we can go somewhere. It is going to be a rough couple of years. NASCAR is the 800 lb gorilla of motorsport in America now, and the CART/IRL war of 1995 was the reason why this gorilla got such a lead. If OW racing as we know it dies, I wont be heartbroken, I can go do something else. I watch more NASCAR now myself, and I love my sportscar racing.

What bothers me tho is those who keep bouncing up and down on this topic WEEK AFTER WEEK as if someone was spinning this as good news. No one that I can tell is really doing that. VS is putting out a pretty good TV product that many are not watching. Maybe that is our fate, but I don't see this one as Tony's malfesence or stupidity. THAT was 14 years ago my friends.....that ship sailed.....

We seem to be on the same page Mark. What is more encouraging for me besides the quality of the broadcast and the fact Scott Goodyear is gone, is that Versus is actually making a full blown attempt to promote the series and work towards increasing the viewership. That is something I have been waiting for, wishing for and hoping for, for the last, well, since the split, and finally their is a broadcaster that seems to be truly working as a "partner". That is the part that I think Ken doesn't get or chooses to ignore, or thinks that there are only 10 people watching the network so it doesn't matter anyway.
3rd May 2009, 05:34
Loneranger

Quote:

Originally Posted by jarrambide

I do think is to sick, I thought it was to sick the last 2 CC seasons, that is why it breaks my heart to see the numbers, as I said, I´m not seeing any errors or mistakes this year, I knew how ratings would look like, but i Can´t se those numbers without thinking it is late for us, but I may be wrong, I´m not an expert or a seer, que será, será.

How can you even begin to think its to late? That is just nonsense.
3rd May 2009, 05:47
jarrambide

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loneranger

How can you even begin to think its to late? That is just nonsense.

Because I remember CART in their glory days, and I remember CART last seasons and I remember the split years and the awfuk state of CC and the IRL and I see the state of IndyCar and the state of our economy and I just can´t keep thinking that the next yeat will be the year that will make the difference.
3rd May 2009, 05:51
Loneranger

Quote:

Originally Posted by jarrambide

Because I remember CART in their glory days, and I remember CART last seasons and I remember the split years and the awfuk state of CC and the IRL and I see the state of IndyCar and the state of our economy and I just can´t keep thinking that the next yeat will be the year that will make the difference.

Who said anything about the next year making the difference?
3rd May 2009, 06:00
jarrambide

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loneranger

Who said anything about the next year making the difference?

Me, I have been saying it for 6 years, and pretty much every new year has been worst than the previous one, I just don´t see how to improve this with Versus, I do get how ESPN was doing nothing for us, but because I see that our 2 options are delivering a crappy production to everyone with cable or delivering a good production to a fraction of cable users in a channel with historically low ratings is why I think it is late, lets hope I´m wrong.
3rd May 2009, 06:35
Loneranger

Quote:

Originally Posted by jarrambide

Me, I have been saying it for 6 years, and pretty much every new year has been worst than the previous one, I just don´t see how to improve this with Versus, I do get how ESPN was doing nothing for us, but because I see that our 2 options are delivering a crappy production to everyone with cable or delivering a good production to a fraction of cable users in a channel with historically low ratings is why I think it is late, lets hope I´m wrong.

Here is where guys like you and Ken drive me crazy with your logic.

What's better? To have a pool of a million potential viewers and a broadcaster who isn't willing to try and attract any. Or a pool of 225,000 viewers and a broadcaster who is willing to try and attract as many of them as possible.

Is a 1.0 not a 1.0 regardless of what network it is achieved on? Who says Versus is not capable of attracting a large audience? Apparently Ken says so.
3rd May 2009, 07:24
SarahFan

.15
3rd May 2009, 14:19
indycool

It is a time of rebuilding after a long teardown. NASCAR did not blossom overnight. This isn't going to do so, either.
3rd May 2009, 14:58
DBell

Quote:

Originally Posted by jarrambide

(quote)What are you disappointed in? Lay it out for me cause I only see a bunch of steps in the right direction. Problems are far from being solved as far as I am concerned, but for the first time in a really really long time I am encouraged with the direction "openwheel" racing is finally taking.(quoye ends).

The actual state of OWR in the US, I am sure they are a bunch of real steps in the right direction but I have seen so many bad years that it saddens me to see the ratings, the attendance, the problems, seeing those numbers breaks my heart and makes me think it may be late to save OWR in the US, I can live with F1, I´m a huge F1 fan, I watch every race live, but I like attending races, I nees a series in tne US.

Can you see my point?, I can see those steps and at the same time be angry and complain about the actual state, even if I knew we would get those numbers this year.

I see your point very well because it sums up how I've come to feel. From my point of view, very well stated.
3rd May 2009, 15:58
jarrambide

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loneranger

Here is where guys like you and Ken drive me crazy with your logic.

What's better? To have a pool of a million potential viewers and a broadcaster who isn't willing to try and attract any. Or a pool of 225,000 viewers and a broadcaster who is willing to try and attract as many of them as possible.

Is a 1.0 not a 1.0 regardless of what network it is achieved on? Who says Versus is not capable of attracting a large audience? Apparently Ken says so.

That is exactly what breaks my heart, that is exactly what tells me AOWR is in such a bad state, both options are not what we need, as I said, since we have only 2 options, Vs is the one I would choose, but that doesn´t make it the better option, it makes it less bad than ESPN.

Imagine you have a horrible infection in your left leg, and the doctor tells you because you waited so long to do something, you only have 2 options, to cut your leg below the knee or to die from gangrene, amputation will be the right decision always, but that doesn´t make a good thing, a happy thing, it is not the best option, but the one you have to take under the circumstances.

As I said 5 or 6 times already, I don´t see any bad decisions or mistakes this year, I don´t think I would want things done differently, but that doesn´t mean I have to like what AOWR looks right now.
3rd May 2009, 16:08
jarrambide

Quote:

Originally Posted by indycool

It is a time of rebuilding after a long teardown. NASCAR did not blossom overnight. This isn't going to do so, either.

But you understand that because of that it is OK to complain about the actual state, there is no split now, we can look at reality and dislike the numbers and hope for the best, but we can and we should dislike the present, this is not what the fans, the teams, the drivers or TG wants, we all dislike the current state.

We get this is a reconstruction time, but because there is no other series, this time we as fans can look at the state and see all the wrong things without making excuses or thinking everything will change magically, how many here predicted that CC was about to turn the tide?, what happened to CC?, how many here believed that with the end of CC IRL would instantly grow their ratings and attendance, how are those numbers looking after more than a year with only one series?

I understand Ken, he is not doing it out of bitterness, he was doing it with CC and he was a big CC fan, but that didn´t stop him from disliking the things he was sure would destroy CC.
3rd May 2009, 17:55
SarahFan

05/01/09 Rumor has it that Laura George, IMS Staff Advisor and wife of Tony George, got fired this week from the Indianapolis Motor Speedway by Tony George's sisters - Kathi George, Nancy George and Josephine (Josie) George. They along with Tony own the Speedway.
From what we hear she cleaned out her office. Do you sense a family feud brewing?

We also hear they may have hired a new Chief Financial Officer to advise on key financial matters.

^IC... either of those 2 rumors hold water?
3rd May 2009, 18:13
SarahFan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loneranger

Ahhh, somebody who is finally starting to make partial sense of this little endeavor....

If ratings for the regular season grow to anything halfway acceptable, say 1.5 or even a 2.0 and imagine a 3.0 best case, what do you think that will mean for the Indy 500 ratings? It means the 500 will bring in huge numbers and a 10.0 would not be unimaginable if regular season is averaging 3.0's.

I hardly think you can classify that as a niche sport. Give me a break.

man-O-live... it sounds like your trying to sell me a used car or somethin...

lets not forget I told you from the beginning of 06' that CC was toast.... you disagreed to the point of making a significant financial investment in regards to its future.....

how's the name change/branding coming along!?
3rd May 2009, 20:10
DBell

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loneranger

Ahhh, somebody who is finally starting to make partial sense of this little endeavor....

If ratings for the regular season grow to anything halfway acceptable, say 1.5 or even a 2.0 and imagine a 3.0 best case, what do you think that will mean for the Indy 500 ratings? It means the 500 will bring in huge numbers and a 10.0 would not be unimaginable if regular season is averaging 3.0's.

I hardly think you can classify that as a niche sport. Give me a break.

IF all that happened, then no I wouldn't call it a niche sport either. But were so far from those numbers that you can't see them from here with the Hubble telescope. My pessimism is that Versus will never deliver anything close to these numbers. My fear is that it's too late for OW in the US to recover to the level you mentioned. Too many self inflicted wounds and missed opportunities and just too many wasted years gone by to be at that level again.
3rd May 2009, 20:25
Hoop-98

grant me the strength to change what I can, the patience to accept what I cannot, and the wisdom to know the difference...
3rd May 2009, 20:30
jarrambide

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoop-98

grant me the strength to change what I can, the patience to accept what I cannot, and the wisdom to know the difference...

Hello, my name is José Arrambide and I´m a OWR fan.
3rd May 2009, 20:35
Hoop-98

Quote:

Originally Posted by jarrambide

Hello, my name is José Arrambide and I´m a OWR fan.

So you go to RFA meetings ;)
3rd May 2009, 20:39
jarrambide

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoop-98

So you go to RFA meetings ;)

No, I´m in denial right now, I can control my racing habits, I can quit anytime, I just don´t want to quit now. :)
3rd May 2009, 20:56
Loneranger

Quote:

Originally Posted by SarahFan

man-O-live... it sounds like your trying to sell me a used car or somethin...

lets not forget I told you from the beginning of 06' that CC was toast.... you disagreed to the point of making a significant financial investment in regards to its future.....

how's the name change/branding coming along!?

Bite me. :D
3rd May 2009, 20:58
Loneranger

Quote:

Originally Posted by DBell

IF all that happened, then no I wouldn't call it a niche sport either. But were so far from those numbers that you can't see them from here with the Hubble telescope. My pessimism is that Versus will never deliver anything close to these numbers. My fear is that it's too late for OW in the US to recover to the level you mentioned. Too many self inflicted wounds and missed opportunities and just too many wasted years gone by to be at that level again.

As long as their is an interest its never to late.

Are you trying to say that you think America is no longer interested in openwheel racing?
3rd May 2009, 21:43
DBell

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loneranger

As long as their is an interest its never to late.

Are you trying to say that you think America is no longer interested in openwheel racing?

It doesn't seem that way. How many new, young fans do you think OW gained over the last decade? Not many, I'd say.
4th May 2009, 00:08
indycool

Sarahfan, I don't run anywhere near those circles and have no idea.
4th May 2009, 02:42
Easy Drifter

To me it was clear that the ABC/ESPN coverage was going nowhere and what is left of it still isn't. Yes the 500 gets hyped but that is all.
Versus is not the greatest but they are pushing the races from what I hear and producing a better product. The big hope is Versus will grow and carry IRL with it. Maybe or maybe not but ABC/ESPN seemed to be a dead end street. So that can be seen as a positive.
Up here in the boonies we are stuck with TSN who couldn't really care less about racing. They usually show the races on a tape delay at 3 or 3.30 in the morning. Some are on TSN2 which I do not get and Rogers cable won't even carry. That really hypes the ratings and interest. I have Bell satellite but unless I get HD and/or pay more do not get TSN2.
This year they are forcing the blackout of Speed's coverage of F1. Practice which TSN does not cover is blacked out. TSN does not have the BBC pre race show but Speed's coverage is blacked out. Speed's repeats, even days later are blacked out.
Yes I complained to TSN. I did not even get an acknowledgement let alone a response.
4th May 2009, 05:49
Hoop-98

So the alternatives were....

A.
B.
C.
....

rh
4th May 2009, 16:20
bblocker68

Ken, change your name back before we see a MilkaFan coming around the corner :)
4th May 2009, 17:07
garyshell

Quote:

Originally Posted by MilkaDunoFan

.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bblocker68

Ken, change your name back before we see a MilkaFan coming around the corner :)

Sorry Barry, but you are much too late! ...big ol' grin...

Gary
4th May 2009, 18:24
SarahFan

Quote:

Originally Posted by bblocker68

Ken, change your name back before we see a MilkaFan coming around the corner :)

i will on the 26th...
5th May 2009, 01:58
NickFalzone

I'll be lurking around the corner with a toxic water bottle to throw in Sarahfan's face, you watch out honey.
5th May 2009, 14:38
nigelred5

I'm pleased that the VS coverage is vastly improved over the ESPN production since that's all we have to watch now. Despite the mythbusters proof that you CAN in fact, polish a turd, I just don't see that enough people see the attraction of a shiny turd for this thing to rebound. The racing simply needs brand competetion. My guy beat your guy only goes so far. Without Automobile brand competition, racing just doesn't have much commercial relevance. Who cares if a guy in a Honda beat..... a guy in a Honda?
Imagine NASCAR with a field full of Toyotas. No ford, no chevy, no dodge. By year 5, no one would care. I had a great time at the Grand Am race this weekend. 5 hours in my hurricane gear, walking around the track in the pouring rain, cheering on the porsches, fords, pontiacs, mazdas, chevys. I wouldn't leave my living room to watch the IRL right now, and that's unfortunate to say. I've got such a jones for attending a good open wheel race it's sickening.

The series is making some strides towards one more to my liking, however the delay in the new formula is crushing any positives IMHO. SPEC racing doesn't work for anyone but the hardcore race fan, and even that is borderline. It's good for the drivers, but not so appealing for anyone else. I think NASCAR has been tanking since the introduction of the COT, essentially spec racing. Champcar tanked it. I've simply never seen ANY spec series having any sort of significant lasting appeal.
5th May 2009, 15:42
bblocker68

Quote:

Originally Posted by garyshell

Sorry Barry, but you are much too late! ...big ol' grin...

Gary

DOH!! (head slap)
5th May 2009, 16:20
garyshell

Quote:

Originally Posted by nigelred5

I had a great time at the Grand Am race this weekend. 5 hours in my hurricane gear, walking around the track in the pouring rain, cheering on the porsches, fords, pontiacs, mazdas, chevys.

Wow, in the 42 years that I have been regularly attending motorsports events. I can count on one finger the number of times I have said (or heard anyone else say) "Go, Mazda", "Go, Pontiac", "Go, Alfa", "Go, Porsche". Now I have heard hundreds, if not thousands, of times myself and others yell "Go, Alessandro", "Go, Mario", "Go, Emmo", "Go, Al", "Go, Paul", "Go, Nigel".

While I do think that manufactures do bring certain intangibles to the sport in the eyes of the fans, I think you grossly over estimate the importance. I think racing even to the casual fan is and always has been about the warrior not the chariot. The decline we both abhor, is not because of the chariots; only the hard core race fan is interested in the chariot. The decline is because of the lack of visibility of the warrior. Back in the day, everyone in the USA knew who Mario or AJ were. Lots of folks even knew of that "furiner" Emmo.

Gary
5th May 2009, 18:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by garyshell

Wow, in the 42 years that I have been regularly attending motorsports events. I can count on one finger the number of times I have said (or heard anyone else say) "Go, Mazda", "Go, Pontiac", "Go, Alfa", "Go, Porsche". Now I have heard hundreds, if not thousands, of times myself and others yell "Go, Alessandro", "Go, Mario", "Go, Emmo", "Go, Al", "Go, Paul", "Go, Nigel".

Gary, you ought to try Monza in September.

Although, admittedly, it is only one manufacturer they cheer for.
10th August 2011, 21:33
SarahFan

This thread was awesome ....

Jan, Jody & Jose where you?
10th August 2011, 23:02
garyshell

I skype with Jose on occasion. He is still in Texas teaching school. And looking forward to the F1 race in Austin.

Gary
11th August 2011, 00:07
Chris R

I know who Jose is/was but who are Jody and Jan (Loneranger and Indycool??) We have lost some good posters in the last year......
11th August 2011, 11:33
indycool

Developed an illness five years ago that occasionally flares up and was in the hospital for four months earlier this year, so have kinda been offline of late and just gettin' back a little.

Interesting season, though. Wild finish at Indy....Franchitti and Power don't seem to like each other much.....Mario adamantly feels the leader oughta be able to defend his position and new rules on blocking don't quite allow that....police "pit maneuvers" seem more common on the narrow road and street courses......lot of goin's on goin' on. :)

Best to everyone......

IC

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