Not quite true.....so are you.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1
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Not quite true.....so are you.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1
I don't want to sound rude, but nobody forces Flav to develop KERS or the diffusers. Its his choice. To be on top is expensive. Check how many people worked at Brawn GP.
It's notable that when Renault spent money developing J-dampers they had no moral problem about the advantage it gave them. Now the boot's on the other foot, so to speak, and lo and behold we have a typical Flavio reaction.
FLAMBOYANT TEAM PRINCIPAL IN OUTSPOKEN TIRADE SHOCK
Who would have thought it?
What next?
"RON DENNIS MANGLES THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE REVELATION"?
"JEAN TODT IN SINGLE-MINDED QUEST TO WIN"?
That's because you take time to read and think about what he said, before furiously grabbing the keyboard and start calling him names. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by tamburello
On the other hand, it is fun to see him so angry :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Brockman
Let's see with what money will Brawn GP continue developing their cars. I bet Renault can outspend them easily, now and forever.Quote:
Originally Posted by F1boat
PS: Why don't you try to reason a bit taking into account the present world's realities?
It's also notable that there was no world wise economic recession back in 2005 and 2006, not to mention a 30 million spending cap looming at the horizon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Brockman
If we start talking about facts than let's consider everything not only one side.
Nor me. The absurdity of the FIA imposing a costly KERS system on the teams is certainly a good discussion topic, as is the whole budget capping issue but IIRC there are threads about these already.Quote:
Originally Posted by tamburello
But that is what Flavio is talking about in the link posted by you in the opening post of the thread. Shouldn't you call this thread the "Flavio bashing thread!" and this way we would know that there is no use trying to discuss what he said?Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1
But this is a thread about what Briatore has said, is it not?Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1
F1 needs characters. If it was all Press Release correctness then there would be no passion, no interest and nothing to talk about except lap-times. Flavio knows that better than anybody with the possible exception of Bernard Ecclestone Esquire.
Without the likes of Briatore and, yes, Ron Dennis, F1 would be Formula ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.
Ferrari didn't become the biggest name in motorsport because Enzo was a lovely cuddly man who didn't ever speak his mind.
Button's reposte is all that really needs to be said about his comments about drivers.....although I don't think Ruben's should be able to get away with calling somebody a 'bad loser' without pointing out that Ruben's has been a fecking brilliant loser in the past. He made a career out of it for 5 years!!!!
The thread title and Briatore's comments quoted in the first post make it clear what this thread was about.Quote:
Originally Posted by tamburello
Oh, my apologies. So we aren't allowed to point out that he isn't just the arse you claim?Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1
Very good....non-debatable debate....just what a motorsport forum is for.
Perhaps you should try http://www.dontdebatewithmeaboutflavioiamright.com ?
according to Autosport and Button, Flav does know him very well - seeing as he tried to hire him for this year?!
now he's beating him he's a concrete bollard
To be fair, KERS is optional, not mandatory, and they will also upgrade their diffusers at their own discretion. They have themselves to blame if they are only left with 5m.Quote:
Originally Posted by tamburello
Smack on the money ioan - who did Chav try to hire for this season.....?Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
Ummmmmm,
aahhhhhhhh,
Button? :laugh:
Turn it in! I could ouspend Renault..Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
It's having the clever people that Renault seem to be lacking.....
when did lewis join them
Quote:
The drivers in our teams have been and are world champions
Do you find that it's a compliment to Jenson to be Alonso's new lap dog?Quote:
Originally Posted by SGWilko
A replacement for Piquet Jr.?
Any driver hired by Flavio to second Fernando should not feel honored by this, IMO.
He said teams, not team. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderbolt
Quote:
Originally Posted by SGWilko
yeah... they need someone good enough to grab some points behind Alonso but not fast enough to make (uselessly) things difficult for the spaniard.
... and there it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by SGWilko
It's not a question of cash reserves, it is in the spending on the 'what' and 'where' that determines where the team has the results.
You can have money out the wazoo, and still not make much headway; case in point, Toyota. It wasn't until this season, with all the cutbacks to their program, that they are seeing consistent podium finishes and points leading to the sharp end of the WCC.
Sometimes, too much money can lead to complacency, lack of meaningful development, and the willingness to chase what's hot or trendy, resulting in, basically, a pretty crap car, even if you have a two-time champion driving.
Should we assume that Briatore made the offer to Button after Honda had withdrawn and he appeared to have no F1 future? Or perhaps the offer was made before Alonso had been confirmed at Renault for 2009?Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
Rather than be something to pick up Nando's paper from the mat, I suspect, as with Lewis and Jarno, Jenson would be as good as Nando...Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
My dustbin truck driver would make a better pilot than Piquet Jnr....
I was not aware that is what Flavio offered to Button....
:rotflmao:Quote:
Originally Posted by SGWilko
Good joke!
:rotflmao:
I agree that Flav is a character that the sport would be poorer without. However, while I agree that he has the right to say and think what he likes, so do I. And for the foreseeable future I think I'll be cheering on those Renaults for 19th and 20th places.
I hate cliches but Brawn have been an absolute breath of fresh air - and so has the form of Williams and Toyota come to think of it. While half the grid was being babied along by the FIA championing their pseudo-innovative "KERS" systems, these three quietly went against the grain, and created clever designs that were actually effective. That's half of what this sport is supposed to be about!
well a couple of things here: Flav is in the twilight of his career and you know Alonso is going to bolt after this year. Probably will take RB's place. Or Kimi's
So he is left with a sh!t car and a stone for a driver.
Hey, who let fousto out his cage :?:
If being a charecter in F1 is slagging off the oposition when they do well and your team gets it wrong then F1 could do without these so called "charecters". I agree with Arrows, Briatore is an arse and only on occasion does he say anything particularly intelligent.
I think that Flavio will retire after this year.Quote:
Originally Posted by fousto
All this proves what we all know: that there is very little that separates a "good" driver from a "very good" driver, and that if the engineering is there, you only need a "good" driver. This has been true for years. Look at Damon Hill: can't race for beans, but had a talent for development, and managed to get hired by Williams.
I don't begrudge Jenson (or Rubens) for the boatload of points they will haul in this year--they are both good drivers. Neither are as talented as a Kimi or a Lewis (IMO), but both are former winners (Rubens in 2 different teams), and Jenson proved his worth in 2004 (IIRC), when he amassed 70+ points. To me, he very much deserves this break. If he had been in a Ferrari, Renault, or McLaren these past few years, he'd have as many wins as DC and RB, which ain't too shabby. Instead, he's as talented, if not more, than both, and only had one win until this season.
I think the reason Flav is so upset is that he knows he has the best driver on the grid (to me, FA is the only "great" driver in F1 right now) and he has very little chance to even be in the first 3-4 rows, and has no shot at winning.
Yep. I don't think Button is as complete as Alonso, at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
It looks like during the year we are going to get a lot of debates about whether Button is a worthy championship leader or just lucky cruiser. :p :
About "new pecking order". Let's see...
During winter tests several people were saying that former midfielders were showboating and teams like Ferrari/McLaren will inevitably end at the top.
Season has started and a similar feeling seems to be among fans that the success of former midfielders is just an anomaly and former greats will sooner or later establish themselves at the front.
What makes me ask here is that... is it realllly so difficult to understand that 'other teams' are very professional and actually can match or even beat the previous winners? What has created a theory that Ferrari/McLaren are inevitably the best teams in F1, status quo will stay until the end of World and the only way for others to beat them is by cheating (diffuser-gate)? I'd call that lack of flexibility by F1 followers.
F1 is in constant change, so are the teams. For example I see nothing in current Ferrari - greatest legend of all - that suggests they must be a top team. I'd say that for example Brawn GP is already a more professional team than them and would keep on doing better if only they could find enough funding... And Renault - sorry, but I really don't think they are quite the same any more as in 05-06... McLaren, I think, has great potential of rising back to the top though, if only they could stop shooting themselves in the feet with off-track actions...
Flavio a bad loser? - well, not a surprise to me!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
OWNEDQuote:
Originally Posted by planetf1
PS, sorry I'm a bit late, but couldn't resist.
AFCA from autosport forums has translated this Q&A with Briatore. Absolutely brilliant answers by him. I love it when people say whats on their mind and dont pussyfoot around.
Q: The verdict is there: Ross Brawn was right.
Briatore: ''What was he right about ? The diffuser issue ? Imagine if someone would leave the earth for a year and comes back to find out that Reggina, Lecce, Bologna and Torino are at the top of the Serie A table while Milan, Juventus and Inter are fighting against relegation. In this same way a Formula 1 fan finds out that the championship can be won by someone that was (already) retired (Barrichello - AFCA), one that is as slow as a milepost (Button), Rosberg, Click, or perhaps Clock (Glock - AFCA), Naca...Naca...what's he called ? I don't even know...
Q: ...Nakajima. But your ungenerous towards Button.
Briatore: ''He's a good guy for heaven's sake. He's not someone that causes trouble, he's not 'dirty'.''
Q: Are you still prepared to help Brawn GP financially ?
Briatore: ''I'm not. Actually, at the next FOTA meeting I will propose that each team will keep the money that it intended to give Brawn GP. The FIA has proven Brawn GP right and we, for once will say the FIA is right: Brawn GP is a new team. It will have to do the same as us when we entered (F1). Brawn is richer than I am, than all of us.''
Q: Do you mean that Brawn GP has more money than the big teams ?
Briatore: ''He bought the team for € 1 and on top of that he has received € 130 million from Honda as if it were a newlywed getting money from her parents. € 100 million in cash, € 30 was the famous bonus we (the teams) were willing to pass on to them. Fortunately we haven't yet done so ! I will propose to keep that money: I have to spend a lot of it in order for Renault not to remain one second adrift of Brawn GP. The difference now is that I know where to get the money from !''
Q: Apart from coming up with a double-decker diffuser, what has Brawn done that makes you so angry ?
Briatore: ''He hasn't been transparent as the technical head of the FOTA, he knew (about the diffusers) but didn't say it. Ah, I will propose others to have that role, I no longer feel represented by him. In fact, it's better to put the first Chinese bloke that comes round the corner in that position. Also, Brawn has behaved in a very bad way, attacking everyone one-on-one in front of the Court of Appeal, and in a rude way towards Byrne. Without Byrne, Brawn('s career) wouldn't even exist, I know this very well because both of them worked at Benetton. Byrne is a loyal and honest person, Brawn shamelessly attacked him, and he's done the same thing towards the others. So, he's a genius and all the others are idiots ?''
Q: So could this ruin the unity with the FOTA ?
Briatore: ''Why ? The FOTA approve (on matters) with a majority of 70% of the votes, thank god we don't always have to agree all ten of us. There are some bandits in the sport, it's no longer possible to be monolithic on every issue.''
Q: Parr has accused Ferrari and McLaren of having won titles with illegal cars.
Briatore: ''And for these words someone, the FIA itself, could charge him. Parr is an idiot.''
Q: He's got a role within the FOTA.
Briatore: ''Yes, it's being a pain in the arse.''
Q: Getting back to the verdict: was it really a technical one, or was it political ?
Briatore: ''One of the judges (De Marco from Malta) has fallen to sleep, or he's simply no good, or he knew on forehand what the outcome was going to be. The others were ready to fly out at the airport: after an eight-hour hearing they came up with the verdict in one hour. I don't want to think that there has been the intention to manipulate the result of the championship. If it were like that then that would be very grave, but I repeat: I don't even want to think about it.''
Q: Is the FIA to blame ?
Briatore: ''Very much so, because this entire row should have been dealt with earlier. There are technical people which homework it is to prevent problems.''
Q: Would it be necessary to put someone alongside Charlie Whiting ?
Briatore: ''The FOTA has put forward Brawn as his technical counterpart: look at what a great technical package he came up with.''
Q: Do you step out of this chaos with at least one certainty ?
Briatore: ''Yes, if you fall down a manhole then it's not a 'hole' but an 'opening'.''
Excellent!
I especially like how he called Bunsen as slow as a post.
sum-up of article; :bigcry:
:p :
AwesomeQuote:
Q: He's got a role within the FOTA.
Briatore: ''Yes, it's being a pain in the arse.''
I certainly hope that the F1 teams cheat less that the Serie A teams... although highly offensive. And while the insults to Jenson and Rubens and Glock are simply a matter of bad taste, this Naka thing is horrible, almost racist. It is funny, but shows that Flav is very poor stuff.
I think that sums it up for me. Complain all you want but it's ultimately the FIA's cock up that he has to deal with, no use going on about the other teams. They should have clarified it earlier.Quote:
Originally Posted by Garry Walker