That is true. For a big part of the public, he will only ever remain as the guy who got his ass slapped in some dungeon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Knock-on
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That is true. For a big part of the public, he will only ever remain as the guy who got his ass slapped in some dungeon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Knock-on
True.Quote:
Originally Posted by BDunnell
One thing that is perhaps forgotten is the fact that Max was warned he was being targeted two months before his private life was exposed. As the person discovering this said: "It was clear that Max disregarded the advice and failed to realise his vulnerability. The issue for me was his total disregard for genuine advice from individuals that he knew had his best interests at heart."
Disregarding such advice suggests a certain arrogance on Max's part; a belief that he was untouchable. Sadly for him that proved not to be the case. It was only when that particular can of worms was open that Max the private individual merged with Max the FIA President, but there was criticism of his Presidency before that, and there has been since, on issues totally unrelated to his private life.
I lie right on the very edge of the mattress, that way, I find I very soon drop off..........Quote:
Originally Posted by tamburello
Epiphany, the third Sunday after lent or whatever. Strewth, are you trying to convert us all....? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Bagwan
Private it was and private it should have remained.
All too true this:
BUT even so, it never should have happenned and afterwards, it should have died a death of silence after all the initial fussing.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1
Said so in a number of posts.
Then he files his case, and sits there in most pompous fashion, not much regard for family, and goes on about some theater for whores and his lifestyle, making it all public and proud. As such it calls his basic character into question, to say the least. And the funny most bizzar thing is that he gets away with it......
You say "certain arrogance on Max's part; a belief that he was untouchable"
well you are very wrong, because you say it in the past tense. If anything this episode has proven his arrogance to be well placed and he is untouchable
and his continued comments from him sprewing forth about who be behind the plot against his throne and dictatorship continues to prove his arrogance is very justified.
:vader:
Well, the situation as I understand it is this:
He was due to retire in October but now has said he may well stay on if the proposed changes he wants to push through don't happen.
That will give him 4 more years to finish up the court cases on the continent and nail whoever set him up.
He has already said that he may well use the power of the FIA to sanction the individual responsible for exposing his private life.
Looks like the FIA dictatorship will continue until 2013.
Was thinking exactly the same Tamb.Quote:
Originally Posted by tamburello
I beg to differ, I remember Max stating a while back that he was going to pursue all cases of slander not only for himself, but to show the press they can't get away with this. And that he was setting up a fund for people who have been victim to this tabloid trials like himself for others who are found in that position but unable to fight back because of lack of funds.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1
I genuienly believe that Max, as a victim, knows the pain this can cause, and wants to help others in similar position. Thats my opinion, but fact that he's set up a trust for this, would back that up more than him using this purely to suit his own agenda.
Because he is a public figure he's not entitled to a private sex life?Quote:
Originally Posted by trumperZ06
I think people here need to wake up, theres absolutely no case with regards to his privacy being invaded, your simply trying to justify him being caught because your morally against his way of life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garry Walker
Whilst I acknowledge that KERS, an expensive piece of kit for all teams has been implemented in extremely poor timing.
However you have to look at the circumstances within which it came about.
Regulation changes is a slow process in F1, things take years to implement etc. And the KERS idea was decided before this economic meltdown, when teams were resisting cut costs!
No one could have forseen this credit crunch, and the pace it has come about. If you look at all the 'experts' in this field, none have predicted correctly, so its unfair to lay the blame purely on Max for this.
It is making F1 more relevant, and improving its 'green' image, its just unfortunate that its collided with the credit crunch.
Whislt I appreciate your viewpoint. Its totally based on on your moral views. In the eyes of the law and in the eyes of personal freedom, he hasn't actually done anything wrong. To you he has, because of your views. In same way extreme islamics think the west are wrong. Whilst I guess from their viewpoint I can understand, at the end of the day its just a different viewpoint.Quote:
Originally Posted by markabilly
Law and order is there to protect us, and it currently stands (in western societies at least) to respect eachothers differences, including lifestyles. Moral viewpoints shouldn't be used as a form of deciding what is wrong and right on people. You can hold that view, but should discriminate them.
I suppose the sanctions would be based on the "bringing the sport into disrepute" rule.
I believe he should just shut up.
And if he's right, if there's an F1 character behind this... well boy... what a silly bot you are. You really thought shame would make this dude go? :laugh: . I think they should put his picture for shameless in the dictionaries.
The question in these cases has to be whether someone is a hypocrite. Had Max spoken out before in favour of 'family values', or something, then I would agree that he should have resigned. But he didn't.
Doesn't stop the story still being funny, though.
Absolutely. Yes he is entitled to a private life of his choosing. What he got up to was of no relevance to motorsport, or his role as FIA President until it became public. Once that happened Max the private individual merged with Max the FIA President, and that cannot be undone.Quote:
Originally Posted by PolePosition_1
But it wasn't his fault that his private life got merged with his public status.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1
If he quit, it would be a victory for tabloid journalism and in effect a true trial (for his job) by tabloid media.
Why should he quit through no fault of his own?
:dozey: Any reputable public organization, would have dumped Mad Max in a New York second, after his egregious sexual activities became known to the public.Quote:
Originally Posted by PolePosition_1
:rolleyes: The fact that he was caught (not the how)... would have ended his career.
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumperZ06
And you think that its right that being caught doing something perfectly legal, but not conformed to societies view of 'normal' should warrant his loss of professional reputation and job?
In a sense , I agree with you , that once it became public , it suddenly had relevance to motorsport , but , for a different reason .Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1
Max's private life isn't private any more , not because he was targetted by the NOTW , but because , it seems , someone from the F1 world commissioned someone to sting him .
It is not such a leap to imagine that those same people were involved in lobbying the world's member countries to oust him for the public shame that was created .
The NOTW were only sued for the Nazi allegations .
It was said that they were approached with the video .
So , it is certainly related to F1 , however , not because the man could'nt do the job then or now , rather that he was attacked by someone within the circle , or so he says .
He must decide how much damage it could do to F1 by bringing forth those names , and that may well be why he's going to leave it a few years .
;) "Moral Clauses" are written into a lot of employment contracts World-Wide to protect the parent organization from being tarnished by employees ingaged in such actions.Quote:
Originally Posted by PolePosition_1
:rolleyes: The fact that Max finds it necessary to still be talking about "being caught" shows that his actions have brought "Disrepute" to the FIA !!!
It's NOT the HOW he was caught that matters to the public !!!
It's THAT he was caught involved in inegregious actions that tarishes the FIA's image.
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumperZ06
How about the fact that someone stooped so low as to try to sting him out of office ?
How do you feel about those folks ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumperZ06
Just a simple yes or no please mate. Do you you think that its right that being caught doing something perfectly legal, but not conformed to societies view of 'normal' should warrant his loss of professional reputation and job?
If 'moral clauses' are in his contract then fair enough, but as far as I'm aware they're not.
Why does him going on about being caught mean it brought FIA into disrupute? Could it be because he saw an invasion of his privacy, and wants justice?
;) Seperate issue entirely... and not a reasonable defense for Max's activity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagwan
It's the old... "Two Wrongs still don't make a Right" !!!
Max's actions has put the FIA in "Disrepute"...
Yes, Max was "caught"... but bottom line... his actions were egregious.
That is what the Public remembers... not the "HOW" (he was caught)
but what he was caught... "DOING" !!!
I guess I should add a comment...
The fact that a "Witchhunt" caused Max to be caught is not good !!!
There is no moral justification for the "How" he was caught. Unfortunitely, this goes on... a search for incrininating evidence, and even entrapment is being done by governments, It now seems to be... common practice.
That still does not excuse Max's actions... and that is what the general public focuses on.
We are much more aware of the politics within F-1, and look beyond the press. John Q Public in most cases, only tunes in for the race, and generally doesn't read beyond the headlines.
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumperZ06
I could agree with you if Max's FIA position had any juridisdiction over any sexual matters , but it does not .
I would not expect his actions are the norm , but these habits exist , and are not illegal .
Never has anyone linked his actions within the presidency to anything sexually depraved in any way , until now .
His habits have been so for many years , as we heard , and kept very secret .
This likely took a fair amount of effort in itself , and undoubtedly a lot of cash .
So , in those days , before the scandal broke , you didn't have any misgivings about his sexual activity , only about his governance .
This is because he took the necessary precautions .
Presumably , these precautions were still in place when the sting occurred .
It has been written that he had been warned that something was up , and failed to react .
Here may be his only real un-doing in the situation , as he may not have added extra security . On the other hand , he may have . We don't know .
Further to that thought , one must presume that one must entrust certain elements of such planning to others .
Those in the "industry" with which you are dealing , are generally trusted to supply the proper "employee" .
Max would make the order , and the agency would supply the goods .
And , one would think that the agency wouldn't likely change too often , as the risk of security breach heightens hugely if that were the case .
And , speaking of breach of security , how does one protect oneself against the national security agency ? MI5 was shown to be involved .
I think it was Ron Dennis who described F1 as the "pirannha club" .
This is just another example .
But , it's an example of going too far .
Remember this :
You never knew anything about this , and had no problem with it , until someone showed you the pictures .
And..........that wasn't Max .
;) Baggie,
I do agree with you, Max likely took extra precautions, to avoid any public disclosure.
Taking your point that Max was hiding his sexually depraved activities...
seems to admit Max (while president of the FIA) was doing something inmoral,
which, if found out would be detrimental to the FIA's reputation.
:dozey: So that brings us back to:
Today,
The problem is
John Q Public's perception of Max...
After his egregious sexual activities became common knowledge.
:rolleyes: Max still is trying to deflect the public's attention away from his personal sexual activities...
by attempting to focus the press's attention on...
"Mosey knows who set him up" !!!
Ofcourse there are no moral clauses in his contract, he probably wrote his own contract and he is not as stupid as some would like to think he is. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by PolePosition_1
I wonder if it was BE or RD?! I can't think of anyone else who had reasons to try to oust Max.
That's wishful thinking. The FIA is doing very well and Max is again a public figure.Quote:
Originally Posted by trumperZ06
His detractors drummed a lot how he can't do his job anymore and other BS like that, but as soon as it was clear that there was nothing "Nazi" in his private business everyone forgot the whole story.
John Q doesn't even know who Max is, all he knows is that he can watch his favorite colored car go around a Tilke circuit for about 90 minutes every other Sunday.Quote:
Originally Posted by trumperZ06
John Q rarely even watches Qualifying, and more often than not he doesn't know what tires the cars use.
All he knows and cares about is the name of the driver, the color of the car and maybe the name of the team. ;)
And if he manages to watch more than 50% of the boring fest he might even know who won the championship at the end of the season.
There is nothing to deflect, in fact there was nothing to deflect already a few weeks after the NOTW article.Quote:
Originally Posted by trumperZ06
Agree to all three :rolleyes:
:rolleyes: Ioan, not again !!!
The average... John Q Public only tunes in for the race. He gets his information from the broadcasters who talk about the Headlines. Max's initial exposure was all over Speed TV, National News & Sports sites, and in the press.
:p : Max's sexual escapades were HEADLINES... and the NOTW web site broadcasts were viewed by millions.
The NAZI role playing... etc. were the HEADLINES.
Even Governments were commenting about Max's behavior.
:dozey: Retractions to the News (if any) only came months later, and in many cases on the back pages, or as a footnote within a broadcast.
The "man in the street" wasn't following nor interested in ~ two month old F-1 politics. He remembers the sexual exposure... not Max's whining explainations about being "set-up in a sting opperation" that followed.
People on this site are far more informed & opinionated than the casual fan, who is the "bread & butter" for F-1 revenue.
:p : Max's actions have ruined his reputation. Many leaders and heads of foreign states will no longer meet with him, and his position in the FIA has tarnished it's image.
Were is the right term. No one is doing it anymore and Max is a public person again.Quote:
Originally Posted by trumperZ06
The man in the street doesn't remember squat.Quote:
Originally Posted by trumperZ06
I bet that if you ask people on the streets about max Mosley 999 out of 1000 won't even know who he is.
So 0.1% is the maximum of the people who might be aware who he is, and out of these 50% doesn't care about how he get's it up.
That brings us to about 0.05% of people in the street sharing your view.
I'll remind people around here that more often than not a country is governed by people who are oposed by as much as 49,9% of that countries voting population.
See the difference?! ;)
Look at it this way: if the Chief Executive of HSBC was caught in a similar manner, he would have been on the next flight out of Hong Kong, tourist class.Quote:
Originally Posted by PolePosition_1
................and if the Chief Steward of the Royal Hong Kong Jockey Club (now no longer Royal) was caught in a similar manner, he'd be out quicker than you could yell "Racing"
:D The arguement isn't about what Molsey did... World opinion has already judged his actions to be inmoral. Nor are we debating Public opinion, again Molsey has been judged in the court of public opinion and found wanting.
:dozey: So we are left with the debate...
"Molsey knows who set him up" !!!
As Baggie said... Max was caught in a "STING".
The "STING"... though reprehesible does not change the facts...
nor can it erase the Video.
Molsey was caught in inmoral and egregious sexual acts while president of the FIA.
His actions by association tarnish the FIA...
Any other reputable organization would have sent him packing.
That, and that alone, has ruined Molsey's reputation.
:s mokin:
Max is the only one saying he was set up by someone from F1 but, as he says, "I am not going to do anything or say anything until I am absolutely certain."Quote:
Originally Posted by trumperZ06
So, he's not certain and cannot say who it was, but despite that he's willing to say rather a lot around the subject. That's rather like a tabloid drip feeding readers with what is supposedly a "big" story. It grabs the headlines and gets the readers in initially. "All sorts of other things are going to come out" is quite a hook. It's right up the NoTW's street!
But if Max knows then why a delay of "two or three years" before he tells? The criminal proceedings he refers to are cases he initiated against media outlets who repeated the NoTW story. Nothing to do with F1.
So why the delay? Perhaps because it's important for him to remain FIA President so that if he can convince people of this "plot" against him it'll be easier to pursuade them that he should stay on as President beyond June. If that is achieved, whether the "plot" is fact or not won't really matter. If it's not it'll quietly be forgotten (as with the Brundle case), and if it is then Max can deal out whatever sporting punishment he deems appropriate.
Sorry, but IMHO all of the above is Max putting Max's interests first, and using his position as FIA President to do so.
Far simpler is the explaination that the NoTW just did what they do week in week out - got headlines at the expense of a public figure. Jade Goody, Frank Lampard, Max Mosley, Peaches Geldof...they're all the same as far as the NoTW is concerned.
He needs to get all the details before specific accusations start. Depending on who the person is or from what company, if Mosley names them without 100% proof, he (or maybe the FIA) can get the t**s sued off them for defamation.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1
All due respect here, but the whole point of this is that who are you to say what he did was wrong?Quote:
Originally Posted by trumperZ06
By your moral standards, he did wrong, but legally he didn't. And thats what counts. So its not a case of two wrongs, as he didn't actually do anything wrong.
Very good point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagwan
Max has made a lot of enemys and IMHO, damaged F1 and other forms of Motorsport to the extent that accusations exist. Couple this with the fact that his commercial decisions regarding F1 and revenue returned to the FIA has at the very best been totallt incompetent and wholly wrong.
However, if someone had publically attacked Max for his management of the FIA, I would have been entirely behind them.
If, and I reiterate IF someone in Motorsport is guilty of this sting, then I suggest Max persues him personally through the courts and not through a personal vendetta using the might of the FIA to bestow revenge.
This has no basis in fact and is completely made up.Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
From my experience, I would take your bet that a lot more people are aware of the FIA and Max's exploits that you claim.
You are correct that it is yesterday's news and people in Government etc are not talking about it but that's because it's not relevant at the moment. I suggest though that it's at the back of their minds ;)
Mate, the more I read your posts, the more the picture of you being someone who judges someone on their activities and doesn't accept differences is reinforced.Quote:
Originally Posted by trumperZ06
So what if he has different sexual preferences which don't fit into your 'moral views'? You've obviously judged him on that, and happily willing to discriminate against him because of this.
Your a perfect examples of why we have laws in place, to make sure people aren't discriminated against for their religion or lifestyle choices.
I'm aware of the more 'right wing traditional' views in America, and I do find it slightly worrying to see all those who go on about his activities being perverted and deprived etc, tend to be from Americans in this form. Whilst I appreciate you do not represent the majority of Americans, I do find it worrying that there is a pretty fair sized minority in the worlds most powerful nation who have such narrowminded views on peoples different lifestyles.
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Originally Posted by Valve Bounce
Yes. Because its a private company, in business to make money, and perception and marketability is key to success. And unfortunately the tabloid media, who broke someones right to a private sex life would have won as he would have probably stepped down.
The FIA is not a private company, its an institution.