Yet another pointless Ferrari vs McLaren FIA thread to be closed in the near future

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

I think perhaps "after the next corner" is as reasonable a definition as there can be, and for the purposes of clarity the FIA should confirm this before there is a chance of a similar incident happening again.

Apprently the drivers are due to meet with Charlie Whiting today, so hopefully something will be done then.

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Perhaps.

The thing is with this particular instance the only time we can compare Lewis to Kimi is at the chicane and Lewis was close to Kimi but still behind. Then suddenly at the next corner Lewis is in front. Now of course Lewis had the better car for the conditions so that muddys things somewhat but he should have realised that he was not making it look like he was disadvantaged by his move by passing Kimi on the straight.

We could debate as to whether Lewis gained advantage in real terms till the cows come home but the fact of the matter is from the entry to the straight and the entry to the next corner Lewis had made a net gain and this to me is not acceptable given the fact that he took a shortcut. Lewis should have made some attempt to make it obvious that he lost out from the move and overtaking shortly after doesn't do that for me..

It's alright folks. We can put this thread to bed now. Max has spoken.

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"Any suggestion there is a bias for or against any team or driver is completely untrue, absolutely not. I think it's a reflection, and I'm sorry to say this, of the stupidity of the people who say it..."

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Oh, and although he was in Peru for the Belgian GP his immediate reaction to events at Spa was "this is going to waste a great deal of everybody's time."

Everything's back to normal :p

I agree with what he said! :D

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Originally Posted by Viktory

If Lewis said himself that he got into the tow of Kimi why can't you guys accept he did?

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Perhaps he was in the tow created by Kimi's balls???

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Originally Posted by wmcot

Perhaps he was in the tow created by Kimi's balls???

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well doesn't matter if the tow was created by the car or his balls..I am still waiting for you "experts" to show me on that video where exactly Lewis got a tow ? ;-)

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Originally Posted by Tonieke

well doesn't matter if the tow was created by the car or his balls..I am still waiting for you "experts" to show me on that video where exactly Lewis got a tow ? ;-)

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We don't need to...he said it himself.

""Fortunately I got back in his slipstream"

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,195...114566,00.html

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Originally Posted by tamburello

We don't need to...he said it himself.

""Fortunately I got back in his slipstream"

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,195...114566,00.html

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well ya..ok...nice interview...But that doesn't answer my question..I don't know much about motorsports....and want to learn more about it...so can you show me where exactly on the straight he got the tow he is talking about ?

http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=ywwgfgtx-yM

he also said he didn't do anything wrong in Spa and you did not believe him there either..so

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Originally Posted by Tonieke

well ya..ok...nice interview...But that doesn't answer my question..I don't know much about motorsports....and want to learn more about it...so can you show me where exactly on the straight he got the tow he is talking about ?

http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=ywwgfgtx-yM

he also said he didn't do anything wrong in Spa and you did not believe him there either..so

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I guess you had to be there .

He said "I got a tow" , and "I got in his slipstream..." .

To regain 6kmph , it obviously doesn't take too long with a windbreak .

That moment of tow was as he was behind Kimi . I'm sure you can find that in the video .

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Originally Posted by Tonieke

well ya..ok...nice interview...But that doesn't answer my question..I don't know much about motorsports....and want to learn more about it...so can you show me where exactly he got the tow he is talking about ?

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You get a tow from being close behind another car. As soon as Hamilton hit the throttle 100%, he would get a tow, given that Kimi's car would create a wake and Lewis was no longer feathering out the power so was ready to get into the slipstream.

A lot of people think that a driver needs to be directly behind (as in front wing tucked into the same line as the rear wing of the car in front).

As an aerodynamicist (retired), and having spent much more time working in a wind-tunnel than is actually healthy, I can categorically state that this is not the case. The best place for a slipstream 'tow' is as most people think, directly behind, but even the most aerodynamic shape, and an open-wheel car is not that, forces the wake of air to make a 'hole' that is wider than that. Therefore, up until the point where a car begins to be level with the car in front, whereupon it is actually hitting a lot of sideways air, it can gain a tow.

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

It's alright folks. We can put this thread to bed now. Max has spoken.

Oh, and although he was in Peru for the Belgian GP his immediate reaction to events at Spa was "this is going to waste a great deal of everybody's time."

Everything's back to normal :p

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So, a 3x WDC is an idiot now.

Nice to know that the FIA is impartial and the outcome of the appeal is already decided.

Perhaps he can tell us the outcome of the Championship and save everyones time as well.

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

So, a 3x WDC is an idiot now.

Nice to know that the FIA is impartial and the outcome of the appeal is already decided.

Perhaps he can tell us the outcome of the Championship and save everyones time as well.

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So now people have more common sense and better judgement because they've won a few titles? Does that mean that if Michael comes out and says the penalty is fine then it's fine on basis of rank? Oh wait.... I forgot that Michael is biased :) Gimme a break.

As I said before, there is no actual evidence of any bias on the part of the FIA. If someone is ever able to come forward with a document or a secret recording proving otherwise, then fine — I'll consider changing my view. Until then, it's nothing but a conspiracy theory. There is nothing untoward with anything Max has said about Ferrari and its place in the F1 pantheon. The remarks struck me as perfectly reasonable. Can we please, some time, move on from this?

My opinion is that when mcmerc had a rubbish car, when the engines kept blowing up - they didnt have any penalties ! As soon as they have a car that regulary beats ferrari, the best driver, and team - then the FIA have to MAKE SURE that the red team win - by demotion, penalties & so on. Check the history, it dont lie.

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Originally Posted by horse77

they didnt have any penalties !

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10 place grid penalties.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

As I said before, there is no actual evidence of any bias on the part of the FIA.

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Does a "grossly inaccurate and misleading" email, produced by the FIA to counter McLaren's efforts to present a precedent at the Spa appeal hearing count?

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

Does a "grossly inaccurate and misleading" email, produced by the FIA to counter McLaren's efforts to present a precedent at the Spa appeal hearing count?

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That's a load of crap. The incident should be judged on it's own. As many have pointed out a mistake in the past doesn't justify doing it wrong now.

McLaren should take their punishment on the chin, stfu, win the drivers title and look good for it too. But no they'll bitch, moan and whine their way through the rest of the season and probably lose the title yet again.

I'll quote from that link to show Hamilton as the arrogant little child he is. Yes I've done a little editing but I think it's appropriate :)

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A highlight was Hamilton gobbing off as usual during and exchange with Ferrari's lawyer, Nigel Tozzi QC.

'Are you a racing driver?' he asked Tozzi when challenged over his view of the incident. 'I've been racing since I was eight and I know pretty much every single move in the book and that's why I am the best at my job.'

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Originally Posted by Daniel

That's a load of crap. The incident should be judged on it's own. As many have pointed out a mistake in the past doesn't justify doing it wrong now.

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But the point is that there wasn't a mistake in the past, rather the FIA are attempting to smear Tony Scott-Andrews by claiming that he'd admitted making a mistake with the Liuzzi case when in fact he'd never said any such thing.

Does that not ring any alarm bells? :s

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Originally Posted by Dave Brockman

But the point is that there wasn't a mistake in the past, rather the FIA are attempting to smear Tony Scott-Andrews by claiming that he'd admitted making a mistake with the Liuzzi case when in fact he'd never said any such thing.

Does that not ring any alarm bells? :s

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Sorry I take that back then :)

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Originally Posted by Daniel

That's a load of crap. The incident should be judged on it's own. As many have pointed out a mistake in the past doesn't justify doing it wrong now.

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So to confirm, you think its ok to punish one driver for an incident, and not another for doing exactly the same incident?

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Originally Posted by Daniel

McLaren should take their punishment on the chin, stfu, win the drivers title and look good for it too. But no they'll bitch, moan and whine their way through the rest of the season and probably lose the title yet again.

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Well, McLaren have been penalised more than any other team this season. And some have been quite frankly totally wrong. The punishment of Alonso last year at Hungary, effectively costing Alonso the title, the contructors points removed from them.

The chicane cutting by Hamilton, where Schumacher did exactly the same, Hamilton got punished and they just said they respect the decision.

I think they know theres no point moaning and bitching about it, but there got to be a point when they have to appeal to get some kind of explanation. They seem to be "breaking these rules" and getting punished whereas other teams aren't getting punished.

I don't blame them for appealing, enough is enough, they need to get an understanding and get a clear cut answer, as the Stewards inconsistancies is costing them title after title.

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Originally Posted by PolePosition_1

So to confirm, you think its ok to punish one driver for an incident, and not another for doing exactly the same incident?

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That's not what I said...... so no you can't confirm it :)

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Originally Posted by PolePosition_1

I don't blame them for appealing, enough is enough, they need to get an understanding and get a clear cut answer, as the Stewards inconsistancies is costing them title after title.

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Really?
Who's fault was that Lewy lost a 17 points advantage in 2 races? The stewards?! Don't think so. :rolleyes:

Well in this case... 6 points. Being:

2 points which Massa gained as a result of being awarded the GP.
4 points effectively deducted from being dropped from a 10pt to a 6pt paying position.

Where do you get 17 points from? Please explain your workings and present them in front of the class :D
(set squares and compasses may be used, but standard formula sheets may not)

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Originally Posted by Rollo

Well in this case... 6 points. Being:

2 points which Massa gained as a result of being awarded the GP.
4 points effectively deducted from being dropped from a 10pt to a 6pt paying position.

Where do you get 17 points from? Please explain your workings and present them in front of the class :D
(set squares and compasses may be used, but standard formula sheets may not)

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:laugh:
I wasn't talking of this season! :p :
Last season McLaren and Lewy did lose the title on track, by Lewy's own doing (10 points lost in China and 8 in Brazil!). ;)