They will and they win the appeal IMO. And I think that if there is a punishment it shoould mirror the one at Valencia - a fine.
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They will and they win the appeal IMO. And I think that if there is a punishment it shoould mirror the one at Valencia - a fine.
i was prepared for McLaren to not get cut any slack after last year, and they have, perhaps, been dealt with harshly on a few occasions this year, but also pretty fairly, but in this case i think they have finally lost the plot - the guys raced hard and from what i saw fairly, regardless of who was involved i would call this as a stupid ruling and i hope in this case McLaren stand up and appeal, as to date this year they've (understandbly) not complained too loudly about anything but here i'd say they have the high ground, and that has taken a lot after last years events
Ia anyone really honestly surprised by this.
It's McLaren gawd darnit. I mean, the FIA would fine the team for Lewis leaving skids on in the toilet bowl.
What a pile of BS.
If Lewis kept his foot in and took the place, then its a fair call.
Lewis backed off, Kimi got ahead then Lewis passed him fairly into the next corner.
I was begininng to think F1 was back on track after a very exciting race today, but now im not sure. FIA/Stewards deserve a slap round the face and they should be ashamed.
Its a shame as Lewis drove brilliantly today.
"Ferrari Internal Assistance" :( :(
This isn't the Indy Racing League - what happens in situations like that is between the drivers - and besides if this were the case then they would need to strip Michael Schumacher of several titles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bradley
This is clearly a pathetic decision regardless of any partisan support anyone might have - it was an exciting finish to the race and that particular incident ultimately had little bearing on the outcome given the conditions of the subsequent 2 laps. It is sickening and cannot be in the sport's best interests.
An entirely predictable decision by the stewards, McLaren being penalised. Every time theres the slightest incident, they get a penalty. And yet Ferrari always get away with it. You only have to look at the last race where Massa kept the win despite nearly causing a collision in the pitlane. Yet in GP2, drivers have been penalised for similar incidents. I'm afraid there are too many examples now of the blatant bias towards Ferrari by the FIA, and stewards. The sport has become a farce, and the manufacturers should form their own breakaway series, and leave Ferrari to compete in Formula 1 by themselves, at least the FIA would get their wish of Ferrari winning every week.
a slap around the face!? deserve a brain transplant and a pair of glasses more like!
Right, I'm off to open the champagne, just as I did after the spygate hearing when, as today, justice was done.
Note to Mclaren - Don't break rules, don't get punished.
McLaren won't appeal. They know if they do, Max & Co will find they have copied Ferrari designs by using round, black tires on their car, fine them 100 million Euros, and take away their points for the 2008 season. The appeal process for anyone is a waste of time as long as the FIA decides the appeal.
Well, I hope MacLeran appeal this, and I expect them to lose, and maybe face a harsher penalty...
Its to bad for Hamilton cause had the incident happened earlier in the race they could have negotiated a let Kimi by again kinda of resolution like what happened to Alonos b4, but alas, the stewerts deemed it was worth a stop and go, which equates to 25s after the checkers which means Ron Dennis, when in doubt... don't take "we had probably complied" to equal home free...
Now is the results official? I do recall a protest that was suppose to be un-related... This 25s penalty might become moot if Hamilton gets DQ'd for whatever Ferrari are complaining about...
I actually agree that Lewis did something wrong and that he gained advantage even if he did give the place back but the penalty is absolutely undeserved. Lewis gave the place back but jumped straight into Kimi's slipstream thereby giving him an advantage compared to where he was before he went off. In my opinion if you go off and gain a position you should give it back and not in such a way that just sets you up for a pass straight after. I will say again I don't agree with the win being taken away from him though....
25 seconds isn't enough. Hamilton should be stripped of his Super License and banned from the sport for at least ten years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bradley
BTW, you might want to watch the replay and note that Kimi was also blocking, plus he ran into Hamilton's car. But that was probably Hamilton's fault too. Throw another ten years on the ban. Allow Hamilton to return to F1 when he's 43.
Load of bollocks just to closen the dc.
no the fia would ban him for bein to old
Driver's are only allowd to make one movement across the track to defend a position. I don't agree that Hamilton was out of order in this respect but I assume that's what's being referred to. Of course Kimi had pulled the same move when Lewis was catching so it should be irrelevant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby_Hamlin
But where he was before the chicane was in Raikkonen's slipstream, so there was no advantage there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
Wow - I guess my question is, when a driver takes a position illegally, how long does he have to stay behind the driver he took the position form before he can attack again? It looks to me like the stewards believe it wasn't long enough.
Kimi thinks that way too:Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
http://www.mtv3.fi/urheilu/f1/uutise...2008/09/707032
Im too lazy (like Kimi) to translate this because its finnish and most people here dont give a value for it because its not english... ;)
It's my understanding that the one move 'rule' is more of a gentleman's agreement and isn't enforced by the stewards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Jan Yeo
Exactly - he was catching Kimi quickly in adverse conditions - it wasn't a normal situation and as such some common sense ought to be applied, but of course that's far too much to ask in F1.Quote:
Originally Posted by N. Jones
How can you have an advantage at that speed in a short space of time after letting the guy back on?
the dude in front is blocking you and if he cannot hold his position then he loses the advantage of being first
if behind you still have to try and get past
Wrong understanding, but that isn't the cause of the "penalty".Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby_Hamlin
It is a rule, brought in during the late nineties. It was intended to stop some pretty scary moves during racing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby_Hamlin
I don't enjoy watching a race and then finding out that the winner didn't win. Crap penalty. Silly FIA. They will turn people off watching and just find people tuning in for the sports reports on the news at this rate.
He went off. You can't just make a mistake, go off on the grass and then let the other car by when it suits you.Quote:
Originally Posted by VkmSpouge
If Lewis has made the corner and slipstreamed Kimi and made the pass it would have been fine of course. But the thing is he didn't make the corner and he went off and gained a place and then gave it back at his leisure. If you go off there should be a disadvantage and you can't simply let the other car by when it's convenient for you and have a net gain out of the whole thing.
If you look at the incident again you'll see that Lewis made a gain out of the whole thing.
Now that I think of it this is Lewis' second offence for the same thing and although he let Kimi though he might as well not have considering how he did it and I'm actually thinking perhaps he does deserve it.
No it's a proper rule. Looking at the video it wouldn't be enforced anyway. Lewis moved across the track to block and then back across to take the racing line which is all justified.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby_Hamlin
Raikkonen has said that Hamilton fully deserved his penalty.
I agree, it was a ruthless attempt to gain ground by cutting corners. It can not be allowed.
Don't do the crime if you can't pay the fine. :)
what I saw was Lewis and kimi next to each other goin into the corner..lewis maybe even slightly in front and being pushed of the track by kimi...so what advantage for lewis when he let Kimi pass again after the corner ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
FIA should feel ashamed for this decission..very ashamed !
Yoohooo. I didnīt think theyīll do anything because it affects deeply the result of the race but they did the right thing and penalized the cheat.
Itīs just amazing how some say he gave the place back.... what an embarrassing simulation...
McLaren appeal the decision, I think that they will win.
The reverse camera angle showed slight contact between Lewis and Kimi, who was trying to push him off anyway. The only advantage Hamilton had was that he was better on the brakes than Raikkonen, I mean he had to slow his acceleration to let Kimi past, how can that be considered an advantage? If anyone gained an advantage it was Raikkonen, bloody stupid decision from bloody stupid people.
It's up to the person passing to pass the car in front. Kimi didn't need to let him go around or anything. Personally I don't think Lewis was going to make that corner with how he entered it even if Kimi's car hadn't been there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonieke
One of the most exciting race finishes and the FIA decide in their wisdom to take all the gloss away. I, like many others feel cheated and deflated. Petty officialdom needs to take a back seat and let the racing do the talking. We shouldn't be nit picking over the replays, Kimi did this, Lewis did that. It was good hard racing - why can't we just leave it at that? I just hope that Ferrari where not digging away behind the scenes (oh yes they do) in this disgraceful decision.
One thoroughly disgusted F1 fan.
Eh? How do you work that one out? Did you watch the race? Did you not notice it was wet and slippery?Quote:
Originally Posted by ICKE
Did anyone notice the high kerbs on the inside of that corner? Hamilton had no choice but to go across the tarmac on the inside, or he would have bounced straight over them, into Raikkonen and "caused a collision".
If there was a wall there would Raikkonen have had the right to squeeze Hamilton into it?
Are the stewards on the payrole of Ferrari ?
Just what is going on here ? Mclaren admitted the imformation they illegally recieved last year,they put their hands up.in the hope that it was END of the problem.They let ferrari win last year by making silly mistakes to let Ferrari win the drivers title,which was plain to see.BUT moseley still must think Ron tried to stich him up with the Sun Paper thing.Too much bad feeling here!
Mclaren needs to appeal AND get all the other teams to break away and then Ferrari have NO one to race against ,so they can win their own races,but they might then complain about the marshals
Sorry I am getting really p***ed off with these desicions,all in ferrari,sfavour it STINKS.just what did Hamilton do wrong ? We want to see pure racing,what we get now is NO overtaking or Ferrari will protest you !
Now that you mention it I'm sure if there were stairs Raikkonen would have pushed Lewis down them and slept with Lewis' brother.Quote:
Originally Posted by christophulus
Now ummm..... can we talk about things that ACTUALLY happened during the race and not what if there had been a wall or a goat or a ice cream van parked at the side of the road etc etc.
ok..even with your view of things..did that gave him advantage after the corner ? Lewis even lost advantage being next to kimi before the corner and being behind him after the corner....Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
Kimi is just pissed because he lost control and smacked the wall (yes I know it was raining) but the others up top kept control
Could we be seeing the next whinger to replace Mansell
Cue a beating from Mansell fans now
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70402Quote:
McLaren have lodged an appeal against Lewis Hamilton's demotion to third place in the Belgian Grand Prix, the FIA confirmed on Sunday night.
They are fully justified in doing so IMHO :up: It may be risky as there is the possibility the penalty could be increased, but they simply had to appeal.