As for saying JYS is a failure in F1?????????????????????????????????????
I really think he's loosing the plot. What do you think Ioan? Do you think JYS is a failure too?
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As for saying JYS is a failure in F1?????????????????????????????????????
I really think he's loosing the plot. What do you think Ioan? Do you think JYS is a failure too?
I think that you can pick up Knockie and play the useless questions games with him! He seems to have a lot of time for it, as you do. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by MAX_THRUST
So you don't have an opinion on JYS then being useless?
Oh whats Knockie when its at home???
Compare the amount of posts I make to you, I think when it comes to time on there hands you win hands down.
That's priceless. Jackie Stewart a failure? If 27 race wins and 3 Championships makes a man a failure then I never want to win at anything again!Quote:
Originally Posted by MAX_THRUST
Oh, perhaps Max [Mosley] means "failure" as a team owner. Setting up a Formula One team which took a Monaco podium in its first season and won a race in only its third year (compared with the uber-budget of, say, Toyota which has so far won bog-all); then making a handsome profit selling that team to Ford.
Not bad for a "certifiable half-wit", eh Max? :rolleyes:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
At the time MS got black-flagged at Silverstone in '94, wasn't Benetton still a British team...?
I didn't think they started to compete under Italian nationality until a couple of years later.....
How is March, these days? Such a huge success back in F1 in the seventies was it not, Max?Quote:
Originally Posted by MAX_THRUST
Why have potshots at a bloke who achieved more than many people ever did, including yourself Max?
I'm amazed that the 'neutral and public face' of F1 and indeed of all motorsport gets column inches for his tirades against the people who were made legends of the sport many years previously. If any other governing body president ever shot themselves in the foot with such comments, they would get marched out the foyer, through the door and get torn apart by the fans. Possibly. ;)
Comparing the years of the Stewart F1 team with the post 2000 era is out of order.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Brockman
The precision of the technologies involved changed to such an extent that is impossible to compare their achievements.
So the 50 years of F1 racing and success gained before 2000 is irellevent and it's only the last 8 years that matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
:rolleyes:
Lovin' the new signature, Knockie :rotflmao:
You're my hero. :kiss:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Brockman
:laugh:
I look forward to you making no comparisons between any events in the past and present ever again, then.Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
Given that the opinion voiced in your signature makes just such a judgment in favour of one driver over all others that had gone before him, despite the fact that the achievements of drivers from one era are just as hard to compare with those of other eras as are the achievements of teams (unless you're being purely statistical), I'd say that you're not averse to such comparisons when they suit you.
Me too. I think we should all have one along similar lines.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Brockman
I think you should try to understand what one means before posting.Quote:
Originally Posted by BDunnell
In the era when Stewart started his F1 team, it was fairly easy to luck into a podium or a win given the number of technical DNFs.
Nowadays this is fairly harder, because of the much higher reliability levels.
That criteria is no different to any of those that make it impossible to compare drivers from different eras. And I know full well what I and you mean before posting, thank you very much. My comprehension is actually quite adequate.Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
I wouldn't use the term "luck into" but I take your point about reliability being better today than it once was. However, winning in F1 has never been easy, or even "fairly easy".Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
The Stewart team emerged from Paul Stewart Racing, which had been very successful, and highly respected, over a number of years in a number of different racing categories. They didn't "luck into" that success either.
Mosely's more recent comments about JYS (Max appears unable to stop bullying when he's warmed to his them :rolleyes :) are again beneath contempt. To describe a 3xWDC as a "failure" is laughable. Oh, I'm sure Max has ensured that his comments were worded in a way that wouldn't attract legal action, but for an FIA President to be talking (again) about an F1 champion in these terms is bringing the sport into further disrepute.
Please give us a brake with this "bringing the the sport into further disrepute"!Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1
Coming from someone who thinks that McLaren and RD with their cheating and lying didn't do the most harm to the sport it's a bit rich and hypocrite to the highest level.
I have no doubt that the events of last year did a great deal of harm to the sport but McLaren have been fined $100m and removed from the 2007 WCC. They've been punished for their part in events.Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
That, however, is no form of defence for Max and his indefensible comments about a 3xWDC. I have little doubt that if someone in F1 (i.e. under the jurisdiction of the FIA), perhaps a team owner, described the FIA President as a "certified halfwit" and a "failure" they would be hauled in front of the FIA to explain their comments at the very least.
Please give the whole "McCheats, Ronspeak, lying etc" BS a brake then.Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
It's history, the team have been punished and the McLaren fans have accepted it.
It's a bit rich and hypocritical to ask people to stop discussing a current issue when you can't leave alone something that's done and dusted.
:rolleyes:
:up:Quote:
Originally Posted by Knock-on
Or, indeed, if one wants people to stop going on about Michael Schumacher's misdemeanours.
ioan, you always say that you're merely commenting in the same way about McLaren, etc, as others do/did about your favourite driver. I didn't like that then, and I don't like the tone of the endless moralising about McLaren now. So, please turn the record off.
If it is true, and Max does intend to stand down - who should be President of the FIA (not the F1 Boss)?
:laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1
So if a person kills another person and than goes to jail that's it he's absolved of his wrongdoings and is equal to those who never harmed anyone!
You make me laugh with your tries to ilogically back up your bias.
And how exactly is Mosely bringing the sport into disrepute by expressing his opinion about someone else?!Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1
Oh I see, it must be that way because you want to see it like that!
Your hatred for Max is puzzling me. Any chance you are Ron Dennis, Martin Withmarsh or Norbert Haug?!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knock-on
You better learn to live with it. They are proven cheaters and liars, and I do not intend to give up on my right on expressing an opinion about them.
PS: I'll be more than willing to give the team a new chance when the cheaters an liars have retired.
No. That's not what I was saying at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
1)Max is FIA President. Jackie Stewart is a champion and winning constructor in the sport that the FIA governs.Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
2) "Certified halfwit" is not opinion, it's an insult. Describing Stewart as a failure is factually incorrect.
So, you think it's OK for you to ask people to stop expressing their opinion as they have a right to do but see no hypocrisy in harping on about something historical which has no relevance to the current subject.Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
No problem, you have a right to do that but do you ever wonder why very few people take you seriously?
Yes, yes, I know. Nobody takes me seriously yada, yada, yada will be the response. :laugh:
Still, I do try and use facts to back up my opinions where you generally refuse when challenged.
Come on, do you really believe half the stuff you argue about?
That's exactly what you were saying. Than offender should be considered absolved of his guilt after being punished.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1
I don't see it that way.
Why isn't certified halfwit an opinion :?:Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1
And for whatever reason Stewart sold his team and went on to become a noisy old man often talking BS. In fact his opinions are very biased towards British teams and drivers.
I'm still to see any proof, of the sport being brought into disrepute by Mosley, from Arrows or from you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Knock-on
You can post your opinion, he can post his, but I dare to challenge it as long as what you post is only BS.
OK, what is the criteria for bringing the sport into disrepute. It's hardly a measurable quality.Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
Is it having the President refused entry to GP's?
Is it international ridicule in the media.
Is it people in pubs who never knew who Max was laughing about his antics?
Is it being paid to sell the commercial rights of F1 for a 10th of their value?
Is it lying to the media?
Is it conducting a personal vendetta against a team?
Is it insulting a 3 times WDC and ambassador for the sport?
I've lots more. So, what is your measure or shall we dispose with the semantics of the word and say that someone that has committed just 1 of those misdemeanours isn't fit to run the FIA.
No. I can't see how could they do it!Quote:
Originally Posted by Knock-on
Not sure I understand the sentence! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Knock-on
Didn't see anyone doing it around here. People hardly know who Max is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Knock-on
What does that have to do with the sport being brought into disrepute?!Quote:
Originally Posted by Knock-on
You talking about Ron Dennis?Quote:
Originally Posted by Knock-on
What vendetta? What team?Quote:
Originally Posted by Knock-on
How can you call ambasador of the sport someone who denigrates the sport?! Who talks about witch hunts and so on?!Quote:
Originally Posted by Knock-on
Bring it on then, maybe we find something really valuable, that would support your allegations.Quote:
Originally Posted by Knock-on
The day when teams and / or will quit the sport because of Mosley, I will acknowledge he that he was detrimental to the sport.Quote:
Originally Posted by Knock-on
However there is no such, only the BS you and Arrows dreamed up.
To be fair to both parties here...JS was and still is a great driver. His mouth, on the other hand, is not so great :(Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1
No ioan, again that's your interpretation. Exactly what I said was "McLaren have been fined $100m and removed from the 2007 WCC. They've been punished for their part in events" i.e. they've been found guilty and punished.Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
It would seem that you would continue to punish an offender, any offender, despite them having served the sentence imposed by the relevant authority. Doing so appears to be the only defence you have for Max Mosley.
The FIA President's comments about Jackie Stewart are a different issue. Yes, Max made them in the light of JYS expressing his opinion of the way the FIA dealt with the McLaren case, but in my view the comments have been insulting and totally inappropriate for an FIA President to make of an F1 World Champion.
For a comparison take a look how one team owner disagreed with JYS's opinion expressed about his own team:
It wouldn't have been hard for the FIA President to express his disagreement in a similar way, but then it wouldn't have been Max would it. Max holds a grudge and two issues stand out in that respect. 1) JYS was not entirely complimentary about car Max's March organisation provided to the Tyrrell team for much of the 1970 season, and then 2) the demands from the FIA of the Stewart F1 team to provide guarantees that they had the finances in place to compete in their second season.Quote:
"I have enormous respect for Sir Jackie, he was one of grand prix racing's truly great world champions. Equally, we're always willing to accept constructive criticism... .the fact is that Sir Jackie retired from motor racing in 1973, which is 35 years ago, and the sport has moved on in that time...
Nice to see the patented ioan automatic post generator throwing that one out again...Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
Now you've done it.Quote:
Originally Posted by BDunnell
Go straight to the "Max Hater, Ron Luvver, Fanboy" club for that one!!
Do not go, do not collect £200.
:laugh:
But Ron Dennis was responding to Stewarts opinion that Kovalianen be a de-facto Number 2, which is not in itself an insult.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1
Whereas stating that the FIA was indulging in a witch-hunt against Mclaren, with all the intentional imagery of a witch-hunt being totally without facts to back up a verdict but rather the actions of a collective hatred, was utterly incorrect and, as Max rightly pointed out, had Stewart been a party to the facts as the FIA had in their possesion, then he wouldn't have made such a daft statement.
For me, Stewart insulted the FIA and in doing so insulted its President....he therefore deserved an insult in return.
I really, really feel you treat the FIA and its President with undue reverence. You seem to suggest that it and he are beyond criticism. Do you apply the same reasoning to, for example, politicians of the parties you don't support, or do you consider them fair game for insults?Quote:
Originally Posted by tamburello
It's sort of pathetic to see people cheering on his retirement without having any idea what he's done.
Your problem is that you expect people in such positions to have high standards of conduct and morals....Quote:
Originally Posted by Knock-on
Problem is and remains it is NO longer behind closed doors.....and while I ignored the NOTW stuff, when he took the stand and said what he did say and described what he has done, in public, all to win some rinky dink lawsuit where all of the enormous sum of chump change of $120k (for Max in comparsion to his 300 million and $70k per year apartment for his prostitute) goes to charity, and all those fees to lawyers, well now the real inside view of max is out....and the behavior described in these two posts is demonstrated as perfectly consistent with a perverted, sadistic state of mind, and the moral character one would expect of an untrustworthy pimp who does not know the meaning of honesty.Quote:
Originally Posted by Knock-on
What you must understand that while some might expect better behavior from someone in that position, for some others with the vested interests, it is merely an insignifigant matter of no concern,.......but if it were RD doing something like that, we all know where certain Maxie supporters would be jumping, with both feet.
Hypocrisy and being "exonerated" by the sole testimony of his group of whores is really demonstrating the higher level of hypocrisy and depravity then I thought rationally possible from someone in such a position.
The actions of "Mac cheaters" is different from max's own admitted behavior, because he was lieing, stealing and cheating on people he allegedly loved rather than competitors like Mac was doing. How much more likely is he to lie and steal from those who are business asociates and others? Well duuuh :rolleyes:
True, but it is a question RD has answered time and time again, so he could have fired off a dismissive response. Instead, his tone was respectful while still rejecting JYS's view.Quote:
Originally Posted by tamburello
I think the point that JYS was not a party to the full facts is an important one. Few people had all the facts, but on the basis of the facts available there was an impression (JYS was not alone in holding this view) that the FIA were over zealous in their pursuit of McLaren. He was perfectly entitled to express his view, just as Max was perfectly entitled to refute that opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by tamburello
However, to refute the opinion in the way that he did was, as Damon Hill wrote in his letter to Autosport, "nothing other than a wicked joke designed to visit the utmost humiliation on its victim...It is conduct most unbecoming of an FIA president and, in my humble view, brought the sport into disrepute, a crime he seems so keen to eradicate...I would like to emphasise that my motive for writing is sheer indignation and outrage at what I see as abuse."
Strong stuff, but there was (and remains) a view that Max 'crossed a line' with his comments.
Interesting article, keeps describing woman E as being morally bankrupt, lack of morality and decency, lack of loyalty and faith...funny I can not tell there is any difference between Woman E and Maxie....indeed, at first thought the article was refferring to him
http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpa...s_art_id=35634
But when you wrestle with pigs in the mud....birds of a feather hang together...fruit don't fall far from the tree..... :D
All things considered the FIA and Max deserve each other
Not in max's mind. As a practioner of sadism, his punishment of JYS crossed no lines. Indeed it brought no blood. Therefore "utmost" is hardly an appropriate term for Max's behavior.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1
Strange that Hill would write:"nothing other than a wicked joke designed to visit the utmost humiliation on its victim...It is conduct most unbecoming of an FIA president and, in my humble view, brought the sport into disrepute, a crime he seems so keen to eradicate...I would like to emphasise that my motive for writing is sheer indignation and outrage at what I see as abuse."
Well now, imagine that. Damon Hill has more insight as Max's mental state than I would have thought possible at the time he wrote that. Hill's opinion has now been proven true as what Hill describes "abuse" and "humilation on its victim" is merely conduct consistent with max's own court testimony as to his real character and joys in life.
BINGO :D
And one could add in the following from the same letter:"Regardless or not of whether he was alluding to his dyslexia, what he said was a gross insult to one of the sport's leading figures over the last four decades and a thrice world champion. Not only is it bad manners, it also calls into question the character and judgment of the man who represents motor sport throughout the world through the august institution of the FIA." No way it could call that into question, as after all, max has been "vindicated" :laugh: , but does leave open the question as with that insight into Max's judgment and character, did Hill know someone in M15......
And I forgot to add, how much hypocrisy does it take to distinguish between actually beating "make beleive" prisoners in a prison camp while wearing a german military jacket is very different from wearing a military jacket with nazi sysmbols while actually beating make-believe prisoners..where the former constitutes "vindication" and the latter does not.
sadism, racism and nazism are fundamentally the same mental disease and have the same foundation for inflecting brutality on those laid helplessly before them--a desire to inflict pain on those who are thought to be inferior and unworthy of respect because they are members of a certain group, be they "half-wits", jewish, female or male, black, brown or whatever.