GM to Reduce NASCAR Funding

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I know there are many reasons GM is pulling back on NASCAR funding but I just wonder if one of the reasons they are is because the lack of NASCAR fans being patroitic to the brand. That's more NASCAR's short comming than GM or Fords though.

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I think as long as GM was making the payroll, not as many questions were being asked about racing sponsorships in NASCAR. No one was really having to prove that a certain level of funding equated to a certain level of marketshare. NASCAR delivers fantastic sponsor exposure value. But if your products are out of favor, what is that sponsor exposure value worth?

The best piece I've read about automotive sponsorships in that past few years was about Toyota getting into NASCAR. You'd think they would have gotten into Cup competition to sell more Camrys. But their NASCAR involvement (both CTS and Cup) was more about creating an image that would sell more Tundras. I thought that was pretty interesting.

Japanese cars? How many "Japanese" cars are made in the U.S.? How many "American" cars are made in other countries? This is another misconception Americans have too? My Ford, I believe has a Mazda engine, for example. It's a global economy, products get made everywhere, probably where it's the cheapest (i.e. walma**). Sam Walton(?) might be rolling in his grave today. And from personal experience, most of their stuff is sh**.

Sorry for getting a little off topic, too much coffee.

It makes sense for GM to Cut the Corvette Racing Program. Doubt that program helps sell any cars.

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Originally Posted by Haulin'AssAndTurnin Left

It makes sense for GM to Cut the Corvette Racing Program. Doubt that program helps sell any cars.

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Production car racing sales more cars than NASCAR.

The Corvette Racing program developes actual technology that goes into GM's road cars. NASCAR doesn't.

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Originally Posted by call_me_andrew

The Corvette Racing program developes actual technology that goes into GM's road cars. NASCAR doesn't.

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Ding! Ding! We have a winner!
The NASCAR formula needs a total makeover. Persisting with what is essentially a 1950's iron block pushrod V8 with a carbureter for a fuel system...this is beyond archaic. It is time for the manufacturers and NASCAR to jointly agree on a smaller displacement replacement engine formula that has some relevance to road cars.

Those who would change NASCAR need to realize :
1. NASCAR is making big money with that "beyond archaic" technology ...
2. NASCAR is riding a huge wave of fan popularity ...
3. NASCAR is commanding big price tags from sponsors that are lining up ...
4. NASCAR is successful & secure financially, enough said. http://www.motorsportforum.com/forum...ongue-anim.gif

In respect to the issue of increasing technology in motorsports,
look @ CART/ChampCar, they went under & the IRL continues to struggle,
their technology didn't/doesn't help them stay afloat, in fact failure seems immenent.

Some say bring high technology to NASCAR, I say NO THANK YOU !!! http://www.motorsportforum.com/forum...ongue-anim.gif
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Now back to the topic of GM reducing NASCAR funding,
GM can do that but Toyota will step up & in the end it could cost GM big. http://www.motorsportforum.com/forum.../icons/eek.gif

Well of course they're making money. They have a monopoly. Since most news outlets aren't interested, the IRL could have a better product and no one would ever know it. It's like one of those movies or TV shows that gets good reviews from critics and no one watches, but it goes on to blow everyone away in DVD sales.

It's not popular, it's just ubiquitous. It's like Windows and Apple. People don't buy them because they're the best. They buy them because they think those are the only choices.

Technology didn't kill CART. The IRL killed CART. If technology killed racing, Formula One would have keeled over years ago.

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Originally Posted by gshevlin

Ding! Ding! We have a winner!
The NASCAR formula needs a total makeover. Persisting with what is essentially a 1950's iron block pushrod V8 with a carbureter for a fuel system...this is beyond archaic. It is time for the manufacturers and NASCAR to jointly agree on a smaller displacement replacement engine formula that has some relevance to road cars.

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2000cc, unrestricted, forced induction engines! YES......!

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Originally Posted by RaceFanStan

Those who would change NASCAR need to realize :
1. NASCAR is making big money with that "beyond archaic" technology ...
2. NASCAR is riding a huge wave of fan popularity ...
3. NASCAR is commanding big price tags from sponsors that are lining up ...
4. NASCAR is successful & secure financially, enough said. http://www.motorsportforum.com/forum...ongue-anim.gif
In respect to the issue of increasing technology in motorsports, look @ CART/ChampCar, they went under & the IRL continues to struggle, their technology didn't/doesn't help them stay afloat, in fact failure seems immenent.

Some say bring high technology to NASCAR, I say NO THANK YOU !!! http://www.motorsportforum.com/forum...ongue-anim.gif
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Now back to the topic of GM reducing NASCAR funding,
GM can do that but Toyota will step up & in the end it could cost GM big. http://www.motorsportforum.com/forum.../icons/eek.gif

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1. Yes
2. It's a little flat now, but that may be due to the economy.
3. Top teams still yes, but mid pack or worse it's getting very hard to find sponsorship.
4. Books aren't open, but yes they should be doing just fine.
CART/IRL had nothing to do with technology, just old fashion greed and lust for power.
If GM gets out they may just see Honda, Mercedes or BMW want to get in.

Personally I'd like to see a modern F/I 4.0-4.5L engine, which would also allow about 200-300lb weight reduction on the car which should help the car turn better and be safer.

Things are not getting better in Detroit, they're getting worse. And as long as the series and teams depend on the Big 3 (and Toyota) for a significant portion of their sponsorships, NASCAR may have to bend some to keep the money flow near current levels. The current arrangement is good for NASCAR. But the Big 3 seem to be expressing the belief that it's not so great for them.

While Honda may eventually come in, I don't see premium brands like Mercedes, BMW, Audi or Volvo coming in - especially with the current engine package. No disrespect intended, but NASCAR's core demographic isn't one that those makers tend to focus on.

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Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior

While Honda may eventually come in, I don't see premium brands like Mercedes, BMW, Audi or Volvo coming in - especially with the current engine package. No disrespect intended, but NASCAR's core demographic isn't one that those makers tend to focus on.

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I don't see Honda in NASCAR any time soon.
Their plate is full with IRL, not to mention they have been dabbling in Rally the past few years.
If NASCAR wanted to they could have ten different manufacturers but they would have to go through some major changes.
1st thing would be to start using production chassis and modern power plants.

I for one would love to see NASCAR look more like this...
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g2...k/00/07cts.jpg

Cadillac is a GM company & GM is to reduce NASCAR funding ...
so don't hold your breath waiting for Cadillac to come to NASCAR http://www.motorsportforum.com/forum...s/rolleyes.gif

I was talking about having a more production type car, and was just putting a little visual aid allong with the message. I don't see Cadillac ever being involved in NASCAR but that is one of the best race cars GM has ever built.

They can't make a COT look like a Cadillac ... http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g2...ink/orn/00.gif

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Originally Posted by RaceFanStan

They can't make a COT look like a Cadillac ... http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g2...ink/orn/00.gif

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That is exactly what I was saying, "Major Changes". Going from that over grown go-cart chassis with a shell that somewhat looks like a car to an actual production chassis to attract more manufacturers into the formula. Modified of course... The term N A S C A R actually started out with a "stock car"(you can do the research if you don't believe me) meaning a production car built to sale to the public. The COT would become the COY (car of yesterday). Or the CY because your not suppose to abbreviate conjunctions in english. :s mokin:

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Originally Posted by Saabaru

I don't see Honda in NASCAR any time soon. Their plate is full with IRL,

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Do you mean the IRL that just signed a TV deal with Versus? HAHA, the IRL is a complete and utter joke of a racing series.

Honda isn't pumping much into the IRL. They have a spec mule-motor that's the same for each and every team, dumbed down to make them last, since competition in the motor department is not allowed.

The "engine room" for an IRL team is the closet where they store the crate the motor came in.

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Originally Posted by Saabaru

That is exactly what I was saying, "Major Changes". Going from that over grown go-cart chassis with a shell that somewhat looks like a car to an actual production chassis to attract more manufacturers into the formula. Modified of course... The term N A S C A R actually started out with a "stock car"(you can do the research if you don't believe me) meaning a production car built to sale to the public. The COT would become the COY (car of yesterday). Or the CY because your not suppose to abbreviate conjunctions in english. :s mokin:

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going to cot was a major change
you will have a long wait for it to go away :p

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Originally Posted by Lee Roy

Do you mean the IRL that just signed a TV deal with Versus? HAHA, the IRL is a complete and utter joke of a racing series.

Honda isn't pumping much into the IRL. They have a spec mule-motor that's the same for each and every team, dumbed down to make them last, since competition in the motor department is not allowed.

The "engine room" for an IRL team is the closet where they store the crate the motor came in.

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I understand Wayne & Garth are going to be hosting a new IRL related show on Versus. You know it's bad when you're just a step above public access for the majority of your races.

Yeah, other than whatever money Honda (Japan) provides for Mutoh's "Formula Dream" ride at AGR, I'm not aware that Honda North America is doing much with the IRL. Most of their efforts seem to be focused on the Acura ALMS prgram now.

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Originally Posted by Saabaru

I don't see Honda in NASCAR any time soon. Their plate is full with IRL, not to mention they have been dabbling in Rally the past few years.

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I'm not suggesting that Honda's entry is imminent. But of the brands in the N.A. market, Honda (with the Accord) would make the most sense from a demographic standpoint.

The Honda IRL engine program was pretty much farmed out to Ilmor years ago. I think Comptech has a piece of that too, but don't quote me on that. Honda supports some import drag racing, SCCA efforts and other small endeavors. But other than the Acura ALMS program, I'm not aware that HPD has much going on in the way of race engine development.

BTW, I love the idea of NASCAR getting back to cars that are more stock in appearance. And yeah, the Caddy CTS-V is a sweet looking machine. Several people at the LGR plant have posters and pictures of the race car crossing the finish line in 1st. IMO, it was a mistake to drop the funding for the SCCA program. But I don't see NASCAR backing up on the CoT, even though many fans don't get hyped about spec cars. Until the checks stop rolling in, nothing will change (IMO).

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Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior

Until the checks stop rolling in, nothing will change (IMO).

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Oh, NASCAR won't change until they are almost bankrupt or they start losing to many teams. But they have the potential to be more than they are right now; more top teams, more manufacturers and more fans.

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Originally Posted by Lee Roy

The "engine room" for an IRL team is the closet where they store the crate the motor came in.

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Which is exactly how it should be! Don't you find Ford vs. Chevy more interesting than Roush vs. Hendrick?

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Originally Posted by call_me_andrew

Which is exactly how it should be! Don't you find Ford vs. Chevy more interesting than Roush vs. Hendrick?

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I would be happy with either Ford vs. Chevy OR Roush vs. Hendrick. But Honda vs. nobody is a joke.

The rules in NASCAR are so narrow and outdated in the engine department they might as well be built in one shop and distributed from a "closet".

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Originally Posted by Saabaru

The rules in NASCAR are so narrow and outdated in the engine department they might as well be built in one shop and distributed from a "closet".

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Mr. Saabaru, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

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Originally Posted by tstran17_88

Mr. Saabaru, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

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Bwahahahahahaha... I like that, that's the funniest thing I've heard all night! :D

:D

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Originally Posted by call_me_andrew

Which is exactly how it should be! Don't you find Ford vs. Chevy more interesting than Roush vs. Hendrick?

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Outside of Porsche and Ferrari, the manufacturers tend to either bring in travelling hired guns or they badge engines built by specialty houses. At least Roush and Hendrick are using Ford and Chevy designs as a basis in NASCAR. In other series, when the Ford was really a Cosworth and the Chevy was really an Ilmor, that was more a check writing contest than anything else IMO. Heck, even Honda is farming out the heavy lifting (in the IRL) these days.

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Originally Posted by tstran17_88

Mr. Saabaru, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

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He's got a point. Most teams just import their engines from other teams. All Ford engines are built by Roush now. All Toyota engines come from TRD.

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Originally Posted by Lee Roy

The "engine room" for an IRL team is the closet where they store the crate the motor came in.

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Ummmm? Why attack me...

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Originally Posted by call_me_andrew

He's got a point. Most teams just import their engines from other teams. All Ford engines are built by Roush now. All Toyota engines come from TRD.

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when Lee Roy made the comment :confused: I was just pointing out the obvious.

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Originally Posted by call_me_andrew

He's got a point. Most teams just import their engines from other teams. All Ford engines are built by Roush now.

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Roush Fenway is financing the engine operation, but Doug Yates is still the engine builder. The engines are built in Mooresville where RYR used to be located, all though I don’t think it’s in the same shops. (YR is now in the same subdivision as RF in Concord). There is only one other team running Fords in Cup and neither the Wood Bros or YR could afford to build their own engines and stay in business.

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Originally Posted by call_me_andrew

All Toyota engines come from TRD.

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So if TRD supplies all the teams with a buttoned up crate engine, why would JGR still need to have a guy like Mark Cronquist (JGR engine builder) on the payroll?

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Originally Posted by tstran17_88

So if TRD supplies all the teams with a buttoned up crate engine, why would JGR still need to have a guy like Mark Cronquist (JGR engine builder) on the payroll?

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Yes, Toyota does instruct it's teams not to modify their crate engines. Cronquist's job is to read spark plugs, make fine adjustments to the carburetor and timing, and check for metal in the oil.

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Originally Posted by call_me_andrew

Yes, Toyota does instruct it's teams not to modify their crate engines. Cronquist's job is to read spark plugs, make fine adjustments to the carburetor and timing, and check for metal in the oil.

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Sounds like he's more of an engine tuner now instead of the head engine builder...so you think they cut his salary to match?

Just announced on the news. The deal for Penske to take over Saturn has fallen through and GM will shut down the Saturn brand.

Got a link?

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Originally Posted by Chaparral66

Got a link?

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http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=8715058

GM reducing funding for NASCAR? So much for win on Sunday, sell on Monday eh? I read most of the posts here....wont delve into most of it.

I will just say this: IF winning on the weekend sold cars, then with GM's pounding the crap out of the GT world in sportscar and the way Jimmie and the boys keep winning NASCAR races, then why did GM go broke? It means little...and probably some gov't bean counter at GM HQ who is overseeing the restructuring since they now own a piece of the action probably started asking awkward questions. GM raced before because they liked it, and they could always find the money in the past. Those days are over.