Well his goal propably is somewhere else that IRC.Quote:
Originally Posted by RS
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Well his goal propably is somewhere else that IRC.Quote:
Originally Posted by RS
The IRC, IMHO, is starting to provide a relatively healthy alternative to the currently lacklustre WRC, but will this only be short term?
I notice Monte Carlo organisers are pleading for media coverage next year
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/69162
Poll update; WRC leading on 45% while the IRC has 30% of the votes
http://rallybuzz.stagetimes.com/vote...-poll-wrc-irc/
The IRC, IMHO, is starting to provide a relatively healthy alternative to the currently lacklustre WRC, but will this only be short term?
It depends how long time eurosport is interested, when IRC started i remember that some people spoke about several hours coverage/event, well I dont think its true really, the coverage is not very good, and a big part is from the service park.
As I've just had satellite TV installed, I watched the coverage of Rally Russia on Eurosport. To be quite frank the TV coverage was awful - you couldn't really hear the cars as the voice over was too loud! And I thought the WRC coverage was bad. Not good at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomi
Hänninen is quite clearly the best pwrc driver at the moment. He is not leading the series just because in Greece his car suffered from technical problems as almost all other cars as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by WRC1
I guess that Hänninen has won 50-80% of stages he has done this year pwrc.
In my view Hänninen is the most promising young finn. Give that guy proper wrc and he is at the top level after one year (like Latvala). Last year he was already beating stage times of H. Solberg and likes with private Mitsubishi wrc.
One interesting feature in Hänninen is that he has never retired the rally due to crash (according to Chris Biewer). He has suffered few incidents but has never left the rally due to crash.
Jean-Pierre Nicolas said: “It’s been another closelyfought
rally, in which we at Eurosport Events have been very happy to seef the emergence of
an exciting new talent in the shape of Juho Hanninen. He seems set to be the latest in the
long line of Finns that have lifted the profile of the sport, and we hope to see him out on the
IRC again soon.”
He for sure has big potential, what never stops to amaze me is that even the events are new he is on the pace right away.
Hopefully he will get a WRC for a few events next year, a Citroen or Ford would be good.
Belive me, put Latvala in S2000 car and he will be beaten by Rossetti. Of course in opposite direction is the same situation.
If a driver is in WRC that doesn't mean he is fast, in 80% of cases he has money and is average.
In other series that is not so obvious.
I can see very silly comments here, how you can compare series by length of their tv coverage? VERY BIG LOL
http://www.motorsportforums.com/foru...ons/icon14.gifhttp://www.motorsportforums.com/foru...ons/icon14.gifhttp://www.motorsportforums.com/foru...ons/icon14.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by "
Don't wory, the paint is not dry enough yet! :D :D
Ok, I'm going back to ERC section, it's a miracle I wrote anything here!
In the beginning IRC promised to have 8 hours worth of coverage from every event on Eurosport, ofcourse they forgot to tell that this 8 hours includes all re-runs and Eurosport Apac as well but if you are happy with this then by all means. It just happens to be that a good media and especially TV coverage is a must in modern world for succesfull series and if the current coverage is any indication of the overall quality of IRC then it won't take long before it's gone by the wind...Quote:
Originally Posted by Raven
So both IRC and WRC are boring then, that settled that.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyRAC
I know, but if the Ypres rally had Loeb, Hirvonen, Latvala, Sordo, P.Solberg, Galli etc. then Loix wouldn't stand a chance of winning it. That's my main problem with the IRC. The drivers simply aren't world class, and I want to see the best.Quote:
Originally Posted by RS
I only watch it from time to time to have a look at the beautiful Abarth cars.
I'll still watch as much WRC. Maybe support Sordo or Ogier if he proves to be really good. I would still love to see Loeb win a drivers title for Ford though.Quote:
Originally Posted by RS
From all the drivers you are mentioning, i am sure that only Loeb and maybe Sordo could fight for victory. The rest wouldn't make anything in Ypres as they are just not fast enough on asfalt, ans certainly not on the asfalt of Ypres stages. It is a very specific event where not to many drivers would stand a chance if Loix don't have problems.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeD
I wouldn't be so sure of that. Don't forget that the other fast Belgian driver, Duval, was kicked his ass by Loix in the Condroz rally the first day. With kicked ass I mean he was a little bit faster. Now Duval happens to be the only driver who could match the speed on asphalt of Loeb and even beat him (I'm looking forward to Germany).Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeD
Loix is a topclass driver, as are some others in IRC. So don't put them on the 'not-world-class-shelf', just because they don't have the money to pay the 'world-class' drive. There are BTW more non-world-class drivers in the WRC then there are of the world-class type...
Now to evaluate your list, on tarmac Loix is certainly faster than Galli, P Solberg, Hirvonen and Latvala. For sure Basso, Vouilloz, Rosetti, Kopecky are as fast or a bit faster/slower than Loix, so imagine what a great competition on an asfalt we would have, if they could all pay the drive.
Telling IRC is for 'slower' drivers is easy talk. I hope we will see Loeb in Monte next year, in a C2 S1600, next to guys like Kris Meeke and Guy Wilks in a topclass FWD car. Let's see who's ass will be kicked then. ;)
That's brave statement. In Peugeot Loix was trashed by Grönholm in asphalt. In normal conditions he was 1 sec/km slower than Grönholm. Only in spesific Belgium event could Loix challenge drivers you mentioned.Quote:
Originally Posted by HaCo
The time that Loix was in Peugeot 307, it was only in Monte Carlo that he had the opportunity to have the same car as Gronholm. He was sacked by Peugeot after only three events, because he was complaining about the car. The same complaints that later on were proven by other drivers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Finni
The time they put him back in the car (like in Deutschland) he didn't have a decent car, it was stupid Provera with his cigar that only supported Gronholm. Remember also what happened with Carlsson and Bengue in this bul second car. I remember very well the time that Gronholm and Loix were both in Toyota Celica's in Bianchi Rally, and Gronholm didn't touch any wood, he was loosing about a second each kilometer against Loix.
The time he was driving with Mitsu together with Makinen it was Finnish maffia who blocked his career. Let's not make a joke off it, i liked Gronholm very much as a driver but i am very sure that Loix can equal him on asfalt.
He is not as talented as Duval but is for more PR-friendly and still very fast on asfalt. He could not match with the finnisch drivers on gravel, but the times he had a decent car, he did rather well. I rest my case now. :D
[quote="wwbroe"] it was Finnish maffia who blocked his career./QUOTE]
Who actually is this maffia, who has so much power that they can block someones carreer? Im sure you dont mean Mitsu testdriver.
If Loix would have had the same freedom as he had with Toyota. The unfortunate Richard Burns would probably be able to tell us more about the time with Mitsu next to Makinnen. Others can tell a lot about the 307 as well, of course Mr Gronholm himself.
Of course, these are just reasons to show why Loix never made it to the top and you're right, he didn't. But tell that he is a second slower than Gronholm every km on asphalt is far out of boundaries. Who knows Gronholm will do the same as Auriol does, pick up an S2000 and challenge the IRC guys. Both Gronholm and Auriol think the IRC is a lot more fun and relaxed than the 'almost F1' WRC.
Anyway, Gronholm is no longer in WRC. So he doesn't count any more in the 'world class drivers of WRC' shelf, although he is a TOP driver. So how many 'top class WRC' drivers are there left and do they bring more excitement than IRC?
I hope so, cause the more, the better. I'm happy there are 2 championships so we have to luxury to pick one or even both which I'm doing right now. :)
And you have something to back this up?Quote:
Originally Posted by HaCo
I thought this bs was allready past us :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by wwbroe
Why dont you tell, instead of running behind the back of a dead driver, you are the one who make the accusations!Quote:
Originally Posted by HaCo
I am also a Belgian and I must say that I was never impressed about Loix in the Mitsu period. He made too much mistakes and was never able to fight for the victory in that years. In the Hyundai, he showed some speed and especially in Sweden with a broken feet.
It is a shame that a real rally legend as Grönholm is compared by Loix, who has never won a rally in the WRC. Loix is also not so fast as I expected in IRC this year. Last year, it was the car in IRC, in Condroz he retired without a good reason.
Well, the former Mitsu testdriver certainly had something to do with it, together with a certain manager that you Finn's know certainly very well. He is the one that makes or brakes careers. But to me it is not all that important anymore, i enjoy IRC as i do enjoy WRC, alltough i enjoyed the WRC a lot more in the "old" days. That is the main reason that i am visiting more IRC events now, instead off WRC events. I am still going but not as much as i used to be. For me it is not all that important, i was just reacting on something Finny wrote about Loix, thats all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomi
Again you refer to that Lampi and Jouhki has done something, but not what, also you could tell us what is teamboss Cowans part in this conspiracy, and the most important, what did Mitsu as a team benefit by sabotage the other driver.Quote:
Originally Posted by wwbroe
Why did Finns started to b**t IRC right from the begining? Do they think rallying belongs to them and everything in rally has to evolve around them?
Rallying is a sport with too many different aspects, everyone is free to enjoy the parts he likes most. IRC may not be better, but it's different and it has its audience. I hope we can agree at least on that one.
I don't think there was anything malicious to it, simply the Mitsubishi was a very specific car which pretty much only Makinen ad Burns got along with. The results of McRae and Delecour were pretty awful in the post Makinen years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomi
It had a different transmission set up to the other WRCars and I guess Lampi knew how Makinen liked to drive so it was quite natural for the car to be developed to his taste as a world champion and not the No.2 driver.
Something to do with there being no Finnish round, few Finnish drivers and a large amount of asphalt? Of course it can't be a serious championship unless a Finn is winning!Quote:
Originally Posted by jparker
;) Only teasing.
Lol, no rallying I think belongs everyone, but the question was, What is currently best - WRC or IRC.Quote:
Originally Posted by jparker
This I have heard too, that because of the transmission there was a delay not many could cope with.Quote:
Originally Posted by RS
Yeah first poor-Freddy was trashed by Mitsu and then by Peugeot. Bad, bad manufacturers.
This thread has gone beyond smart discussion. We should probably do own thread about malicious conspracies by Peugeot and Mitsu toward poor little Freddy..
Question with no possible answer, but I asked another question and you choose not to answer. When somebody starts bashing something with no particular reason, then questions arise.Quote:
Tomi 02:33 17th Jul 08
Lol, no rallying I think belongs everyone, but the question was, What is currently best - WRC or IRC.
What bashing?Quote:
Originally Posted by jparker
Wim, you're right. It's not 'right' to compare Gronholm with Loix, Gronholm has got very much WRC wins and even the championship. But in terms of speed, would he be much faster than Loix (1sec/km like one stated here?) and apart from Loix, so much faster than the other IRC boys? I still don't think so and I still hope one day the fast men of WRC and IRC will meet in the same type of cars on the same rally, I think that would be a great rally.
(Was Panizzi so much faster than the other IRC boys last year, in a car he helped developing, he was the WRC asphalt specialist, wasn't he?)
It's so easy to say, the drivers in IRC are just the slower WRC's ones who didn't made it (like Loix and Kopecky) to the top. But 'speed' is not the only thing that makes or brakes career.
And IF the WRC drivers are so much faster then the IRC drivers, so wath? If the the rallies are exciting and the drivers are fighting for seconds, I think it is great already.
Kopecky has shown in the last couple of years he is one of the WRCs fastest asphalt drivers, good point about Panizzi also, even if he is past his best.Quote:
Originally Posted by HaCo
For me, one of the main things that could be said in this thread is that IRC is very much "on the up" (this years driver lineup and entry lists have already been much stronger than last year. WRC is, at best, stagnant.
I am hopeful that if the new rules are allowed in, and the manufacturers wishes regarding the calendar are met, and promotion improves then it may bring in some more manufacturers which will mean drivers are hired on talent and not $$$.
Nobody has stated that Grönholm is one sec per/km faster than Loix on asphalt. I was just bringing Pug-time difference in order to imply that Grönholm is faster. Not saying that Grönholm would have trashed Freddy so badly in every car.Quote:
Originally Posted by HaCo
Yeah, we do. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by jparker
But I for one enjoy IRC more at the moment. World Rally Championship seems to have lost its touch to "real rallying". It´s gone all too über-tech and rallyes are too alike. Damn, I wish I had been born 20 years earlier...
PWRC is open to every IRC driver, welcome 2009! Winner can call him/herself World Champion! I know PWRC is B-league, but if you can´t win in B-league, don´t go to A-league!Quote:
Originally Posted by HaCo
(btw.I like S2000 cars very much, so sorry that Finland is group N mitsu country, those are boring)
@pantealex: PWRC (as you know very well) is gravel league, IRC is asphalt one. Two different rally cultures, it's good they can exist independently.
@Wim, as a ex belgian I entirely agree. :s mokin:Quote:
Originally Posted by Wim_Impreza
You should not have taken his struggling so seriously that you changed nationality. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother John
I agree!Quote:
Originally Posted by jparker