Did Lewis deserve the drive-thru penalty?

great video,

look at 20seconds into the video, you can see that he is clearly ahead of vettel entering the chicane
look at 24secodns into the video, he is behind the RBR and has not gained anything from that maneauver.

He clearly passed Vettela and was quickly approaching the RBR in front of him, who by the video you can tell had slowed a bit into the turn. Hamilton had two options, neither of which gained him any unfair advantage at all. He could have crashed into the back of the RBR or he could take evasive action and use the run off area of the chicane to avoid contact, which i assume is what that run off area is designed to do right?

the only issue would have been if he overtook Webber, which he didn't so the call to penalize him is more suspect than clear cut.

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Originally Posted by N. Jones

People! There is no point in arguing these decisions. I came to the conclusion long ago that the race stewards are inconsistent and always will be unless some radical change is made. Wasting time yelling at the TV when a dumb decision comes down is a waste of energy...

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at the end of the day you are right. My frustrations right now will subside soon, and I'll look forward to a good race in silverstone.

I think it was a little harsh on Lewis but the stewards decision was final and on we move to the next race.

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Originally Posted by truefan72

great video,

look at 20seconds into the video, you can see that he is clearly ahead of vettel entering the chicane
look at 24secodns into the video, he is behind the RBR and has not gained anything from that maneauver.

He clearly passed Vettela and was quickly approaching the RBR in front of him, who by the video you can tell had slowed a bit into the turn. Hamilton had two options, neither of which gained him any unfair advantage at all. He could have crashed into the back of the RBR or he could take evasive action and use the run off area of the chicane to avoid contact, which i assume is what that run off area is designed to do right?

the only issue would have been if he overtook Webber, which he didn't so the call to penalize him is more suspect than clear cut.

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If he could not steer his car into the chicane without hitting the other car in front of hime he was going to fast. as a result he went straight on over the chicane. By doing that he gained an advantage over the other cars. he was almost along side the car in front of him which he would not have been if he had slowed down to take the chicane in an appropiate way.

read my previous post. Its not about gaining a position its about gaining an advantage.

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Originally Posted by truefan72

at the end of the day you are right. My frustrations right now will subside soon, and I'll look forward to a good race in silverstone.

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They have been so inconsistent that I find there is no use to arguing. Some people drive offline and get a penalty and some don't. I don't know why but it happens. And it happens with every type of infraction... (sadly)

Bad call against Hamilton.

He passes Vettel and cuts the chicane to avoid an incident with the car in front. This really hasn't been McLaren's weekend. The FIA has been taking a dump on this team repeatedly. 10 place grid penalty for Lewis (tough but fair), 5 place grid penalty for Heikki (for no apparent reason), and then the drive-through penalty for Lewis (F.U.B.A.R.)!

this was not the classic cut across chicane to gain a spot....more like a slip coming out of a corner going into the second corner, lots of drivers have ran wide upon exit after an overtake.

guess they saw it as a chicane-cut rather than simply going wide, but even so, it does strike me as a bit harsh.

Perhaps the aftermath of Canada, where the stewarts did not feel enough penalty, and they needed an excuse or what?
or just inconsistent?
or just no one in France likes those brits and their teams?

Out of interest (I know, I'm comparing kumquats and papaya) when during qualifying Kimi had all four wheels over the white line and Brundle questioned if his time would be disallowed for missing that bit of the track, does anyone know if Kimi's time was removed for that lap?

Seemed a little harsh, but if he'd just allowed the other car to retake the position then this would never have been an issue.

It wasn't a black-and-white decision so I think you can argue either way. Hamilton was carrying too much speed on the wrong line after passing Vettel so had to cut the chicane. I think the fact that he went over the chicane faster than if he had negaotiated the chicane properly resulted in the penalty. Compare that with Kovalainen who had to slow down to get back onto the circuit after his half-arsed attempt on Trulli. No penalty for the Finn, penalty for the Brit

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Originally Posted by wedge

Tough one to call.

50-50

Perhaps a tad too harsh, TBH, as he was slightly ahead as they were side by side.

Don't understand why there isn't normal turf round that part of the track. I suppose the GPDA complained about dirt and crap being brought onto the racing line :rolleyes:

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I'm sure the Stewards had a good look at it. If he had slowed and conceded the place back to Vettel, he would have passed Vettel half a lap later. Case of brain fade more than anything else.

Why not the stewards just radio the driver and say u move over and let him back in front for minor offenses.

Same for blocking. They really want to open it up, then one clear block, and over you go.
Radio.......a new invention so use it.

:confused: have they had any team radio for Lewis on itv :confused:
maybe his race engineer don't speak to him over the radio
maybe it is time to try a new race engineer

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Originally Posted by thunderbolt

:confused: have they had any team radio for Lewis on itv :confused:
maybe his race engineer don't speak to him over the radio
maybe it is time to try a new race engineer

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good point. :Talking:

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Originally Posted by thunderbolt

:confused: have they had any team radio for Lewis on itv :confused:
maybe his race engineer don't speak to him over the radio
maybe it is time to try a new race engineer

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good point

http://www.planet-f1.co.za/story/0,1...724292,00.html

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In Canada Lewis Hamilton was rightly penalised for his pitlane accident - at the same grand prix Sebsatian Vettel was only able to stop Heikki Kovalainen overtaking him by repeatedly cutting the apex on the last chicane. He wasn't penalised.

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The French and the Canadians appear to be on opposite sides of the Atlantic. :p :

do not forget that most of the race race stewards are volunteers
so they may only be at one gp per year.

some of this could be fixed by having full time jobs for race stewards with mandatory training before the start of each f1 season

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Originally Posted by thunderbolt

do not forget that most of the race race stewards are volunteers
so they may only be at one gp per year.

some of this could be fixed by having full time jobs for race stewards with mandatory training before the start of each f1 season

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Let's face it - they are no more inconsistant than our AFL umpires. :rolleyes:

Lewis speaks out (well, surprize, surprize...)

"I feel cool. It's all good. Racing is racing. I'm still here, there's nothing you can do to get me out of it,"

"I continued because I don't believe I overtook him by going over the kerb, I actually took him before that."

"I kept pushing. There's nothing you can do that can distract me. You can keep on giving me penalties and whatever you want to do and I'll keep battling and try and come back with a result."

"I did everything I needed to do, I stayed out of trouble and drove what I thought was a fair race"



Now all he really needed to say was: "I continued because I don't believe I overtook him by going over the kerb, I actually took him before that."


but no, much like Danica P., he has to keep going on with being "cool", "nothing you can do distract me" , "giving me penalties" and on :laugh: .


And there are those who might think that a mouth like that is the best way to win fans and influence people.....and the thing is, it is working out quite well for both of them.......maybe it comes from pro werstlin, hulk hogan and such......

I think he is just putting more and more pressure on himself. He doesn't appear to appreciate the rules: we know he passed him before the curbs; it did appear he was then going too fast to make the corner after that, so he simply cut the corner and in so doing, he gained an advantage.

This type of arrogance doesn't win races, it creates penalties.

Yes he deserved the penalty. I think anytime a driver goes 4 wheels off and continues he should get a penalty -- whether or not there was a pass involved.

And yes Kimi should have been shown the meatball and they should have cut the thermocouple wire holding the pipe to the car.

Vettel should have been penalised in Canada for cutting chicanes more than once to stay ahead of Kovalainen.

If not, then Hamilton shouldn't have been penalised.

Well, this case creates some debate. From the video it could be seen that Hamilton had passed Vettel before the corner. A shame I haven't seen a video from Vettel's onboard or a helicopter view to see the exact location of Vettel's car.

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Originally Posted by Malllen

Vettel should have been penalised in Canada for cutting chicanes more than once to stay ahead of Kovalainen.

If not, then Hamilton shouldn't have been penalised.

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Sounds right. I have seen drivers cutting a chicane many times in order to avoid contacts.

And yes, Schumacher cut a chicane at Hungaroring 2006 too as here was a debate about that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6d35J1DwiZQ
Take a look at approximately 3:30. A very similar situation. Drivers side-by-side into the corner and MS takes an avoiding action.

With Kovalainen getting quite an easy penalty in qualifying, then I don't wonder about folks getting suspicious here. :p :

Some onboard footage from Vettel would certainly clear the issue.

Very close call IMHO. We have to assume the stewards had footage from many different angles on which they based their judgement, rather than just LH's in-car camera that TV viewers saw. Form that view I think LH cut the corner to avoid a possible avoidable incident so he was stuffed either way. Perhaps he should have been more patient, but he is a racing driver after all and we complain if there are no passes!!

One of the issues here is the lack of consistency where the stewards are concerned. I don't know if there still is a permanent steward, or whether the stewards have any racing experience, but I guess they have a difficult job to do.

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Originally Posted by Daika

Did Micheal Schumacher win today?

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No, but I think that "eu" is still having nightmares featuring MS! :laugh:

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Originally Posted by truefan72

He clearly passed Vettela and was quickly approaching the RBR in front of him, who by the video you can tell had slowed a bit into the turn.

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Ofcourse the RBR had slowed a bit into the turn, all the cars go slower when turning in a chicane, well unless driven by Lewy who forgets to brake and cuts the chicanes.

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Originally Posted by markabilly

Lewis speaks out (well, surprize, surprize...)

"I feel cool. It's all good. Racing is racing. I'm still here, there's nothing you can do to get me out of it,"

"I continued because I don't believe I overtook him by going over the kerb, I actually took him before that."

"I kept pushing. There's nothing you can do that can distract me. You can keep on giving me penalties and whatever you want to do and I'll keep battling and try and come back with a result."

"I did everything I needed to do, I stayed out of trouble and drove what I thought was a fair race"

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This guy has a problem between his ears.

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Originally Posted by ioan

This guy has a problem between his ears.

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Yet again, rather than insulting Hamilton, what does he say there that you object to?

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

Yet again, rather than insulting Hamilton, what does he say there that you object to?

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I didn't like the entire schpiel. If ant had said that, the accusations of arrogance would have been deafening. Personally, I don't think Lewis was arrogant, just swell headed.

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

Yet again, rather than insulting Hamilton, what does he say there that you object to?

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If he would have said something intelligent than i would have had something to object, but there is not even something worth of mentioning as insulting, it's only hot air straight from his lungs.

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Originally Posted by markabilly

Lewis speaks out (well, surprize, surprize...)

"I feel cool. It's all good. Racing is racing. I'm still here, there's nothing you can do to get me out of it,"

"I continued because I don't believe I overtook him by going over the kerb, I actually took him before that."

"I kept pushing. There's nothing you can do that can distract me. You can keep on giving me penalties and whatever you want to do and I'll keep battling and try and come back with a result."

"I did everything I needed to do, I stayed out of trouble and drove what I thought was a fair race"

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seems like he has a persecution complex.. the guy has the world in the palm of his hand so i dont know where this is coming from. maybe throwing away the wdc last season is weighing heavily on his mind?

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Originally Posted by ioan

...it's only hot air straight from his lungs.

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Why all the fuss then? :p

I do think the backlash against him is having an effect on him and he'll probably have to learn to deal with the pressures more effectively. The amount of attention he's getting is unprecedented, but that doesn't alter the fact that he is a fighter and he will keep pushing. He'll also keep learning and improving.

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

Why all the fuss then? :p

I do think the backlash against him is having an effect on him and he'll probably have to learn to deal with the pressures more effectively. The amount of attention he's getting is unprecedented, but that doesn't alter the fact that he is a fighter and he will keep pushing. He'll also keep learning and improving.

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And he will keep telling us all this! :rolleyes:

Talking about his sentiments in the way he does shows that he is on the brink of a breaking down.

All he needed to say was: "I continued because I don't believe I overtook him by going over the kerb, I actually took him before that."

the rest is just more stuff..

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Originally Posted by ioan

Talking about his sentiments in the way he does shows that he is on the brink of a breaking down.

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Rubbish. What it does show is his frustration at losing vital championship points, and his determination to fight back. Sure, he could have worded things differently, but so what? Do we want characters and talking points in F1 or not?

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Originally Posted by markabilly

All he needed to say was: "I continued because I don't believe I overtook him by going over the kerb, I actually took him before that."

the rest is just more stuff..

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Lewis has skill but lacks brains.....

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

Rubbish. What it does show is his frustration at losing vital championship points, and his determination to fight back. Sure, he could have worded things differently, but so what? Do we want characters and talking points in F1 or not?

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You're right all we seem to need to make F1 better is hollow heads like Hamilton who rear ends a car, gets a penalty, cuts a chicane because he forgot to brake, again, gets another penalty and then he cries about how everyone is against him! :rolleyes:

If that's what you appreciate in F1 than it seems you are in the right fan base.

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Originally Posted by markabilly

Lewis speaks out (well, surprize, surprize...)

"I feel cool. It's all good. Racing is racing. I'm still here, there's nothing you can do to get me out of it,"

"I continued because I don't believe I overtook him by going over the kerb, I actually took him before that."

"I kept pushing. There's nothing you can do that can distract me. You can keep on giving me penalties and whatever you want to do and I'll keep battling and try and come back with a result."

"I did everything I needed to do, I stayed out of trouble and drove what I thought was a fair race"



Now all he really needed to say was: "I continued because I don't believe I overtook him by going over the kerb, I actually took him before that."


but no, much like Danica P., he has to keep going on with being "cool", "nothing you can do distract me" , "giving me penalties" and on :laugh: .


And there are those who might think that a mouth like that is the best way to win fans and influence people.....and the thing is, it is working out quite well for both of them.......maybe it comes from pro werstlin, hulk hogan and such......

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You're completely right. If he'd just said that he thought he made a fair pass then that would be OK. But he's made himself look like a right clot by making out that he somehow doesn't deserve his penalties and that everyone is against him.

McLaren should give his seat to someone who's just as good buy nowhere near as gobby. Vettel would be my choice..... Of course that won't happen but I do think a year in a rubbish team would bring Hammy down to earth.