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So if I disagree with you I hate the IRL?Quote:
Originally Posted by garyshell
Well at the merger announcement everybody was talking about how everything will improve. Attendance, Ratings, Sponsors....ect, right away. So far there hasn't even been a wiff of improvement.Quote:
Originally Posted by garyshell
Using your gauge coverage has been MARKEDLY absent in the Greater Miami/Ft. Lauderdale area. Local TV zip. Newspapers just few few AP blubs.Quote:
Originally Posted by garyshell
yes there are CW drones still fighting their corner, but then again (mentioning no names) there are equally as many from the pre-merger IRL side still fighting their corner in this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by indycool
I am watching the build up to the 500 for the first time since 1995, and I for one am loving it.
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Originally Posted by spiritone
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Originally Posted by garyshell
Was my reply addressed to you? No, it was addressed to someone, who if you bother to look through the short history of theire posts here (btw I did look) it would be obvious that they have a very bitter attitude toward the IRL. I quoted it above, just so you can see that it was not adressed to you, but maybe you identified with it because often enough your hatred does show through despite your claims to the contrary.Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
Really? Care to back up that assertion with some reality as in NUMBERS? Remember when you do attempt to reply that "hasn't even been a wiff" would imply zero.Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
And one market means that it isn't happening anywhere else, right? I never claimed that what I was seeing here is happening everywhere. But again the original claim was "and not working at getting press" again implying zero increase.Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
Gary
Drone on gary. My so called hatred of the irl does not mask the empty grandstands at indy. Would you like to argue that there were really people there.
Tell me why a format that has nobody in the stands should be continued.
If my hatred for the irl is showing so is your blind defence of everything that tg is doing.
By the way, are you an employed by the irl?
spiritone, were you an employee of Champ Car?
Your series is dead.
Get over it.
No, I never said the stands were filled. Sadly they were not.Quote:
Originally Posted by spiritone
Be cause, as I said before we are less than three months into the unification. It is much too early to decide what does and what does not work.Quote:
Originally Posted by spiritone
Really? Now THAT is a laugh. If you would bother to review my history here, you would find that I am the one who coined the term "...king George". My disdain for the grandson is well known.Quote:
Originally Posted by spiritone
I am a ChampCar fan, who is relived that the 13 year experiment is over and that racing goes on now under a single banner. And you?
Gary
What the hell does eliminating two weeks of pointless time-wasting have to do with halving the purse? It's not like in the pre-split days when people actually attended practice and Carb Day and the rest. There's no revenue lost, unless you're just sucking off of the teams, which is just another thing wrong with this series.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilf
Sorry, but without the best oval driver in either series in the mix it just doesn't hold any interest for me. It's just another IRL race.Quote:
Originally Posted by BobGarage
I'm sorry but I just don't see the momentum you're talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZzZzZz
Same thing as the last ten years; empty grandstands.
For g0d sake, it's bascially been friggin pouring rain since last saturday. What stories would you like to hear that aren't out there. How can you generate stories without track time? It's hard to have on track stories unless they are going to race airboats. Still, there have been quite a few stories. $hI# happens once and a while. The way it's going with the weather, I won't be suprised to see the 500 run a week late to top it off. If there was good weather, half of us would be all over the former CCWS teams progress at improving their speeds. There are still drivers hoping to find a ride, still teams scraping cash up to make the field, only to be twarted by the weather. Now that there is a decent number of cars, they need to ditch that stupid 11 cars per day BS.
Give it some dang time to evolve again.
I wonder how many other BEST drivers are without a ride? Seem to me if he was a shoe in, someone would put his shoe in.Quote:
Originally Posted by PTCrash3
If it is just another IRL race to you, why do you care so much to post here? And as far as the best driver goes, I think PT's career is listed up for sale at the CC auction in June.Quote:
Originally Posted by PTCrash3
Oh I forgot, CC had so many full grandstands that they were forced to close down because they just couldn't deal with them. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by PTCrash3
OK, sorry for the outburst.Quote:
Originally Posted by Starter
WHAT? Are you SANE? (Well said.)Quote:
Originally Posted by tamburello
Well, let's compare this year's numbers to the last ten, then. Can you wait another ten days?Quote:
Originally Posted by PTCrash3
We are talking about the long-term format for this race, not just this year.
With only 3 months since the merger, the momentum is only just beginning for rebuilding the race and the series. It would be foolhardy to make long-term decisions based on such little data. Really, the results of next year's race will show if reunification is achieving its expected growth.
The model that worked before was 3 weekends. Changing that based on virtually no data is not just premature, but defeatist - meaning it could very well compromise growth.
All the extra sponsors, teams, drivers, etc. say that the expense and time are worth it. Those are business decisions made by the business people you are referring to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandfly
This isnt an anti IRL thread, its about the loss of monmentum. The rain hasn't helped much, it rains nearly every year though. A race three weeks before would help quell some of these momentum worries, and form a business point of view, you need your product up front and in your customers faces as much as possible.
Example how many adds show the 500 right now. I haven't seen one, but I live in the UK. Is it being heavily promoted in the US, CAnada, Brazil. With the huge contingent of Brazillian drivers it should be. With Australia and New Zealand drivers on the frony row you would expect coverage to be good there to. In fact any country with a driver should be promoting the race.
If only....Quote:
Originally Posted by MAX_THRUST
(you'd have to ask a kiwi about coverage across the ditch, mine's an Aussie perspective)
With the exception of Mansell's time in AOWR, the 500 has never had any pre-race coverage in the UK on terrestrial, free-to-air TV.Quote:
Originally Posted by MAX_THRUST
Here in the Atlanta area, there has been no discernible difference in the coverage from last year to this year. No real surprise as this is Cab country. I'll take Gary's word that it's up in Cincy and it makes sense the first places to feel an effect of the merge would be places regionally around Indy.
It'll take years for it to get back to pre split attention, if it ever does.
I think we already have seen more coverage of practice and qualifying on ABC/ESPN as is. Last year I don't remember anywhere near as much.
I see it only getting better each year. You need to remember that long term contracts were in place before unification and ol twinkle toes and Danicamania along with good racing is going to make the negotiating position stronger when those contracts are up.
A de-facto spec series
Drivers are on the limit 100% of the time
Rain, rain and more rain
Cars/Engines that have run Indy many times that a set up is already known
For these reasons, a full month can drag; but at the same time I like the tradition and would like to see them make the month interesting rather than cut it down.
Cut down the practice time for indycars & run more support races, my wet dream version of the schedule would be sometime like:
Fri 2nd - Atlantics on the road circuit
Sat 3rd - Indycar race on the road circuit
Sun 4th - ROP
Mon 5th - ROP
Tue-Thur Indycar Practice
Fri 9th - Trucks on the oval
Sat 10th - Pole Qual
Sun 11th - Nationwide/ARCA on the oval
Mon 12th - 2nd Qual
Tue-Thur Indycar Practice
Fri 16th - 3rd Qual
Sat 17th - Grand Am on road circuit
Sun 18th - Bump Day
Mon 19th - Historic Indycars
Tue-Thur Indycar Practice
Fri 23rd - Carb Day
Sat 24th - Indy Lights on the oval
Sun 25th - Indy 500
Mon 26th - Victory Celebrations
Fri 30th - Indy Lights on the road circuit
Sat 31st - F1 Qual / Porsche cup
Sun 1st June - F1 Grand Prix
Don't worry Sam will be back when he's sick of being a mid-pack stock car driver. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by PTCrash3
Those who expect "microwave" growth from "blendification" will be disappointed. But, I expect if they actually GOT ballistically and so visibly improved instantly that the world would notice, those people would still REFUSE to notice.
Those who expect realistic development over the long term probably will notice differences here and there. Another well-sponsored team here, another new race there, a better-attended Carb Day at Indy, maybe a better-attended qualifying day at a Kansas or a Kentucky partly because of the ICS and/or partly because of some other feature a track has put on the weekend schedule.
Simply, those who desire to dislike it will find things wrong with it. The ones who don't want to dislike it might have a different preference in procedure here and there, but it doesn't affect their view of it much.
Is this a forum where you can express your opinion or not?
Just because i don't agree with the party line, to bad. Microwave growth, thats not what i see in the stands at indy. Its simple people, the present formula is not working at indy. Condense the program down to 2 weeks and get on with it.
Did you listen to your god, Robin Miller, he says the format *****.
Davey Hamiton makes the field and he says it *****. This is not about the irl vs champcar, this is about the format at indy not working. My Opinion.
the 11/11/11 doesn't work and isn't necessary, but the month should stay the same as it is for the sake of the additional 9-10 cars that aren't series regulars having hte time and practice t omake quality additions to the field.
Spiritone, things change and some change faster than others.
Robin Miller is NOT my god.
Other changes have already taken place regarding bolstering the three-week schedule with different attractions, concerts, and the like. Those things happened DURING the split.
Now, there are more cars and the Bump Day was dramatic. With that in mind, the 11-11-11-BUMP may or may not change in the future. But it would surprise me if they ever diminish the magnitude of the race by going to a two-week format again.
Hamilton? Davey's always seemed to be an honest guy. He would've started 13th under the old system and he's starting 18th now. And because Sunday qualifying was rained out, he expressed that the first 11 got to work more on race setups.
He has a point. He was at a disadvantage in those respects. It could work to his advantage the next time. But I don't think they're going to try to make decisions on format based on when it might rain. That's insane.
It's certainly a waste of a good month to race the same cars on another oval, but drag it out so long. I can see how it made sense in the days long before the 500 became (largely) a spec series race. Bring back Andy Granetelli (sp?) and building special purpose machines for the race... or else knock it back to a weekend.Quote:
Originally Posted by MAX_THRUST
I like what courageous said about making the month bigger! Why not envolve other races throughout the month at the circuit. In a way copy Daytona speed week. Make the 500 the big race, and have various other series in supporting roles as the month builds.
Bump day has happened and we have seen anything. Qualifying happened and I didn't understand it because I didn';t see it. But a tleast this year we had cars being bumped. Sorry to see some of them being bumped though. Dont understand the 11,11,11 qualify. Be better having three qualiy sessions where only in the very last one does the grid get set, but I digress.
As it supposed to work the fastest 11 qualify on pole day. Then another 11 qualify on day 2 for positions 12-22 and third day for positions 23-33. Even if second and third day qualifiers are faster than pole days speeds, they cannot advance past 12th or 23rd. Then there is dump day. Cars are bumped depending on speed. So, in theory if a car in second round qualifying was slowest, the 22nd place car would be bumped, the new car would be 33rd and everyone else would be dumped up a spot.Quote:
Originally Posted by MAX_THRUST
BUT, he's talking in the hypothetical. Everyone was playing under the same existing rules. What's to say, hypothetically, that if the rules were different, more teams would have put in a stronger effort day1? Maybe he would have ended up 18th either way...Quote:
Originally Posted by indycool
Monday's Miami Herald had a small columm mentioning Foyt IV's Gas Cap incident and that is it. Nothing about Bump Day. Nothing about the suspense.Quote:
Originally Posted by garyshell
Now the Miami Herald is the Newspaper of record for a major metropolitan area where the IRL starts it's season and where a large percentage of it's racers call home. Including some of their main stars, Helio, TK, RHR among others.
It is obvious that the 2 weeks of qualifying isn't working.
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Originally Posted by anthonyvop
Again this is the same single market you talked about before. I repeat, does one market's result mean it is not working? Also as has been said numerous times in this thread by myself and others, we are now three months into unification, and the "experts" have declared that they "know" the format isn't working. Are you as good at predicting stock futures after it has been on the market for three months?
Gary
A quick search of Internet trends shows that the Indy 500 is running about 15% to 20% below last year's searches. Not Good.Quote:
Originally Posted by garyshell
Gary,
You like the current format. Fine. But even you would have to admit that the interest and popularity of the Indy 500 is nowhere near what it was 10 years ago.
You say it has only been three months so give it time. I say it has been 3 months and no appreciable gains has been made. How much time should we give it? 3 more months? The year?
At least and then some. You won't change peoples perceptions overnight.Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
Currently the IRL is more STOCK than Stock car racing....When things were different was when the cars were more advanced techincally than NASCAR. THey still are but are exactly the same, so stock!!!
However if the teams and series go back to pushing new technologies then costs will rise as in F1, (not to the same level- clearly).
Right now Stock is good for the IRL, but the month maybe a touch too long. I think the IRL is doing well, I would have thought things would have been better this year, maybe it'll take another 13 years for the series to return to the CART days, but things weren't so great then I guess (according to some), just better than now.
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Originally Posted by anthonyvop
Oh please, don't tell me let me guess you think that Internet searches are a significant market indicator. :eek: Sorry, I don't subscribe to that notion at all and I make my business in IT.
I never said I like the current format. Actually I think the 11-11-11 scenario is ridiculous. But I do like the "Month of May" concept. And that info about the Indy 500 being less popular than it was 10 years ago comes as just a total shock to me. My, oh my. Please Anthony say it isn't so. I am just devastated by that news. [shakes head and rolls eyes]
What the ***** did you expect in 3 months, a freakin' miracle? How much time should we give it? At the very least a year. As close to the motorsports inside as you claim to be, I should think you would understand the sponsorship cycle a little bit more. Marketing budgets were already set by most large consumer oriented companies when the merger was announced. So we will see no real marketing benefits until next season. But it is pretty obvious there are several already starting to circle looking to join in. Have you heard about the billboards around Indy for a certain beer company with a Dallara prominently displayed on it?
Look, the damage was done over the past 12+ years, your expectations that a miracle MUST happen overnite (OK 3 months) or we have to blow up the entire concept and start from scratch is ridiculous at best and indicative of your own personal agenda at worst.
Do I like everything about what is going on right now, no. But I am not going to pretend to be such an expert as to call for a revamp of the process at this juncture.
Gary
Then you must not make much money. Internet Searches are a huge indicator. I subscribe to that notion and I make my business in Marketing!Quote:
Originally Posted by garyshell
No but at least something. Some movement. So far....NADA!Quote:
Originally Posted by garyshell
Wait a year before any measurable bump? Yikes. Luckily IMS isn't a publically traded company or that stock would crash.Quote:
Originally Posted by garyshell
Ok so it was too late for this year's marketing budget and yet a beer company was able to come up with some sponsor dollars? Make up your mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by garyshell
Most major companies hold $$$ in reserve for late oppourtunities. As far as marketers are concerned there was none as the numbers haven't matched the hype.
Nobody said a Miracle! But something. If anything the doward spiral has continued.Quote:
Originally Posted by garyshell
And what is my agenda? You agenda is to brand anyone who disagrees with you as an IRL hater.Quote:
Originally Posted by garyshell
I am. It is not working. It hasn't worked for years.Quote:
Originally Posted by garyshell
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Originally Posted by garyshell
If it had been a publicly traded company it would have crashed long ago and that is exactly the point. Once it did bottom out, no one would expect it to rise up again in three months.Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
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Originally Posted by garyshell
Really? The beer company must have seen something. They spent some of their reserves. But that is peanuts, the REAL story will be this fall when the budgets are doled out. Then we'll see where things stand. Till then it's all speculation.Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
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Originally Posted by garyshell
By what measure? The local Miami paper is all you have sighted thus far. How else are you guaging this "doward" spiral?Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
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Originally Posted by garyshell
What is your agenda? Let's see, if I go to your website http://www.sfmreport.com and scroll down to the bottom of the page and in the far left column what do I see as the very last icon link? You tell ME what that means. It sure isn't a link to the I love the ICS website is it? It's the home of the FTG, FKK, FBB, FIRL, F everything that has anything to do with the ICS. That coupled with your messages here speaks volumes. Do you have anything to back up the assertion that I brand anyone who disagrees with me as an IRL hater? No you don't. The only ones I call out on that are the ones who give that appearance.Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
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Originally Posted by garyshell
Yes, I noticed and I am not talking about the "not working part".Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
Gary
Only way you boys are gonna sort this out is with pistols at 20 paces....