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Mansell's 1992 F1 championship-winning Williams FW12B had Active suspension, Traction Control, ABS and semi-automatic gearbox, which needed State-Of-The-Art Computers & Engineers.Quote:
Originally Posted by BenRoethig
As far as "Driver-Aids" went, it had the full-monty.
I'm just curious, why do I see this type of text time and time again from an American poster. Sour grapes? F1 is better now that it has ever been, last year's championship is a great proof of that and the drivers are now more professional than ever. Just look at them, they are real athletes and the margins between them are incredibly small. Mansell's championship was a joke, anyone who knows anything about F1 knows that. 2,5 seconds a lap faster than Ayrton Senna in Brasil 1992 qualifying says it all...Quote:
Originally Posted by BenRoethig
Dex, I think you see it because F1 isn't as popular in the U.S. as it is in other countries because you have many more choices for sports (and racing) entertainment in the U.S. than any other country. It's respected, but it's "something over there."
Maybe as a commentator or pit reporter :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSH
It's NOT what I suggested. If it came over that way I apologise. What I suggested is that if some driver from some other series thinks he can outclass her then just skip the big talk, take it to the track and let's see who comes out on top. It's safe to say that Danica will likely outperform most if not all F1 drivers on their first oval attempt, on the other hand I'm sure most of them would beat her on a road circuit.
Personally, I'm not sure if she'd do well in F1. Depends on the team I guess. I agree that there've been less talented drivers in the series. I also think that there's other IRL drivers who deserve the test more than her, but don't have the same connections nor the commercial value as Danica.
On another note, I still don't get it why someone would even want to run in a series which not even remotely has an even playing field. Is it really that much fun to get lapped every race, just because your car has less horsepower and worse aerodynamics than the others? Or having to retire because of mechanicals and engine failures every second race? Would you really prefer that to the IRL and seriously competing for wins, especially in Indianapolis?
Money makes the world go round I guess.
I think Marco is more credible then Danica because 1. His one win (another fuel run) was on a road course. 2. He has won in the IPS where she never won a race in Atlantics. 3. He makes mistakes but on Road Courses is much more comfortable then she looks. 4. He is much younger and has time to delevop. If Honda made him a test driver next year then he could be ready to race in another year or two after that.Quote:
Originally Posted by DavePI2
This is why Danica will never be in F1. It took Seabastian Bourdais 3 straight championships and dominating a series that was very similar to F1 (all road and street courses) to get a ride and he was from Europe and had already driven GP2 and i am pretty sure had already been a test driver in F1. Finally F1 doesn't need a publicity stunt as a driver. Even with it having almost no fans in the U.S. it is still the most popular series out there. And they have shown they don't care about America so they aren't going out of their way to find an American driver.
Bourdais was never in GP2. F1 had plenty publicity stunt drivers, most recently Scott Speed who was advertised as "obviously the best American driver out there". It could be argued that several current F1 drivers got their ride through connections rather than performance.
Marco and Graham are stronger on road circuits than Danica, but if Danica should happen to win the '500 and HondaF1 drop Barrichello then she's a realistic candidate.
This is really a bogus discussion because the title of the thread is inaccurate.
1. She said, if you READ her quote, that she was "dead set" on F1 some years back.
2. She said, if you READ the story, that she wanted to win an ICS championship first.
People change. The world changes. Situations change. Except for wanting to live a life of leisure with Julia Roberts on an island in the South Pacific for the rest of my life, I'VE changed.
I realize there are some on the forum who believe the goal of every race driver on earth is to be in F1. I don't.
Sure, F1 dosen't needs a publicity stunt as a driver, but there are tems in F1 that most definitly could use one.Quote:
Originally Posted by icehammer97
Danica maybe a once in a lifetime opportunity. It may never happen again(at least for a very, very long time) that we see a girl with her skills and her looks on the race tracks.
Her publicity value alone makes it stupid not to sign her, or at least give here some serious tests.
No, but F3000 essentially occupied the same position as GP2 does now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Komahawk
Speed actually outqualified and outraced Luizzi on more than a couple of occasions. The Red Bull program was full of holes, but it was about more than just creating "stunt divers". And I never saw any such advertisment touting Speed as "obviously the best American driver out there." Outside of maybe his family thinking that, I don't believe any such ad existed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Komahawk
It would be hard to find an F1 driver who DIDN'T get a ride through connections at some point, including Senna and Schumacher. Where I think Danica would stand out, were she to be "placed" in F1 by Honda: she would probably qualify as the least accomplished driver to ever make it to (modern) F1.Quote:
Originally Posted by Komahawk
Without proving her worth on a roadcourse, she could win "the 500" several years in a row, and that still wouldn't make her a realistic candidate for Formula One. Based on what I read today, I do think that Honda will test her in the near future. But her chance of replacing Barrichello at Honda F1 are about as realistic as my chance of finding Ivanka Trump in my hot tub late at night.Quote:
Originally Posted by Komahawk
If Danica is in demand at Honda F1, it is for PR and marketing reasons (IMO). Why else would an F1 team want her? Name me one reason, outside of PR and marketing. Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?
I think a good first step in that Direction would be the Acura ALMS ride for AGR of all teams. Do the 12 hr next Feb and see how she does.
Neither do I. If a driver, especially one with an American racing background, does not express an interest in Formula One, it is quite understandable. It's not on the radar of everyone and isn't everybody's goal. That's perfectly ok.Quote:
Originally Posted by indycool
Likewise, if I driver does express, or has expressed in the past, a desire to do F1, then I don't see why anyone should criticise them for having that ambition.
A racing driver without ambition, be it to win the F1 title, the Borg Warner trophy, the Nextel Cup or just the next race they are in, isn't a racing driver.
As for PR, don't forget that Honda's PR in F1 is run by Simon Fuller, the man who brought us the Spice Girls so it might appear that would be a possibility.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior
However, just a quick look at Honda's race-team driver choices shows that they are not easily swayed by good-PR. They dropped Sato, the Japanese favourite. If they were concerned about PR over performance, then that would not have happened.
Danica will, I'm sure, get a test in the Honda, but it doesn't mean anything with regards to a full-time seat.
Yes, but how much pr-value does Sato have outside Japan?Quote:
Originally Posted by tamburello
How much value does the Motegi ICS race have outside Japan? It's a mere "tie" to the homeland on what Honda is doing in racing.
Even Danica qualified it as she'd do it if it was the "real deal" and not just a publicity stunt. Most race drivers would say the same thing. So, somebody got a test. So what?
I don't believe for a second that there is an actual competitive race car driver on this planet that if presented with an actual serios competitive F1 ride would even think for a second about passing it up regardless of there past current or future goals (or current drive)Quote:
Originally Posted by indycool
It could be said that Mansell's Williams was the most technologically advanced car to ever win the world championship as active ride was banned after that season.Quote:
Originally Posted by tamburello
Well, Ken, how about Steve Kinser, John Force, Jeff Gordon, Tony Stewart, guys on hundreds of dirt and paved ovals in this country, drag racers, motorcycle racers.
To each his/her own thing. I would much rather, myself, although I'm not a race driver, take a few laps around Indy than a few laps around Monaco.
Contrary to a perception by largely the road racing community, F1 is not the be-all, end-all for EVERYONE in motorsports.
Quote:
Originally Posted by indycool
well IC your less a fan of Indycar racing then you are a fan of INDY....so laps around Indy is an emotional response
and it's easy as a fan on a forum to make such a claim...as I have also done..
but ya i'd lump every driver listed in your post and a million more..and still make my claim everyday of the week and twice on race day...
currently a top race winning ride in F1 is the p[innacle of motorsports....take politics sponsors and contracts out of the equation and any and all racers would want to compete at the highest possible level
Ken, they, individually, have to RATE it as the highest possible level. In probably every other country in the world, that's probably so. But in the U.S., IMO, that's just not true.
Afraid we just disagree on that one. I can't speak for every individual race driver, although I feel certain that I could find some who share my viewpoint. On the other hand, your statement refers to ALL. And I just don't think that's true. I believe Jeff Gordon even turned down an F1 test a few years back.
Quote:
Originally Posted by indycool
If Williams and Hendrick cam to J Gordaon and told them they had struck a deal for Jeff to pilot the F1 car for the 2009 season and his salary and Nascar seat was gauranteed for 2010 I'd bety he and any and all other race cars drivers would jump at the chance
And I bet he would not. And I bet THEY ALL would not. As I said, we just disagree completely.
And she had been secretly given the power-steering system now installed on all IRL cars. I'm still amazed that that was legal - I guess the IRL ruleset must have a special Danica section.Quote:
Originally Posted by BobGarage
Like other posters, I find the thought of Danica in F1 hilarious. She'll get the usual token test drive with Honda (probably with unpublished laptimes to avoid embrasssment) - just basic boilerplate PR provided by Honda Corp to promulgate the fiction that IRL drivers could actually be F1 contenders.
I wonder - does Danica really believe her own PR hype? Does she actually believe that she could finish in the top 75% of a GP2 race, let alone F1? Perhaps, to maintain her own self-respect, she has to believe that it's her mad skillz, not the swimsuit photospreads, that got her where she is today.
Unlike DP, Scott Speed has the track record to justify his F1 drive. He absolutely dominated the US shifter kart championships for several years, won several Star Mazda races in his first season (would probably have won the championship if he'd run all the races), easily made it through the Red Bull driver search selection eliminations, which got him a ride in Europe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Komahawk
He won 2 championships (Formula Renault 2000 Eurocup, German Formula Renault), and finished 3rd in the GP2 championship behind Rosberg and Kovaleinen. His F1 career was unremarkable, but certainly not an embarassment. He performed adequately with a mediocre team, and I suspect that his eventual departure had more to do with his abrasive personality, and the consequent and public estrangement from the equally abrasive Gerhard Berger, than lack of ability. I don't think he was good enough to be a contender for the F1 crown, but he displayed at least average competence by F1 standards.
Contrast that with DP, who has never won a road-race in any series other than local, junior karting when she was 15 years old. She has one oval win, but unfortunately for her, small drivers don't get a weight advantage outside the IRL, so even an oval victory is unlikely to be available to her in any other series.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starter
For me it would depend on who is paying for the insurance on the car!!! ;)
Gary
I think the point of this discussion is not had or have, but the fact that DP and her PR flacks are holding out the idea of F1 as a future option once she's achieved her Indycar goals. Nowhere in any of that is a remotely realistic assessment of the chances of F1 wanting Danica.Quote:
Originally Posted by indycool
Bascially, her very lucrative marketing career might be damaged were she to say she's staying in the IRL because she hasn't a hope in hell of getting an F1 offer, so she has to present it as though it's she who's not interested in F1, rather than the reverse.
Personally, I find that less honest and less admirable than if she were still "dead set" on F1.
Are you seriously suggesting DP is a better driver than Alsonso or Raikonen?Quote:
Originally Posted by Komahawk
Actually, you have many fewer choices for motor racing entertainment in the US than in Europe, especially on TV. The reason F1 (like soccer) isn't as popular in the US is because of Americocentrism, the insular (and isolated) nature of American culture.Quote:
Originally Posted by indycool
True - after all, nobody gets lapped in the IRL. And all those teams who've been in contention for the championship ... lets see, how many was it ... oh that's right, three.Quote:
Originally Posted by Komahawk
Or, if you count Toyota's last year, one. Or the year after that, two.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Funny that we're always wrong because we don't like the same things as europeans do. God forbid anybody be allowed a thought that doesn't originate there.Quote:
Originally Posted by skyh
This may be hard for an IRL fan to grasp, but F1 doesn't need drivers for their publicity value. Unlike Tony George's series, F1 has all the publicity it needs simply because it is the acknowledged pinnacle of motorsport. By comparison, NASCAR is like the club series at your local dirt track.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Peppermill
“F1 is regarded as the highest level of racing with the best drivers in the world, and it's very flattering to have that as an opportunity." - Danica Patrick, April 2008.
What opportunity? As I've said before, Danica will be offerfed a PR test with Honda. She was offered one in 2005, but turned it down, no doubt because being 3 seconds off the pace would have been a major embarassment. There will be no F1 ride, but she (and her boosters) will contnue to propgate the transparent BS (as above) that she could be in F1 if she wanted to, but she'd rather stay in the IRL.
I've looked throughout the IRL records and I can't find any reference to power steering, yet it contiues to be something special offered only to DP. I wonder how she gets these special favors. Maybe she had a 25 gallon fuel call for Motegi.Quote:
Originally Posted by skyh
A little touchy, aren't we? Nobody said you're wrong. What is wrong is the claim that American racing offers more entertainment options than European racing. There are far more races and far more series on TV in Europe than in America.Quote:
Originally Posted by BenRoethig
As to the insularity - America is notorious for a lack of interest in, and knowledge of, anything outside their own borders. When I first moved here in 1982, I was staggered by the ignorance of the rest of the world, the lack of international news, and an unthinking assumption that everything American was superior, even when they didn't even know to what it was (supposedly) superior.
By contrast, the people I met in Europe (and from Europe), and the European media, were very knowledgeable about the entire world, not just their own culture. That may be a product of better educational systems (taxes are good for some things, especially when don't have to spend most of your budget on war :eek: ), but it's more than that - in general, Europeans just seem to be more curious about the world outside their own horizons than are Americans.
It's called reduction-gear steering, I believe. Not true power-steering, but offers the same advantage (less effort, less fatigue, better control). Danica and one of the Vision cars was given it at Detroit and one other road course last year, until the media (Robin Miller, I think) got hold of it, and the ensuing publicity ended that program.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilf
The justification was that it was put on her car for "development" prior to its 2008 release to all teams. The fact that this conferred an secret, unfair advantage to DP was apparently the goal of the bush-league management of the series.
.
If I go back to 2003 or so, will I see a broad variety of teams winning in the IRL? Or will I see three teams basically dominating the standings each and every season? If we were talking about the late 90's, I'd have to agree with you. But since the former CART teams came in, the IRL has basically become what you're criticizing F1 for.Quote:
Originally Posted by Komahawk
By the way, in 2006, according to Business F1 magazine:
McLaren's total budget was $400 million.
Toyota's budget was $393 million.
Honda's team budget was $382 million.
BMW-Sauber's budget was $378 million.
Ferrari's team budget was $329 million.
Renault's budget was $300 million.
According to Business F1's data, the level of F1 team spending did not create a cause & effect relationship, or even draw a correlation to success in the upper portion of the WDC in 2006... or 2005. Even in 2007 (and I bet 2008), with Honda and Toyota still struggling, all F1 proves is that you can spend yourself silly, if you're not efficient and capable of managing resources within a hyper-speed environment.
To me, F1 represents all the kids who play for keeps, going into a room and taking the SAT's over & over, until they all drop dead or give up, except for the last one standing: the winner. Maybe there are some rich kids who get to take prep courses before the tests. But maybe there are some less wealthy kids who just know how to take tests and regurgetate knowledge faster & better.
IMO, the playing field in F1 is as fair as the one in life (at least in the U.S.): you take the cards you're dealt, you make the best of them and you play them for all they're worth... to the best of your ability.
Social engineering is one way to address society's ills. But I think true competition produces a stronger being, and in the end, a more robust society.
OK then. I'll finish my last thought:
Social engineering is one way to address society's ills. But I think true competition produces a stronger being, and in the end, a more robust society. IMO, the basis of the hype around Danica is more about social engineering than true competition. Yes, there have been more than a few others who made it to Formula One, who were less than accomplished. But I can't think of any who had but one race win in their professional career. And I also can't think of any of these (ride-buyers) who attracted any sort of media attention, except when they hit a wall or another car.
Based on how I see F1 and why I've followed F1 for all these years, I'd prefer that Danica-mania stay on this side of the pond, unless it's just to have her do a dog & pony show to get European tweenagers lathered up. I think the Honda F1 test will take place... most likely with unpublished results. And I think that one day there will be another woman in F1. But I do not think that it will be a woman who won her first professional race at age 26, with that win being on an oval. I think that the one (or more) that makes it to F1 will be spoken about more for her racing accomplishments going in, than the Paris Hilton/Britney Spears like media attention that follows her to the door.
Or the short version: That poodle don't hunt!
Close it. The start of the thread was already an extrapolation so far removed from the intent of Danica's original comments that it bears no relevance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Starter