McLaren put to back of Sakhir pitlane

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Originally Posted by Tazio

FOM is over riding the the decision that allowed McLaren to move up to pit position 5! Is this the FOM putting their foot down! Does this mean what I think it means. It can't! Bernie is the fom, or is that more of Max's juristiction This is a very ambiguos report. What's going on here you guys that are in the know about these things

The Bahrain Grand Prix organisers have apologised to McLaren fans after having to demote the Formula One leaders to the slow end of the pitlane for next Sunday's race.

The garage allocation is based on last year's positions in the constructors' standings and McLaren were stripped of all their points in 2007 due to a spying controversy over possession of Ferrari data.

However the Mercedes-powered team, with Britain's Lewis Hamilton leading the drivers' standings, were given the fifth set of garages at the first two races of the season behind champions Ferrari, BMW Sauber, Renault and Williams.

Bahrain organisers had expected McLaren to take a similar position at Sakhir but said on Sunday they had been forced to make a late change after being told by Formula One Management that would not be the case.

McLaren will now get the last set of garages, next to tail-enders Force India.

"In Bahrain we do our utmost to ensure that fans of each team get to sit opposite their favourite team's pit garages to see the action unfold," said the circuit's chief operating officer Sheikh Salman bin Isa Al Khalifa in a statement.

"Sadly on this occasion, we must apologise to McLaren fans and accept that this is force majeure."

Bahrain's state-owned Mumtalakat holding company has a 30 percent stake in McLaren.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/66228

http://www.transplantfund.org/Restri...TOKEN=63350618

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Very funny but you wrote it a couple of hours too soon :laugh: Good April joke though but nobody would seriously believe that the people in charge of the sport would F**k it about AGAIN after the torrid year we have had.

Oh, hang on, this IS F1 :rolleyes:

I said recently that more and more, Championships will be decided in the Courtrooms and Inquiry rooms. McLaren are being influenced yet again and having their championship chances jeopardised because of Incompetent F1 management. It's a disgrace if this is true.

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

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I said recently that more and more, Championships will be decided in the Courtrooms and Inquiry rooms. McLaren are being influenced yet again and having their championship chances jeopardised because of Incompetent F1 management. It's a disgrace if this is true.

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I still fail to see how being at the end of the pit-lane affects your race performance in a really notorious way...

McLaren can invite less jet-set stars to their paddock now, how is that gonna affect their performance? :confused:

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

McLaren are being influenced yet again and having their championship chances jeopardised because of Incompetent F1 management. It's a disgrace if this is true.

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McLaren are paying for their faults. That's all. They got less points last season, they go to the far end of the pit lane! Even a squirrel would get it. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

McLaren are being influenced yet again and having their championship chances jeopardised because of Incompetent F1 management. It's a disgrace if this is true.

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Why? These are the rules, and the effect the decision will have on the team's race performance will surely be minimal at most, though I would appreciate a bit of consistency.

I don't like much of the bile that has been thrown at McLaren in recent times, but this is rather different.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

Why? These are the rules, and the effect the decision will have on the team's race performance will surely be minimal at most, though I would appreciate a bit of consistency.

I don't like much of the bile that has been thrown at McLaren in recent times, but this is rather different.

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It is insulting to even the most pedestrian F1 Fan.

I feel it as though this may have something to do with:

This is just conjecture. Is it possible that they were moved because of a belief by these mostly strict
Muslims, wanting to know that their GP is held in acordance with their belief in honesty, and fair play.
Thus turning the tables on Bernie saying "you can take our millions. But our fans are going to have every reason to believe the race they are presenting is completely on the up, and up" even if it means that their favorite team is less acessable. Thus the apology

Of course I admit that this is unlikely Just thought I would throw it out there!

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Originally Posted by jso1985

I still fail to see how being at the end of the pit-lane affects your race performance in a really notorious way...

McLaren can invite less jet-set stars to their paddock now, how is that gonna affect their performance? :confused:

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The only thing it affects is McLaren's prestige now that they have to hang out among the "recycled driver" teams!

Hey, Ron! Watch out for those camels. They spit pretty far! ;)

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headline...02085825.shtml

McLaren's demotion to the bottom of the pitlane pecking order in Bahrain is an unofficial sanction by the governing body, a major German newspaper claims.

It emerged last week that, despite settling into the fifth allocation of garages at the opening two races of 2008, the Mercedes-powered team would be relocated to the farthest end of the pits for the Bahrain Grand Prix this weekend.

McLaren's higher pitlane residence in Australia and Malaysia was the result of a deal with F1 Chief Executive Bernie Ecclestone, despite the team's exclusion from the 2007 constructors' championship.

But because the garage allocations are ultimately governed by FIA regulations, and not the commercial rights holder, the Paris body led by President Max Mosley has the final say about how the teams line up at races.

Ecclestone had agreed to the reprieve so that one of F1's two title contenders can still have access to the highest level of facilities at all the circuits this year.

At modern venues like Malaysia and Bahrain, the lower garage allocations still afford top class facilities that are comparable to the teams at the premier end of pitlane.

BUT.........and this is getting weird! well F1 already is more than weird

Bild claims that the FIA's annulment of the McLaren-Ecclestone concession is related to the governing body's understanding that - at the end of the 'spygate' scandal - Ron Dennis would be stepping down as team boss in 2008.

Well Boys what do you make of this? You think that Bernie told Max We can show that a freak can kick Denis's @$$ therefore his Hyjinx with whatever you would like to call it has not affected his athority!
What a world!!http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_166.gif

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

I don't like much of the bile that has been thrown at McLaren in recent times, but this is rather different.

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True :up: The fact is McLaren were stripped of their points and so finished last in the WCC. That means they get positioned at the end of the pit lane, and that's where they should have been from the start of the season.

For whatever reasons they weren't 'put in their place' by the FIA/FOM and once again the authorities have made a pigs ear of the situation :down:

We might forget the consequence of being stripped off from their WCC title they should be positioned at the last pit lane, we might too much focus on ranking of WDC and their overall impressive performance while pit lane formation was made from WCC points slightly overlooked.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

Why? These are the rules, and the effect the decision will have on the team's race performance will surely be minimal at most, though I would appreciate a bit of consistency.

I don't like much of the bile that has been thrown at McLaren in recent times, but this is rather different.

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I don't care where they are as long as it's consistant.

You don't just turn up at the pits and unpack. There is planning for facilities, corporate hospitality etc. This is very disruptive and once more, McLaren have all their plans changed at the last second. So, what do they drop for Bahrain now they have 25% less room for everything?

Let's face facts. McLaren were caught with their hand in the cookie jar. We all know that since Motor Racing started, engineers have always jumped ship with IP but that doesn't change the fact that McLaren were in the wrong and the FIA acted with a draconian fine and the removal of all points. Now, why Renault didn't get hammered is anyones guess but we must just live with that. END OF STORY!!

Let them get on with it FFS, not all this shifting around and inconsistency. They have done the punishment and accepted it. You can't keep disrupting them like this although I think this is more to do with Max's vendetta than anything else, but that's just my gut feeling.

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

I don't care where they are as long as it's consistant.

You don't just turn up at the pits and unpack. There is planning for facilities, corporate hospitality etc. This is very disruptive and once more, McLaren have all their plans changed at the last second. So, what do they drop for Bahrain now they have 25% less room for everything?

Let's face facts. McLaren were caught with their hand in the cookie jar. We all know that since Motor Racing started, engineers have always jumped ship with IP but that doesn't change the fact that McLaren were in the wrong and the FIA acted with a draconian fine and the removal of all points. Now, why Renault didn't get hammered is anyones guess but we must just live with that. END OF STORY!!

Let them get on with it FFS, not all this shifting around and inconsistency. They have done the punishment and accepted it. You can't keep disrupting them like this although I think this is more to do with Max's vendetta than anything else, but that's just my gut feeling.

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Top shelf

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

You can't keep disrupting them like this although I think this is more to do with Max's vendetta than anything else, but that's just my gut feeling.

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It was the FOM to decide it. And the Fom is Bernie, not Max! So, wrong feelings!

Frankly it doesn't matter who is making the decision. The fact is the FIA stripped McLaren of their points and so they should be at the end of the pitlane.

All this messing about with where they're put, seemingly on a race by race basis, doesn't exactly inspire confidence in the way the sport is being managed, whether that be by FOM or the FIA.

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Originally Posted by ioan

It was the FOM to decide it. And the Fom is Bernie, not Max! So, wrong feelings!

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I just have a gut feeling that Max (i.e. the FIA) is behind this and not FOM. No evidence, just a gut feeling and my gut feelings are usually right ;)

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

This is very disruptive and once more, McLaren have all their plans changed at the last second. So, what do they drop for Bahrain now they have 25% less room for everything?

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Everything that doesn't belong to them?

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

I just have a gut feeling that Max (i.e. the FIA) is behind this and not FOM. No evidence, just a gut feeling and my gut feelings are usually right ;)

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If you say so, it's just that the ones related to F1 are not! ;)

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Originally Posted by tamburello

Everything that doesn't belong to them?

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Your a real pistol!! nice one!
:rotflmao:

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Q. (Patrick Salomon - Gulf Daily News) A question for Lewis: were you guys surprised by the sudden change in allocation of your garages and will that affect you guys at all?
LH: No, to be honest I quite like it down there. We're nice and out of the way, it's closer to the pit entry of the circuit and it's actually quite cosy down there, so we'll do the best shot we can. It makes no difference.

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http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/66311

This is the kind of crap, that by fans thinking it's important, it givesownership and more importantly advertisers amunition to cotinually demand better facilities. Because the "players" have earned and deserve them. BS. This is my last baseball comparison, and the only reason I make it is because the spectacle disgust me. "It's like Bob Gibson saying he had a bad outing because The team owner(adolphus Bush) couldn't get a beer in the visitor owners box as effortlessly as the Don Drysdale's owner Walter O'mally could!
Let's put an end to the Pu$$ification of Competition!

The garage change might not too much give LH effect. During domination of Ferrari many teams had dream about their garage to be the next to Ferrari's. Team and drivers get motivated from the way crew speedy handling the job.

If this can be categorized as disadvantage, they must walk trough all teams' garage before entering theirs, this means there should be more traffic, especially when all teams decided to enter pit lane during SC deployed.
Once LH comes to the pit behind Massa or Jr, they could possibly drive the car slower to hold him off. :D

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Originally Posted by leopardsleeping

The garage change might not too much give LH effect. During domination of Ferrari many teams had dream about their garage to be the next to Ferrari's. Team and drivers get motivated from the way crew speedy handling the job.

If this can be categorized as disadvantage, they must walk trough all teams' garage before entering theirs, this means there should be more traffic, especially when all teams decided to enter pit lane during SC deployed.
Once LH comes to the pit behind Massa or Jr, they could possibly drive the car slower to hold him off. :D

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Isaid this back when it was understood that McLaren was to have what at that time people seemed to be in agreement about the rule or spirit there of. I think it could be a huge advantage if the team at the end of the pit brought in their driver that is in lets say p10 on the same lap that the driver in p1 pits in pit position one. The crew in the last pit position can put in the optimum amout of fuel without letting the car in pit position one get out ahead of him. Thus being able to keep that car behind him epecially if he short filled untill his teamate on a different fuel strategy makes hay on a clear track. Not likely to happen every race. But I think that having the closest competitors near each other make for a more level playing field! To say nothing of the fact that neither team would be inclined to bend the rules because you have each other at arms length!

It could also be like that. As I said it is possible to happen under SC. The formation may change. Those at the end of pit can make adjustment when the driver have to get out.

In normal race this strategy is not easy and have its risk. Supposing those in pit1 spent 8 sec, those in pit10 must left behind, say +3. So he can get out ahead only if the crew spent 4 sec. There aren't too much the crew can do with only 4 sec. They can't fuel up the car or change any tires. :D

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Originally Posted by ioan

It was the FOM to decide it. And the Fom is Bernie, not Max! So, wrong feelings!

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Originally Posted by ioan

If you say so, it's just that the ones related to F1 are not! ;)

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As I said, my gut feelings are usually right :p :

It was said on ITV coverage that a strong but unconfirmed rumour was that it was Max's decision. Obviously, he's not around to confirm it in person.

Perhaps recent events explain why Max is so detirmined to "punish" McLaren. He almost seems to take a perverse pleasure in perpetuating the ordeal. (unconfirmed) :D

This will come out in the end :)

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

As I said, my gut feelings are usually right :p :

It was said on ITV coverage that a strong but unconfirmed rumour was that it was Max's decision. Obviously, he's not around to confirm it in person.

Perhaps recent events explain why Max is so detirmined to "punish" McLaren. He almost seems to take a perverse pleasure in perpetuating the ordeal. (unconfirmed) :D

This will come out in the end :)

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McLaren were assigned the last pit boxes already before the Mosley affair started! So it is no personal vendetta, only your gut feelings! ;)

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

As I said, my gut feelings are usually right :p :

It was said on ITV coverage that a strong but unconfirmed rumour was that it was Max's decision. Obviously, he's not around to confirm it in person.

Perhaps recent events explain why Max is so detirmined to "punish" McLaren. He almost seems to take a perverse pleasure in perpetuating the ordeal. (unconfirmed) :D

This will come out in the end :)

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Please tell me where McLeran should be if not at the "last place teams" put stalls? What magical formula dictates a 5th place pit stall?!?!

I really don't give a FRAK if your gut tells you it was Mosleys dicision or not, IT IS THE RIGHT ONE...

I too think that Mosley f'd up last years stepney gate scandal. I'll say it again, FIA should of handed a monetary fine for just possesing another teams property, and when it came to light that documentation was the cause for the "movebale floors" fiasco, and the attempt to imitate Ferrari gasses, Macleran should have been shown the door for 2 years (Maybe give Mercedes the option to come back san Dennis, if the Macleran nameplate stayed home for the 2 years...)

Mac fans should be very carefull wishing for Mosley's demise... his replacement could be like me!

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Originally Posted by PSfan

Please tell me where McLeran should be if not at the "last place teams" put stalls? What magical formula dictates a 5th place pit stall?!?!

I really don't give a FRAK if your gut tells you it was Mosleys dicision or not, IT IS THE RIGHT ONE...

I too think that Mosley f'd up last years stepney gate scandal. I'll say it again, FIA should of handed a monetary fine for just possesing another teams property, and when it came to light that documentation was the cause for the "movebale floors" fiasco, and the attempt to imitate Ferrari gasses, Macleran should have been shown the door for 2 years (Maybe give Mercedes the option to come back san Dennis, if the Macleran nameplate stayed home for the 2 years...)

Mac fans should be very carefull wishing for Mosley's demise... his replacement could be like me!

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Someone like Jean Todt will certainly make McLaren fans happy! :D

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Originally Posted by ioan

Someone like Jean Todt will certainly make McLaren fans happy! :D

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Can't be any worse than it is now, can it?

Whoever takes over, needs to have a skeleton free wardrobe.... ;)

Just read the F1 blog on www.timesonline.co.uk (yeah, I know, who owns the paper?).

But there are two very interesting articles on there.

One involves a conversation that Bernie had with Max, while Bernie was with Crown Prince of Bahrain, which might have been overheard...

Second is the mystery complainants in the McLaren garage saga...

I'll let y'all read it and make up your own minds. ;)

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Originally Posted by Phoenix

Just read the F1 blog on www.timesonline.co.uk (yeah, I know, who owns the paper?).

But there are two very interesting articles on there.

One involves a conversation that Bernie had with Max, while Bernie was with Crown Prince of Bahrain, which might have been overheard...

Second is the mystery complainants in the McLaren garage saga...

I'll let y'all read it and make up your own minds. ;)

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Um, for the first time I have tried to leave a comment on a "real" blog...

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Originally Posted by psfan on times f1 blog

Hey Ed, do you write a F1 blog, or a gossip column?!? "I'm in Bahrain for a motor race. I'd almost forgotten about that bit - you know, cars, tyres, race strategies, drivers." I'll give you a little hint why you might have forgotten about all those f1 related subjects... Because you are far more interested in non-formula 1 concerns... Go write an article on whether Britney Spears is still wearing panties... seems that is more up your alley then covering a sport...

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Wonder if it will be shown...

As to his Blog concerning Macs pit spot... I still don't care how, who, or why MacLeran was moved out of pit #5... It was the right move. And Unless Bernie and other powers that be where feeding us pure crap at Australia, this move happened a race to late!!!

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Originally Posted by PSfan

Please tell me where McLeran should be if not at the "last place teams" put stalls? What magical formula dictates a 5th place pit stall?!?!

I really don't give a FRAK if your gut tells you it was Mosleys dicision or not, IT IS THE RIGHT ONE...

I too think that Mosley f'd up last years stepney gate scandal. I'll say it again, FIA should of handed a monetary fine for just possesing another teams property, and when it came to light that documentation was the cause for the "movebale floors" fiasco, and the attempt to imitate Ferrari gasses, Macleran should have been shown the door for 2 years (Maybe give Mercedes the option to come back san Dennis, if the Macleran nameplate stayed home for the 2 years...)

Mac fans should be very carefull wishing for Mosley's demise... his replacement could be like me!

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For the hard of understanding, I will explain my position again :rolleyes:

I do not dispute that McLaren should be at the end of the Garage. If that is the ruling, that is the ruling.

What I think is unfair is this continual disruption of McLarens preperations this season. You plan all your races and what equipment you need to take months in advance and to turn round a few days before the meeting and announce you have gone from 3 to 2 garages is not fair.

Hopefully, the FIA have finished messing about with McLarens season and Max has other things to concentrate on rather than his continuing vendetta with Ron. The whole affair is distasteful and should now be finished.

As for Max's replacement at the FIA, let us just pray for the good of the sport that someone of your calibre is not considered ;)

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

For the hard of understanding, I will explain my position again :rolleyes:

I do not dispute that McLaren should be at the end of the Garage. If that is the ruling, that is the ruling.

What I think is unfair is this continual disruption of McLarens preperations this season. You plan all your races and what equipment you need to take months in advance and to turn round a few days before the meeting and announce you have gone from 3 to 2 garages is not fair.

Hopefully, the FIA have finished messing about with McLarens season and Max has other things to concentrate on rather than his continuing vendetta with Ron. The whole affair is distasteful and should now be finished.

As for Max's replacement at the FIA, let us just pray for the good of the sport that someone of your calibre is not considered ;)

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Sorry Knock-on, you are jumping to way to many conclusions...

Do you know for a fact that the teams in Australia and Malaysia the teams weren't given equal amount of pit space? or if MacLeran where given the same amount of pit space as if they finished 5th or 11th in the championship? I already stated in this thread that in one race last year, Williams was placed in the oppisite end of pit lane to the defending champions pit, but they where also given the space allotment they had earned from their previous season's results.

MacLeran should be well aware by now where they finished in the standings and should have been prepared for this change considering that "Not enough space in Australia" should not translate to Bahrain giving them more spacethen they deserve. If they thought they deserved more pit space then teams that finished higher in the constructor then they are responsible for bringing to much to the track... Though I suspect that wasn't an issue for MacLeran as I assume they where given the pit space allotment for a team finishing 11th in the championship, in both in Australia and Malaysia.

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Originally Posted by PSfan

Please tell me where McLeran should be if not at the "last place teams" put stalls? What magical formula dictates a 5th place pit stall?!?!

I really don't give a FRAK if your gut tells you it was Mosleys dicision or not, IT IS THE RIGHT ONE...

I too think that Mosley f'd up last years stepney gate scandal. I'll say it again, FIA should of handed a monetary fine for just possesing another teams property, and when it came to light that documentation was the cause for the "movebale floors" fiasco, and the attempt to imitate Ferrari gasses, Macleran should have been shown the door for 2 years (Maybe give Mercedes the option to come back san Dennis, if the Macleran nameplate stayed home for the 2 years...)

Mac fans should be very carefull wishing for Mosley's demise... his replacement could be like me!

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Good point! Personally I don't think Max has done that bad a job I't's a tough one, and when you have to be balast for stupid $!1+ Bernie does. Alot of times you are in volved in damage control(no pun intende) the current state of F1 is messed up. People can have their opinions on why. But don't insult us by playing the Max card here!

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

For the hard of understanding, I will explain my position again :rolleyes:

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I think people did understand your point quite well, they just don't agree with it. So, no need to belittle others with such comments. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

What I think is unfair is this continual disruption of McLarens preperations this season..........

............Hopefully, the FIA have finished messing about with McLarens season and Max has other things to concentrate on rather than his continuing vendetta with Ron.

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Oh boo-hoo, it's just not fair that a team that has lied and cheated and disgraced the memory of Bruce Mclaren should be made to go to the end of the pitlane and have only two garages!

Mclaren are fecking lucky to be in the sport and certainly do not deserve to be.

Considering that, my opinion is that they should count themselves fortunate to be in a garage at all.

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Originally Posted by tamburello

Oh boo-hoo, it's just not fair that a team that has lied and cheated and disgraced the memory of Bruce Mclaren should be made to go to the end of the pitlane and have only two garages!

Mclaren are fecking lucky to be in the sport and certainly do not deserve to be.

Considering that, my opinion is that they should count themselves fortunate to be in a garage at all.

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Now you are driving him mad! :D