When (and if) Loeb wins in Finland I would say he´s better, but until that Tommi is better of those two, because he has win in France (MonteCarlo stages run in France)
Juha Matti Pellervo is better than those two!
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When (and if) Loeb wins in Finland I would say he´s better, but until that Tommi is better of those two, because he has win in France (MonteCarlo stages run in France)
Juha Matti Pellervo is better than those two!
Loeb beat teammates who where world champions and had life in them still......Mcrae Sainz and young hopefulls like Sordo...who has tommi beat ???? Loix ?? a newcomer burns ?? and when he moved to subaru where no Lampi was there to do his magic he got beaten into shame and retirement !!! Paper Champion.
Gronholm or Kankkunen are far better comparisons to Loeb than Tommi.....
And I always thought that main purpose of driving in WRC is to win the championship and not only to beat your teammate. Tommi won the title 4 times.Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
When he moved to Subaru he was already "cooling down" I think. Petter was faster than Tommi then, but now that Atkinson is faster than Petter does it mean that Atkinson is faster than Tommi is? I doubt that.
I don;t see any cooling down from Mr Loeb after 4 titles....Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodeye
Your team mate shows you level of skill better than everybody, the overprotected Tommi never had a worthy team mate (hence the 1 mistu manufacturer ttile in the 4 years of his Farce) and also he always was receiving the best from Mr lampi. and you compare that man to Loeb ???? on second thought carrying the spare tyre or Mr Loeb is a bit too much of task for tommi.....
So you say his achievements should be measured only against his useless team-mates? And not against drivers like, Colin McRae, Carlos Sainz, Didier Auriol, Richard Burns, Piero Liatti, Kenneth Eriksson, Juha Kankkunen and co who he beat during the years he won his titles? Yeah right :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
Also you should skip the legend about a test driver having such a big influence in a team that you claim Lasse Lampi had. It's just a story the supporters of these useless team mates of Tommi made up to cover up the lack of the skill their idols had.
again you miss the point.....Makinen was a world class driver and deserved 1-2 champiosnhips....but the comparison to loeb is not valid. Colin carlos and didier were never in a team which heavily favoured them (maybe only carlos)Quote:
Originally Posted by DonJippo
And how do you expalin his performance in the Subaru which again was No1 until he was beaten senseless by Solberg ??? Lasse Lampi fade into oblivion after Makinen left mitsu.....
we are talikng about legends of the sport here not legends of the numbers....Loeb manages to combine these two.
And for the record my favourite of all times and the greatest in my Book is kankkunen despite the fact that wasn't able to win on tarmac...the guy managed to win in every car imaginable and his legend spanned through 3 different eras not just 3 decades (2 and a half to be exact) !!!
As pointed out by World Rally Radio, it is interesting that Loeb has been fast in Citroen where almost nobody else has been since. Sainz and Sordo have been able to get podiums and the occaisional win (eg. Sainz in Argentina) but put others in the car, eg. Pons, McRae, Duval, and they're slow or break it through accident damage or mechanical failure.
Loeb has his own team at Citroen just like Makinen did at Mitsubishi. I agree that Loeb had more competitive teammates like Colin, Carlos, Duval, Sordo, but none of his teammates was go-to guy for Citroen because Loeb was the go-to guy even in 2003. So I wouldn't say Makinen had advantage being the center of Mitsu in his golden years.
I'm not in anybody's corner, though I'd vote for Kankkunen. I'm not sure Makinen would be quick in a Le Mans car, and remember Loeb was quick in the Renault F1 car. Loeb is probably the greatest Motorsport driver at the current time - he's quick in everything.
Tomi was quick on tarmac but as he has never tried GT or F1 I guess we'll never know.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyRAC
I do believe most of the WDC rally drivers we've had over the years would prove quick in a F1 car, especially a TC equipped F1 car as in Loebs case. Unfortunately very few, as far as Im aware, other than Colin and Seb, have had the opportunity.
Tomi drove the Winfield Williams F1 and if I remember he had an off...Quote:
Originally Posted by Zico
Interesting, wasnt aware of that and google brings up nothing. Do you have a link?Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon
Yeah, it was at Catalunya in 1998 I think. He got the gear shift paddles mixed up and instead of changing up he changed down while coming down the main straight I think. Whoops!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon
Found it..
"Driving a Formula One car is very difficult as demonstrated by both Michael
Doohan and Tommi Makinen this week. On Wednesday Michael Doohan - 500cc motorcycle world champion - tested Villeneuve's 1997 championship-winning car and spun off after four corners at the Catalunya track near Barcelona.
Today Tommi Makinen - reigning world rally champion - managed to do eight
laps when he spun off while doing 175 mph. "I am so disappointed," Makinen
said afterwards. "At around 175 mph I tried to change up a gear from fifth
to sixth but thought I was in my rally car and tried to change down and all
I could do was wait until I stopped spinning." Both escaped unhurt - the
car didn't. Jacques Villeneuve wanted to drive the Mitsubishi and the 500cc
motorcycle but Frank Williams didn't let him as he didn't want the Canadian
to get injured. "I know Jacques a little," Frank Williams said. "He'll try
to smash the lap record - he does everything on full speed and I can't risk
it."
https://www-auth.cs.wisc.edu/lists/v...msg02094.shtml
The Williams paddleshift a reversal of his rallycars?... nightmare!
I would vote for Kankkunen. Loeb/Makinen makes an interesting comparison on one hand: 1. Both were very much at the centre on their respective team's plans and 2. Other drivers /team mates had great difficulty in adapting to the same cars which Makinen and Loeb were/are so successful in.
On the other hand, I do not think that it is possible to compare Makinen's success with Loeb's. All you need to do is look at the number of manufacturers and top flight drivers who were competing during Makinen's reign, versus Loeb's. Makinen's reign took place on a very, very different different playing field from the one Loeb dominates today.
:laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
You have got to be kidding, surely?