Sorry, but I have 5-bucks that says Champ Car does not answer the bell in 2008...

hello Mr. McLeagal, than you for your response. Well, it IS a pretty long list of "problems", do you really think they can all be fixed by next year ? Or can they all be fixed at all ?

I am afraid that, yes, long-term, the lack of the Indy 500 will ultimatley allow the gIRL to at least continue to exist even with CCWS continuing (thus prolonging the 'split' and exacerbating the current problems such as lack of sponsorship, confused viewers and press coverage) or prosper, especially if CCWS does not continue.

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Originally Posted by SoCalPVguy

hello Mr. McLeagal, than you for your response. Well, it IS a pretty long list of "problems", do you really think they can all be fixed by next year ? Or can they all be fixed at all ?

I am afraid that, yes, long-term, the lack of the Indy 500 will ultimatley allow the gIRL to at least continue to exist even with CCWS continuing (thus prolonging the 'split' and exacerbating the current problems such as lack of sponsorship, confused viewers and press coverage) or prosper, especially if CCWS does not continue.

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Glad to have you back too McL...though I'm siding with EEye on NHL taking a walk as I'm pretty certain PN's hanging it up after this season. As far as the I500 and CCWS not surviving without it, I think it's more about the fact that securing sponsorship even when you have the 500 and can announce your schedule on time, is getting more difficult by the year and thus far, no one has been able to truly counter that issue. KK, despite his own blather and the kool-aid drinkers beliefs, cannot fund a failing business model forever either. So really, there are issues here that clearly hit the management side as all have agreed, but haven't hit the larger problems connected to money. Europe is definitely NOT the answer because the series getting sanction fees for a year or two does not help the teams find sponsors that will spend enough to make them solvent. The recent A1GP/Ferrari deal is also a major stumbling block abroad because it won't take long for David Clare to go after more races and run not just in the off season. Notwithstanding the fact that tracks over there have already been booked for next season and CCWS is in no position to upend anyone at this juncture, especially when they're holding their hand out just to enter a dialogue. Finally, if KK/GF are going to call it a day, they'll have to figure a pretty clever way to get the best value out of the assets they purchased that were supposed to "cement" CCWS in racing for many years to come...IMO

Just the typical doom and gloom from fence sitters and IRL lovers.

For 2008 the promoters will be strong and the schedule will be set with long term goals and dates. There will be more teams with solid sponsors. The key to the 2008 season will be the series presenting sponsor that will be announced before Mexico. It will be a dual sponsor targeting both North America and Europe.

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Originally Posted by mike15

Just the typical doom and gloom from fence sitters and IRL lovers.

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Lets see...the series cancels 3 races this year, teams are switching drivers at breakneck pace from week-to-week, KK's going to court next week and the scheduled is being delayed for at least another month. Yep, you're right, just alot of doom and gloom talk for no good reason.

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Originally Posted by SoCalPVguy

Also it is also a fact that PG had Spearmint Rhino strip clubs logos on the side pods for the Europe races but took them off under protest from either Pettit or maybe KK. AR1 had a picture up for a while but it was so embarrassng that CCWS asked them to take it down. See link to Spearmint Rhino website (definately not safe for work !!!)

As you can see, neither of these entities are sponsors that IMHO should be associated w/ CCWS and it is my understanding both were being pushed by PG.

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I believe it was Larry Flynt's Hustler clubs on the side pods. If I recall the photo correctly, it was a beaver or some such creature, in top hat, tails and a walking stick as the logo.

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Originally Posted by mike15

Just the typical doom and gloom from fence sitters and IRL lovers.

For 2008 the promoters will be strong and the schedule will be set with long term goals and dates. There will be more teams with solid sponsors. The key to the 2008 season will be the series presenting sponsor that will be announced before Mexico. It will be a dual sponsor targeting both North America and Europe.

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LOL!!! Nearly spit my coffee all over the keyboard...definitely one of the funniest posts of the last six months, or at least since Sanguin joined :) Who's the sponsor Preparation H...to cure the redness and swelling all over the place :) ...too funny

Mike 15

25 days and counting....

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Originally Posted by mike15

Just the typical doom and gloom from fence sitters and IRL lovers.

For 2008 the promoters will be strong and the schedule will be set with long term goals and dates. There will be more teams with solid sponsors. The key to the 2008 season will be the series presenting sponsor that will be announced before Mexico. It will be a dual sponsor targeting both North America and Europe.

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Mike buddy, you are either the most optimistic fella in the world, or completely missing what happened this year.

The fact is that SoCal there wouldn't get me to take his bet, because while I agree that Champ Car will take the bell, I wouldn't want to stake my money on it. Maybe your money, but not MY money.

I think if Champ Car was run professionally, competentantly and had money spent THIS last year on putting more teams on the grid and retaining name drivers, coupled with a schedule and better choices in their promotors, they would have a chance. This last year was the acid test I think. If they had grown this last year, they would turn the corner. In any business venture, if its the third and fourth years that often are the points where the business either leaps forward, or dies. We are watching death, unless new sugar daddies show up and plough money into this. The sad thing is, KK and the Amigo's made good moves in the first few years, and did a good thing putting the Panoz on the grid THIS year. Then they quit on this series. They quit on their fans, they just quit on themselves.

Oh sure, a few of you are saying, "but they are getting events in Europe, they are going back to Laguna Seca..." and to this I say, they are trying to milk a couple of cows before selling the milk and walking away. When they allowed Ranger to walk, when they did nothing to address the lack of entries, and when they have not indicated any new teams are buying cars, that says VOLUMES about the business model and where it is going. They have done no real solid promotion, their webpage has been often out of date, their promoting partners have been half hearted in their web sites and selling of tickets, and there has been just no buzz. Couple that with the childish antics of booting Robin Miller from his hard card status and their general lack of media presence,and the worst TV coverage for the series in YEARS (no one needs to hear my complaints about lack of TV quality)and this series is just committing suicide. There was no reason for it.

SoCal guy, you are pretty much right on the money, and you come from a similar viewpoint to me...a fan who is frustrated and hurt by the lack of professionalism and marketing savvy by this series....

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Originally Posted by heelntoe

LOL!!! Nearly spit my coffee all over the keyboard...definitely one of the funniest posts of the last six months, or at least since Sanguin joined :) Who's the sponsor Preparation H...to cure the redness and swelling all over the place :) ...too funny

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I think one of the few possible saving graces could come in the form of long term deals for race venues. CC needs to out there now (in light of the deplyed schedule announcement) cementing deals for the 08 calander and ensuring that these deals also cement the 09 list. this way CC can announce the 08 lineup (albeit late) and also say right away that this is the schedule for 09, then we may have a chance to lure new sponsors in based on the very early announcement of the 09 calander. the teams and the series can plan well into 09 right now, and that is beneficial in all regards. Not too sure of CC would see thsi far ahead but if I were out there negotiating new events for 08, part of that discussion would have to be about the committment and date for 09 so that it can be announced right away so everyone can plan. Hey if you are having the discussion with a promoter or city, spend 5 more minutes discussing the following year and confirmed date right now. My 2 cents.

That is a good idea, Mike, but when you're up to your butt in alligators, it's hard to remember that your original objective was to drain the swamp.

CC is in a tough position to talk about '08, much less about '09. It's had three canceled races in '07 and I'm sure there were contracts in place for those, so what is a CC contract worth? Then there's San Jose as a "model" for a tough sell for street races.

IMO, '08 is the most difficult schedule CC has ever had to put together...virtually all of the outside promoters have issues.