So they should invade now with no diplomacy I take it? :rolleyes:
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So they should invade now with no diplomacy I take it? :rolleyes:
I very much agree with this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiero 5.7
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
yes thats what i said, thank you for making my point so succinctly for me! :rolleyes:
i said i don't have a solution, but we have been attempting some half hearted diplomacy for nearly 20 years, (since the last uprising was brutally put down in 1988), and i've not heard any countries pledging support to the military in Burma, it seems a slightly more hardline approach might be in order. there is an elected opposition leader under house arrest, any political opposition is rountinely detained, and reportedly totured or killed, seemingly against the wishes of the general populous, something should be done. i don't know what, and i'd certainly rather military action was avoided, but the people who are eductaed and paid to make these decisions surely should be able to get together on a world stage and effect a change.
making disappointed noises in the press acheives nothing, it should be brought onto the agenda of the major powers and i'd hope they can agree on how to tackle the issue.
idealistic? maybe, but i see no reason why this can not be acheived
The problem is that they are getting support from China. There is talk of sanctions, but these are vetoed at the UN by China.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robinho
The opposition leader was recently transfered to the insane gaol (the most feared in the country).
So if the US invades you're against it and if they don't the problem continues and it's not good enough. Either way it's win/win for the Burmese junta.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robinho
If they we invaded Myanmar/Burma, whether it succeeds or not, it would restore my faith in the idea that us Western countries can do good for goods sake. That maybe we would put ourselves out even when it offers no real benefit to us.
Invasion without having a workable solution all ready to be put into place immediately is folly.
At one time or another many of these countries were colonies of the western powers. They demanded and in some cases fought for their independence.
Welcome to being independant. Whats going on is a part of being independant and most independant countries have had their civil wars of one sort or another. It's your culture, your people, your religion. Settle it yourselves. Just because every tribe and ethnic group wants to be their own nation doesn't mean it's smart, practical, or even going to happen but if they insist on pushing the issue, this kind of thing is going to happen.
Personally, I get tired of hearing the West needs to get out, the West needs to come back and rescue us from ourselves, thank you the West needs to get out again, but stay by the phone...ok?
Sadly, I agree with you. My view is a bit idealistic and maybe there is nothing we can do. The sad thing is that in alot of these developing countries the military seems to be above politics. Or atleast sees it self as the true guardian on the national interest. When the leaders of that military abuse that position there just doesn't appear to be any real obvious sollution.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiero 5.7
For all of you wringing your hands on why the West doesn't do anything, the answer is simple. China. Nothing in this part of the world will happen or not happen without China giving the final say. Why? No one wants to war with them, and if Myanmar's butchers want to do what they are doing, they do it with the tacit knowledge that the US or UK will not be able to stop it.
If there was oil there, the Chinese would have invaded long ago by the way, either by economics or outright force.
This little nation is a tragedy but it just points out to the weakness of the UN and the system such as it is to deal with this sort of thing. WHen a nation goes against the UN and tries on humantarian grounds to stop the oppression, it usually is castigated for having ulterior motives.
All of you who think the international community and the UN is the way to solve all problems, well here is a perfect example of how feckless it is. Power is gained by the mouth of a well aimed gun, and winning wars. Some nations do so with somewhat tainted motives, but a few try to do the right thing, but at some point, the war you create can be bigger than the problem you are trying to solve. Such is Myanamar.
These thugs deserve to be tossed in jail for life or shot, but no one will do it because to do it would entail either the Chinese actually giving a rat's behind and giving their blessing, or a war with the Chinese to go into their sphere of influence......
Most nations care, but not enough that they can do a damned thing. Hey, I have an idea, lets get the US to do it.... of course, that is the answer to most of the problems of the world since they seem to be the only ones to actually be willing on occasion go in, but everyone doesn't trust them for doing it. Maybe in Iraq, the point could be made, but it still doesn't change the fact that American is blamed for whatever happens no matter whether they do it or not....
is invasion the only option. can no-one use a more effective form of diplomatic pressure. did I mention the US? i certainly would be against a single nations act in this case, and i do belive we (as in the "west") have made some mistakes in the recent past, whether the motives/results have been correct, but i am no entering that discussion. this is a completley separate issue and should be dealt with as such.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
i agree the UN is powerless due to China's veto, in which case we should be working harder with China on this and a number of other issues to reach a compromise, the last thing i am suggesting is all out war, or individual invasions.
if the root of the problem is China, then why are they vetoing things, what is their beef, can we not work closer with them as a nation, will they compromise in some of their approaches.
if the answer is no, then maybe another aproach is required, as this surely not be the last event to see the Un powerless again. i can appreciate that China sees a free Burma as further erdoing their own position of power, but surely China is beginning to realise that to further itself the answer does not lie in cutting itself off from the rest of the world, but by further integrating itself in the world economy and exertig its power through business if it wants, as a more free state. this is unlikely to happen for many years, if at all, in the mean time Burma crumbles and the populous are forgotten again.
its a catch 22, i still have no answer, but i'm not a head of state or a UN ambassador, these arethe guys who IMO should be doing everything in their power to effect a change in heart somewhere aong the line