FIA sends spy case to Court of Appeal

On another (related) note, would those in the forum community who do not doubt the integrity of Ron Dennis please explain why, at the 2003 Brazilian GP, did he blatantly and publically attempt, and for a shortwhile achieve, to rob the real and deserved winner of his victory by saying that he hadn't completed the lap when he knew only too well that Giancarlo Fisichella had completed the lap before the third place car crashed?

Not exactly the actions of a man whose integrity is beyond doubt.

Just thought I'd mention it.

To the people who argue that McLaren should be punished, because Coughlan was a member of the team - do you think drivers should be included. So when Schumacher got punished in Jerez 97, why didn't Ferrari get their points taken aware from them - only Michael Schumacher?

Or is that different somehow?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tamburello

On another (related) note, would those in the forum community who do not doubt the integrity of Ron Dennis please explain why, at the 2003 Brazilian GP, did he blatantly and publically attempt, and for a shortwhile achieve, to rob the real and deserved winner of his victory by saying that he hadn't completed the lap when he knew only too well that Giancarlo Fisichella had completed the lap before the third place car crashed?

Not exactly the actions of a man whose integrity is beyond doubt.

Just thought I'd mention it.

---

Did Ron knew? I don't remember him coming out and saying he knew all along.

To those who claim McLaren must have known about Coughlan's having the dossiers, because Coughlan said so, do they know believe Stepney when he says he never handed over the dossier? And do they believe Jean Todt when he claims McLaren knew (without showing us any evidence how he knows that), and Ron Dennis saying he or McLaren didn't know about it. At the end of the day, at least 3 of them are lying, its one persons word over the other.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bagwan

When he speaks of "public confidence in the outcome" , he is relating to all the polls being taken all over the internet .

---

So mob rule has taken it's toll

If they want to close this off they need to involve everyone, that includes Ferrari, McLaren, Stepney and Coughlan. Until they clear up this mess no one is going to take them seriously.

Although for some, unless there is a hanging, you are never going to please them whatever the facts.

What a mess this story is....
For my part I am keeping away from saying anything beyond this post. I will just follow this story while shaking my head in disbelief.

:arrows: I don't know what to believe.....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by raphael123

Did Ron knew? I don't remember him coming out and saying he knew all along.

To those who claim McLaren must have known about Coughlan's having the dossiers, because Coughlan said so, do they know believe Stepney when he says he never handed over the dossier? And do they believe Jean Todt when he claims McLaren knew (without showing us any evidence how he knows that), and Ron Dennis saying he or McLaren didn't know about it. At the end of the day, at least 3 of them are lying, its one persons word over the other.

---

At the end of the day at least three are lying?? By now, No one who was "objective" would believe any of them....odd thing is that poor ole NS might be the only innocent one in this whole mess--after all, he did not get caught with his pants down while in the shower or whatever....Now that is a true Alfred Hitchcock kind of twist.....

Somewhere Michael Schumi is having a real big laugh, thinkin ok Luca baby boot my ass out of there...I and me alone put this team together, nothing happenned without my say so-so (and it was no accident I ran over NS's foot, that was just a little warning)---I was as much the team principal as is Ron Dennis at big mc.....I leave and six months later, Ferrari is back to being a silly circus, a dog chasing its tail and tripping over its own feet, :crazy: but now dragging of all people, Ron Dennis, right into the Italian soap opera muck with them hahahaaa :roll: :grenade: :roll:


Team :monkeedan Scuderia, our heroes!!!


Meanwhile, Bernie enrie is off thinking, that little lucky bitty, makin all that money--getting to be as rich as me and all she did was write that stupid hary potter story, she don't have to put up with prima donna driver egos, bloated old farts like Ron Dennis, sly little frenchman like jean todt, and the constant threat that people like toni george will not pay me my millions and the whole operation get taken over by a bank.......and now this silly mess threatening my revenue flow, just when I had Hamie busy ringing up sales and more new money, why he is almost as good as tobacco

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ian McC

So mob rule has taken it's toll

If they want to close this off they need to involve everyone, that includes Ferrari, McLaren, Stepney and Coughlan. Until they clear up this mess no one is going to take them seriously.

Although for some, unless there is a hanging, you are never going to please them whatever the facts.

---

You are right , Ian , although I maybe wouldn't phrase your first line that way .
It seems like the hearing was a bit of a wallabee court , with those attending not hearing both sides of the story . For that fact alone , the decision is being questioned .

The rethink on this is , I think , due to overwhelming opinion , but was technically asked for by the Italian auto federation .


This actually gives me hope that they could come to some sort of agreement here , as they seem to have listened to logic and the public .

But , now comes the hard part . How do we assess the damage ?

McLaren crying out loud as soon as they feel the heat:

Quote:

---

"Following a thoroughly misleading press campaign by Ferrari and pressure from the Automobile Club D'Italia, the FIA has asked the FIA International Court of Appeal to consider the unanimous decision made by the World Motor Sport Council on 26th July 2007," the McLaren team said in the statement.

"Having considered in great detail the full submissions of both Ferrari and McLaren, the World Motorsport Council determined that there was no evidence that any information, passed by a Ferrari team member to a McLaren employee, had been brought into the organisation or provided any benefit whatsoever to the McLaren programme.

"McLaren is not aware of any new information or arguments that have arisen since the meeting of the World Motor Sport Council and therefore assumes that these same materials will now be considered by the FIA International Court of Appeal.

"Whilst this is both disappointing and time-consuming, McLaren is confident that the FIA International Court of Appeal will also exonerate McLaren and we will in the meanwhile continue to focus on our current World Championship programme."

---

What was that about Ferrari making noise and hurting the sport when they felt wronged by the FIA?
Look at McLaren now! They even say that the WMC had a unanimous decision when one of it's members said that it wasn't true!
And they even say that both parties exposed their versions when it was already declared that Ferrari wasn't given the chance to present their case!!!

Spinning the truth didn't get them to far until now and I doubt it will even in the future.

quote=ioan;314896]McLaren crying out loud as soon as they feel the heat:



What was that about Ferrari making noise and hurting the sport when they felt wronged by the FIA?
Look at McLaren now! They even say that the WMC had a unanimous decision when one of it's members said that it wasn't true!
And they even say that both parties exposed their versions when it was already declared that Ferrari wasn't given the chance to present their case!!!

Spinning the truth didn't get them to far until now and I doubt it will even in the future.[/quote]

This was NOT and never was about "truth" and never ever will be.....which is what is sad (but MS was not merely the best driver, but as probably as good a team principal as there ever was--Ferrari is not the same withou him in charge, now becoming more like :roll: :s pin: :rotflmao: :roll: :roll: just like the good ole days

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bagwan

You are right , Ian , although I maybe wouldn't phrase your first line that way .
It seems like the hearing was a bit of a wallabee court , with those attending not hearing both sides of the story . For that fact alone , the decision is being questioned .

The rethink on this is , I think , due to overwhelming opinion , but was technically asked for by the Italian auto federation .


This actually gives me hope that they could come to some sort of agreement here , as they seem to have listened to logic and the public .

But , now comes the hard part . How do we assess the damage ?

---

Actually I take back my comment about mob rule, I now think that the FIA underestimated the reaction to their hearing. I don't think that it's the verdict that's the issue but how they got there. I just hope they don't just slap McLaren with a fine because that will just look like they are just trying to keep everyone quiet and then hope it goes away.

What they need to do is actually investigate what went on, the only way out of this is to get to the truth.