Normally, I would tend to agree with you, but I sense the MoD's or the Government's hand in this, and that is cynical on their part.Quote:
Originally Posted by inimitablestoo
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Normally, I would tend to agree with you, but I sense the MoD's or the Government's hand in this, and that is cynical on their part.Quote:
Originally Posted by inimitablestoo
Each to their own I guess. I was a bit suprised that the MOD allowed it, but I guess perhaps they don't have much say in things like this? I don't know... I don't blame them in the slightest for wanting to talk about it and I'm kinda interested to hear what actually happened after all the staged videos we saw. Personally I'd have more respect and time to listen to some sort of announcement or tv interview with them rather than read it in a tabloid but that's neither here nor there.
As plenty of army, navy and air force people before have been made to keep quiet and not allowed to sell their story until after leaving the forces, this is something new. McNabb was, if I remember right, threatened with all sorts by the armed forces before his story was published. Even after it was released under a different name and with 'based on a true story' tagged on the tittle page he was looking at prison time - then the papers gave his name and so on, leading to it being reprinted under Andy McNabb.
I'm of the feeling it's unfair on those in the past, and those who died before getting a chance, that this group has the chance to make money out of doing the job they are already paid for.
Nobody made them sign up. They agreed when doing so that their work was secret and they would only be able to pass on some details of it. They knew they'd be part of the effort should conflict begin.
I've said previously that I am sure this whole hostage thing was engineered by our government, and now it seems more so. Those sailors where there, unknown to themselves, to be caught and held. The point was to gauge Iran and UK reactions, then manipulate UK feeling on the subject. That seems more obvious now, given the stories not only being allowed but encouraged.
I simply do not believe that. Call me naive, but this strikes me as being too far-fetched.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazell B
I don't care what you believe at the moment. Time may just change your views, along with the details coming out in thirty years' time.
More far-fetched things have turned out to be true. Hitler never was vegitarian, the Germans almost certainly did land on Brit soil (albeit for one night only and partly by accident :p : ) and friendly fire blasted just how many men said to have been shot down by the enemy ......
Next you'll be telling me there's weapons of mass desruction in Iraq, because Tony Blair said so :laugh:
Stranger things have happened. I certainly wouldn't put it past the Government to attempt to hoodwink the nation. They've done it before.Quote:
Originally Posted by BDunnell
Put it this way - Why have these 15 been allowed to tell their story to whomever they like?
Why where they were they where, without the back-up that's normal?
Why were we told they'd been taken, when normally that information wouldn't have been out?
Why were they named? How come their families seemed happy to be filmed?
Sorry, but the entire thing was just far too open for people not to start questioning it all as staged.
I am perfectly capable of working out that some things are obvious attempts to hoodwink, thank you very much, and weapons of mass destruction in Iraq was one of those. Your suggestion that this incident has been concocted is way out of that league — and your idea that, if it was, we would know in 30 years' time is equally far-fetched as the papers relating to such an issue would almost certainly be retained for longer than that rather than being released.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazell B
Like it or not, there is genuine tension at present between Iran and the nations of the coalition operating in Iraq. These are not generally the conditions under which two nations get together and test the water by arranging an incident such as this. The Iranian leadership is too fragmented to have made organising such a thing possible, for a start. We had no direct dialogue between ourselves and the more hard-line elements of the Iranian regime, who, if reports are to be believed, were to a large degree responsible for what happened. It ended up coming to a close because of the more moderate voices. Why would the latter have colluded with the British government to stage a kidnapping of our forces, when they are the very people in Tehran who are counselling against an escalation of the 'conflict'? None of this adds up with the conspiracy theory.
Of course, strange things do happen, but everything tells me that this kidnapping was real, and everything is now telling me that the MoD is misguidedly encouraging the sale of the stories.
I'm all for questioning the actions of any government, especially when it comes to issues relating to Iraq and the 'war against terrorism', about which we have been told a lot that hasn't been true, but I think it is possible to go too far.
I think I've already answered that. The MoD is currently trying to publicise the work of the armed forces in a more 'exciting' way, through various 'engagement' strategies aimed at increasing public awareness of the services. In addition, the Government is, as we all know, desperate for the media to focus on 'positive' stories from operations in Iraq. This is why I believe the sale of the stories has been encouraged.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazell B
These things happen in war. Troops end up in situations without adequate support. It's hardly unusual.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazell B
Yes, it would have been released. We knew about it before when a similar incident occurred a while back, for example. That type of thing simply isn't kept secret any more, and to some extent it never was.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazell B
It is unavoidable that news of their identities will filter out, and then that the names will be released. Again, I see nothing unusual at all in this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazell B
I cannot be bothered messing about with loads of quotes, but shall ask one thing. Where did I say the UK and Iran got together on this? I didn't, you just jumped to that with no evidence. You see, people have ideas when they get information, as you've just proved.Quote:
Originally Posted by BDunnell
My idea was that it appeared staged. I didn't say who by, other than the UK government. Yours was different. It just happened to pop into my tiny female brain when I first heard about them being taken. Feel free to patronise me about it - I'm capable of taking it :laugh:
I think the UK's leading people allowed some sailors to be out there just to see what would happen. It would test the water with Iran and with us at home. Some of the Navy may have known what was happening, but I don't think those on that ship did. For all I know they may have been trying to get Brit hostages taken for months and failed until now. The US have said they thought US personnel where being lined up to be taken, but had covered their backs (I saw this on a News 24 item, so how true it is is anyone's guess) and that Iran had been trying to take either UK or US Navy staff hostage for some time.
I'm fairly sure I'm entittled to my views, or is that too far-fetched? As for being proved right when the papers come out, I don't care either way. By then worse things will have happened and been covered up or opened up.