New controversy

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Originally Posted by mstillhere

If i am correct, this article is not excluding at all that actually both ML and RB did that. I loved teh technicale explanation yet I did not see any mention to that fact that it is against the rules having your wings moving.

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All wings move to some extent. This has already been established clearly in this thread.

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Since now it seems that no team was founnf in contravention of the rules (with the FIA once again unable to prevent teams from cheating) I wonder if and how these two teams would be impacted at their race in Japan.

If they are going to strugle, that would be a clear indication that they both won or score points irregularly wich would be what? The fourth time for RB?

They both should be stripped of their points or victory.

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Whether they cheat is defined by the load tests. There is no misinterpretation of the rules at play here.

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for those of you talking about what happened with Ferrari 2o years ago, I think thay have been dealt with already.

We are moving on and focus on the new cheaters.

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Are you claiming Ferrari were cheating in 2006, and should have been given a race ban then? That would appear consistent with the ill-reasoned claims you are offering in this thread.

Talking about what Ferrari did in the past does not absolve the ML nor RB from doing wrong. Or it does?

Responding to your statement claiming that "all wings move to an extent", the rule, for everybody, clearly states that there must not be a more than 20 mm wings flexibility, in any direction.

My question to you is: why are Ferrari, and Sauber, TR and Mercedes etc. wings not flexing but ML and RB are? Their wings need to flex more than anyone else's? And if so, how much is too much? 50, 60, 100 mm?

Is it maybe because that they are about to lose the championship that makes them more "creative" with their wings? Do they put too much peanut butter in them?

I think we need here just a pinch of common sense and honesty and call it for what it is: they tried to win unfairly and in the case of the RB, as proven, they have been caught several times and not punished enough times. That's mainly why they keep in trying. They are repeat offenders. As far ML is concerned, they are being watched closely from now on.

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Originally Posted by mstillhere

Talking about what Ferrari did in the past does not absolve the ML nor RB from doing wrong. Or it does?

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It does not, if wrongdoing did occur; I am saying the fact that it is a rival of Ferrari that is under scrutiny is a factor in you claiming that they are cheating. That is just my opinion.

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Responding to your statement claiming that "all wings move to an extent", the rule, for everybody, clearly states that there must not be a more than 20 mm wings flexibility, in any direction.

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That is correct. There mustn't be more than 20mm wing deflection. During the load test.

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My question to you is: why are Ferrari, and Sauber, TR and Mercedes etc. wings not flexing but ML and RB are? Their wings need to flex more than anyone else's? And if so, how much is too much? 50, 60, 100 mm?

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How much is too much? See the above answer. The FIA can modify the load tests if they feel the tests are that inadequate.

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Is it maybe because that they are about to lose the championship that makes them more "creative" with their wings? Do they put too much peanut butter in them?
I think we need here just a pinch of common sense and honesty and call it for what it is: they tried to win unfairly and in the case of the RB, as proven, they have been caught several times and not punished enough times. That's mainly why they keep in trying. They are repeat offenders. As far ML is concerned, they are being watched closely from now on.

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It is because technical innovation and pushing the boundaries of the regulations in order to improve vehicle performance is one of the defining points of F1. I honestly don't know why this needs further explaining, so I will leave it at that.

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Originally Posted by mstillhere

If i am correct, this article is not excluding at all that actually both ML and RB did that. I loved teh technicale explanation yet I did not see any mention to that fact that it is against the rules having your wings moving.

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There used to be such a rule. But the FIA effectively revoked it last season when they decided that the only enforcement of it would be through the static load tests. It was a fundamental change in approach as I see it. Previously, everyone understood that rule 3.15 meant that you were not allowed to design aerodynamic parts to move or flex in order to influence the aerodynamics of the car. The tolerances described in rule 3.17 were purely to allow for the fact that even a part not specifically designed to flex, will nevertheless have some degree of flex. But the FIA decided they couldn't or wouldn't enforce that aspect of 3.15, and gave the teams the green light to design parts to flex for aerodynamic benefit, as long as they work within or around the limits set in the scrutineering tests.

Am I the only one to think this is a load of nonsense?

2 (at least) teams are pushing to the extent of the regulations and FIA testing procedures and the FIA will tighten up their procedures to stop them pushing the boundaries.

Neither team is actually cheating (like the Ferrari Damper which sparked Spygate) but are innovating within the regulations.

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

Am I the only one to think this is a load of nonsense?

2 (at least) teams are pushing to the extent of the regulations and FIA testing procedures and the FIA will tighten up their procedures to stop them pushing the boundaries.

Neither team is actually cheating (like the Ferrari Damper which sparked Spygate) but are innovating within the regulations.

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It's nonsense if you understand the rules enough to interpret.

Ferrari are right to question and seek clarification yet considering Ferrari admitted their wind tunnel need recalibration perhaps they should STFU.

And when does pushing the limits become cheating? Many still think Benetton cheated in 1994 with TC.

That was clear cheating. TC was outlawed completely and Benetton carried on using it. That's not pushing boundaries, that's doing something thats specifically banned.

Ah, ah, ah you guy are so funny. So, chetaing now days found a new definition. It's called: "pushing the regulations". Hysterical!! Bravo for the vibrant imagination you guys have. So, I guess who needs rules anymore, right? If somebody breaks them it's oly "creativity" at work. So, I guess RB was unfairly punished for being creative and punishing Vettel for blocking Button and Alonso was just his attempt to see how far he could "push" the regulations.

Oh man, you guys are so funny. I wish you were on TV or something. I would be watching your comedy religioulsly. Ah, ah... pushing the regulations......Prisons are packed with people who just tried to do that...........incredible.......ah, ah, ah