Panther Racing Owner Fined

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Originally Posted by Starter

And a "constructive manner" is going public on Twitter? That'll get you fired in a skinny minute at any employer I know of.

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Yes, it will. But John Barnes is not an employee of the Indy Car Series. Were John Barnes an actual employee of the Indy Car Series, any act of willful misconduct by him could also result in a lawsuit against ICS/IMS. Let's say he's accused of discriminating against females (says he won't hire women as pit crew members). Female potential employees could sue Barnes, but not ICS, unless there was some evidence that the series had the same discriminatory policy. My understanding has always been that the team owners (except for when they held equity interests in CART) were independent contractors, not employees.

I understand that the series (any series) must have rules in place to prohibit (truly) disparaging comments. But IMO, this was a stretch... and an overreaction.

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Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior

Yes, it will. But John Barnes is not an employee of the Indy Car Series. Were John Barnes an actual employee of the Indy Car Series, any act of willful misconduct by him could also result in a lawsuit against ICS/IMS. Let's say he's accused of discriminating against females (says he won't hire women as pit crew members). Female potential employees could sue Barnes, but not ICS, unless there was some evidence that the series had the same discriminatory policy. My understanding has always been that the team owners (except for when they held equity interests in CART) were independent contractors, not employees.

I understand that the series (any series) must have rules in place to prohibit (truly) disparaging comments. But IMO, this was a stretch... and an overreaction.

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While not an actual employee of IndyCar you can be damn sure that the entry forms for the series include a code of conduct similar to a employee contract. By entering into the series he acknowledged that he would abide by this code or face sanctioning.

this happens with every sport.

no matter how bad a referee officiates a game, if a coach or anyone else calls them out in the NFL, NBA, NHL, MLB, NCAA, MLS, etc... they will be fined as well. the coach has a point, but the leagues have to protect their people, no matter how wrong they are.

The employee\employer argument is garbage. The company I work for doesn't exist for me or because of me. Indycar exist because of people like Barnes -- Barnes doesn't exist because of Indycar. Code of conduct aside, as for what was said and the punishment well, it smacks of Indycar being a bit too senstive... and yes -- the truth hurts! Allowing two forms of Turbo would surely result in this. Honda's approach should give them the advantage on ovals and ultimately Indy. If this was the only way to get these two manufacturers to come to Indycar then I understand. Otherwise, I don't.

Bunch of circus clowns...

The Indycar innercircle is maybe 50 people or so. I think Panther racing is even based in Indianapolis. These guys see eachother every week and probably around town too. If Randy had a beef with John Bernard, couldn't he just hop around the block to the Panthershop and talk it out like grownups?
The comparison with NFL and the likes is moot because in the NFL there are thousands of players, coaches, team owners and staff, based all over the country. Indycar on the other hand is maybe a core of 50 people that have known eachother for 15 years and often much longer. With that kind of personal connection, giving a big fine for one tweet is harsh and to me rather offensive.

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Originally Posted by anthonyvop

While not an actual employee of IndyCar you can be damn sure that the entry forms for the series include a code of conduct similar to a employee contract. By entering into the series he acknowledged that he would abide by this code or face sanctioning.

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Yes, I understand that. But if the code of conduct is anything like the ontrack rules in the series, it's safe to say there is a LOT of latitude. So again, IMO, for a series that is just now beginning to turn a new page, this was an overreaction to rather mild criticism. They really do have bigger fish to fry... like that joke of a series website, no mobile apps, enhancing sponsor exposure value, improving the TV ratings, etc. The series should start focusing more on the major items and not get tangled up worrying about minor things.

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Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior

Yes, I understand that. But if the code of conduct is anything like the ontrack rules in the series, it's safe to say there is a LOT of latitude. So again, IMO, for a series that is just now beginning to turn a new page, this was an overreaction to rather mild criticism. They really do have bigger fish to fry... like that joke of a series website, no mobile apps, enhancing sponsor exposure value, improving the TV ratings, etc. The series should start focusing more on the major items and not get tangled up worrying about minor things.

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While I agree with you in what IndyCar needs....allowing "players" to openly criticize the series will not help with improving TV ratings nor enhance sponsorship value. What it does do is justify the beliefs of a small but noisy group of hardcore fans who agree with the criticism (These are already locked in and need not be placated) at the same time turning off potential sponsors and fans.

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Originally Posted by anthonyvop

While I agree with you in what IndyCar needs....allowing "players" to openly criticize the series will not help with improving TV ratings nor enhance sponsorship value. What it does do is justify the beliefs of a small but noisy group of hardcore fans who agree with the criticism (These are already locked in and need not be placated) at the same time turning off potential sponsors and fans.

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No, the criticism didn't help with improving ratings or sponsor value. But what did the news of this fine and probation do? It gave legs to a story that would have otherwise died as soon as other Twitter posts covered it over. Indy Car's handling of the turbo dispute (as well as the whole Lotus affair) is what has rankled people - not Barnes' Twitter post. That the series needed to make a point with Barnes is fine. I'm just saying that their execution was pretty poor. Large (successful) organizations typically don't spend any amount of time addressing small, individual criticisms - and if they do, they typically don't do it publicly. This was not exactly like Goldman Sachs and "Muppetgate".

Considering the continued state of things in AOWR (though somewhat improved at the margin), it would be better (IMO) for ICS to promote ideas that encourage more competitors to join the series, more sponsors to support the series and more fans to watch the series.

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Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior

No, the criticism didn't help with improving ratings or sponsor value. But what did the news of this fine and probation do? .

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It showed the sponsors that the series is finally getting control of the business and that insubordination will be brought under control. A plus

Well, now that they've killed this fly with a sledgehammer, maybe they'll get around to fixing the website (something that should have been done before the season started) and getting on to truly important things. I've just not heard that team owner insubordination was a real concern for prospective or current sponsors. But I don't know. I would think that ratings, or lack thereof, mean more to them.