schumi's wonderful career

schumi's wonderful career - is going to end on an extremely positive note? Like P4 in some race ? :p :

Ahhhh, the famous 'Schumy Messiah ' vs 'Schumy Cheat' debate. It ranks right up there with the 'Guns / no Guns', Conservative vs Labour, the existence of God and the Chicken and Egg arguments. :D

I think a lot of people believe he was one of the most ruthless and talented drivers to have sat behind a wheel but who acquired a couple of his crowns by cheating; either punting off rivals or illegal cars.

It's pretty unlikely that anyone will change their minds now but don't let that get in the way of a good bun fight.

Schumi has had a wonderful career indeed. So what are we supposed to debate here? :p :

In addition to his past achievements one thing that I find astonishing that he might keep going until the age of 45 in F1 if recent rumours are anything to go by. Perhaps he will make it to 47 - you know, can't be worse than Fangio! :p :

Quite sensational to see Schumacher in such good form at such age, but it looks like there are a few drivers, who are capable of it. So from that point of view Schumi is perhaps like Mario Andretti, who was a frontrunner in IndyCar into his 50's. And I guess, if for some reason Andretti had gone to race in F1 in late 80's (in his late 40's), he wouldn't have been very embarrassing.

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Originally Posted by ioan

Jackie has always been very subjective, or should I say heavily biased?

As opposed to your utterly balanced view?

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Originally Posted by Garry Walker

As another topic got closed based on my exchange with my new-found BFF, captainraiden, but I thought the content of the thread too valuable to waste (LOL), I will post my last message from that thread here, to spark up the debate that might actually have some interesting points.

Eh, the tube steak expert is back with a troll thread. Obvious bait thread is obvious, but well, I'll bite. :p

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Originally Posted by Garry Walker

Let's keep it civil (LOL)

LOL

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Originally Posted by Garry Walker

Schumacher has been faster than Barbie in most races this year.

The fact remains that Nico is still ahead of Schumacher in the points table, just like he was last year. Wasn't it you who naively claimed at MS' return that he will beat Nico Rosberg in his return year? LOL. Thoroughly outclassed. Barbie just has to sort out his racecraft, and he'll put MS in his place back again. Or his race pace this year could also be affected by Pirellis, just as Lewis has been quite sub-par compared to Button during races, and how Webber has struggled against Seb as well.

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Originally Posted by Garry Walker

So mika lost his passion in 1997?

Given that he had extra DNFs and incidents, and the difference in the points table wasn't huge at year end, I'd say it was just a one-off for Mika. DC was thoroughly outclassed the following three years, and that too without a lap-dog contract.

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Originally Posted by Garry Walker

LOL. Mika was nowhere near as good as MS. Unless you want to claim McLaren and Ferrari were equal in 1998?

Yeah, the 1998 Ferrari was an absolute piece of horse poo. But Magic Schumacher almost won the championship in it. Meanwhile, another all-time great, Eddie Irvine, troubled the explosive DC for 3rd place in the driver's table with the same horse poo 1998 Ferrari. How lucky Ferrari really were to have such amazing two drivers!

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Originally Posted by Garry Walker

Ferrari was the only team to bring upgrades and new developments to their car throughout the season?

No, but they brought the most significant upgrades right towards the end when it mattered the most, just when Mclaren were catching up. Besides, you forgot to comment on the fact that Bridgestone also started bringing tyre compounds to races in 2000, which suited Ferrari, which pissed off many teams, and hence the majority jumped when Michelin entered the sport.

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Originally Posted by Garry Walker

1) The accident with Hill was 100% the fault of Damon. There was no room for him, there never was going to be any room for him, yet he stupidly tried to bully his way through.

:laugh: Exhibit A: The most biased a fan can ever be. What was Damon supposed to do behind the limping Benetton? Stay in the tow and ruin his own race? Damon's front left was right alongside Schumacher's sidepod, and he still turned into him. What, his mirrors suddenly stopped working or his brain stopped processing because of the shunt before?

[youtube]gr00HlaK-L0[/youtube]

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Originally Posted by Garry Walker

Yeah, Maldonado the superstar.

Maldonado the GP2 champion, same as Nico Rosberg, the GP2 champion. The difference is one is making a once lap-dog look rather impressive, and the other is making the "greatest" look rather ordinary. :laugh: The difference in Rubens and Michael's age is only 3 years, but I guess Michael is already too old for Formula 1. LMAO.

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Originally Posted by Garry Walker

MS does not use the simulator for the same reason Kimi doesnt - they get sick in it.

Link from a proper and credible source?

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Originally Posted by Garry Walker

Do you think MS is as good now as he was in 2001?

Can't be too bad. He did very well compared to Vettel at ROC last year, didn't he, going against regular drivers. Oh, but when it comes to F1, he is too old. :rolleyes: Do you think Mercedes would still be risking it with a senile has-been just for sponsorship money? I'm pretty sure he passed all the prerequisites and only then made the comeback and thought he could do well. Stop with the excuses. This is the first time he's been on equal footing with a teammate since his Ferrari days, and is being shown the way.

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Originally Posted by Garry Walker

LOL. Like who? Name one.

Kimi Raikkonen. Oh, I don't know, Pastor Maldonado. :p 2010 GP2 champion. Daniel Ricciardo, Paul Di Resta, Kamui Kobayashi. All would make much better use of that seat than MS, and make more sense for the future for Mercedes.

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Originally Posted by Garry Walker

The only thing you have right here is that Michael or no other driver designs the car. Driver has very little to do with the quality of his car, that is up to the engineers.

Yet we have some Schumacher fans (not you) claiming not so long ago that he has a mechanical engineer degree and that he sets up and tweaks the car himself. OMG.

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Originally Posted by Garry Walker

Name examples of those super starts he had in 1994 and 1995 where he overtook many cars at the start? Examples!
The only brilliant start he had was at France in 1994 where he went from 3rd to 1st, but other than that he had plenty of bad starts.

I'm not gonna go Google every start from those years. I have something called "work" to do, you know? IIRC he had some weirdly good starts and amazing traction out of corners, which Senna noticed when following him, and it made his doubts even clearer when he saw his starts. Of course, I do not recall every single race start from 15 years ago, but that doesn't change the fact that that jump from 3rd to 1st wasn't a bit too much.

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Originally Posted by Garry Walker

Were Ferrari punished for it? No.
Was it illegal? No

Were Ferrari investigated for it? Yes.
Did they have to change the bargeboards? Yes.

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Originally Posted by Garry Walker

The one who did the punting was stupid Damon who tried to overtake in a place where it was impossible.

Yeah, Schumacher's helmet was filled with red mist, his mirrors stopped working, and he had skidmarks in his underpants from the previous corner. Oh mein Gott!

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Originally Posted by Garry Walker

Again you keep going on about TC and Benetton having it. Reality is not your friend though. TC was never found on the Benetton, never was there any proof they used it. Do you have proof that they used it? If you dont, then admit you were speaking BS.

F1 News - Grandprix.com > GP Encyclopedia > People > Tad Czapski

BBC - 606 - - A84553077 - Schumacher's Benetton B194 Had LTC Software

1994 Formula One cheating controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Motor Racing: The tarnishing of Benetton: Grand prix's leading team show a united front, but more trauma awaits on the road from the podium to the pits - Richard Williams explains the fall from grace of Formula One's audacious high-flyers - Sport - T

Of course none of these prove a 100% that Benetton were cheating, but the facts are there for everyone to see. They found the hidden option 13 to activate launch control. Why didn't Benetton hand over their access codes to the FIA when Ferrari did? Even Ross Brawn admitted in later interviews of the car having the mysterious option 13. Not only this, Benetton were again to the stewards for an illegal fuel hose and later, ride height.

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Originally Posted by Garry Walker

Do you even know for what?

Illegally overtaking Damon on the parade lap and then ignoring the black flag, and weirdly worn out plank underneath his car suggesting illegal ground effect producing more downforce, was it?

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Originally Posted by Garry Walker

Guess because they knew the disqualification was pure crap and the wrong decision to make.

Yes, because all disqualifications and cheating allegations are born out of thin air and have no technical data supporting them, and FIA are just a bunch of muppets. My barber can do a better job. Why did Ferrari change their bargeboards then?

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Originally Posted by Garry Walker

So Michelin was cheating for over 2 years? That is just disgusting.

Yeah, Bridgestone and Ferrari knew every technical detail for two years, but didn't bother with it until the Michelin teams became competitive and started beating them. Why wasn't this brought to the FIA's attention sooner? Or were they sleeping?

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Originally Posted by Garry Walker

He has been slower in races, faster in qualifying.

Only this year. Last year he was thoroughly bludgeoning the "greatest ever" (LMAO) in qualifying and races. Only recently his race pace is suffering, but he's still owning Schumacher in qualifying, 12-2, and is still ahead in the points table. Who would have thought, a GP2 champion, nobody in F1, easily beating Schumacher. This is the greatest hero stories of our time. They should write a book about it. Oh wait, or maybe Schumacher wasn't this great all along?

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Originally Posted by Garry Walker

F1 is not "other sports".
Sure you can be great at darts even at 60, but F1 is a different kind of sport.

Nobody said anything about darts. Ever heard of UFC, or just MMA in general? Up until a few months ago, Randy Couture, at the age of 48, was mixing it up with guys 20 years his junior. Agreed that he sucked, but he wasn't that great ever anyway, has 10 losses in his career, but he did beat much younger guys. There are other fighters around the same age level that are still doing well in other organizations. At the highest level of MMA, fighters have to train their necks the same was as F1 pilots do, to withstand impact from punches, kicks and knees. The rest of their body is undoubtedly stronger than an F1 driver's. Schumacher's age is just becoming a lousy excuse by his fans who can't seem to digest the fact that 5 of his 7 championships were won in the best car in the field. He was in the right car at the right time, that's it.

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Originally Posted by Garry Walker

MS was teaching a nice lesson to Hamilton at Monza and such blocking should be part of racing. Why bother racing if you just have to give up your place to the guy behind you?

Teaching him how to block like a bitch? The "one move" rule was put into place because of MS' actions. He could have caused a serious accident by moving right in Hamilton's path at those speeds.

As for TC in 1994, having only launch control doesn't mean they didn't have TC. Teams found innovative ways to use LC as TC, even by engaging the pit limiter in corners, so it wouldn't surprise me if Senna was right about the Benetton having TC.

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Originally Posted by Garry Walker

That FIA has moved in to ban such racing only makes me less of an f1 fan. I have missed the last few races and have had zero interest in what is happening in F1 nowadays.

While we don't agree on much, I will say that the current rules are making wheel-to-wheel racing almost impossible, and that is hurting pure racers like Lewis the most.

As for Schumacher, this will only go in circles. His fans will never see him do any wrong, and his detractors, such as moi, will only see pure evil in him. :p We can argue all year long and this thread can have a 100 pages and lots of hits and make Mark a lot of money, but the result would be the same at the end of the day. Opinions won't change. Although I do wish I could engage in the bashfest a bit more, unfortunately duty calls.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

As opposed to your utterly balanced view?

:rotflmao:

Give it a few more years and we could have another thread, 'Schumi's wonderful carer'.

You two were having the same argument here five years ago.

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Originally Posted by Matthew

You two were having the same argument here five years ago.

:laugh: The art of compromise is alive, well and living on this Forum :laugh:

I'm feeling rather old ;)